 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-04-07 01:20
I am a high school clarinet player thats has always played on Vandoren Traditional 3.5s but since I'm getting low on reeds I am thinking I might want to try something else. Unfortunately since I'm a student I don't have the money to go out and buy a different box of every type of reed I want to try ( Rico Grand Concert Evolution, & Reserve, Mitchell Lurie Premium, Gonzales F.O.F, Vandoren V12, Rue Lepic, and Legere Specials) Is there anywhere that will just let me test a ton of different reeds for free or low cost? If not then what do you guys recommend as a step up from the traditionals? I currently play on a Buffet E13 with a Vandoren 5RV mouthpiece and a rovner style ligature. I do lots of different styles of music from jazz, to classical in both a solo and group setting. I also play in marching band where I use my plastic yamaha student horn and either the 5rv or a b45. What is a good reed for all of these? Should I go stronger?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-04-07 01:34
50 years ago, you could give a blast on a reed to try it out. Today, never.
Rico Reserve Classics are more consistent and more reliably good than any other cane reed. Get a couple of #3, 3.5 and 4 and find out what suits you. There's no "right" strength. Everything depends on how it feels to you.
For outdoors, get a Legere. The Vandoren 5rv is short and close, and the B45 is long and open http://www.saxplus.com/vandoren-clarinet-mouthpiece-information.html, so you'll need different reeds for each.
Ken Shaw
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-04-07 06:01
> 50 years ago, you could give a blast on a reed to try it out.
> Today, never.
>
> Rico Reserve Classics are more consistent and more reliably
> good than any other cane reed. Get a couple of #3, 3.5 and 4
> and find out what suits you. There's no "right" strength.
> Everything depends on how it feels to you.
>
> For outdoors, get a Legere. The Vandoren 5rv is short and
> close, and the B45 is long and open
> http://www.saxplus.com/vandoren-clarinet-mouthpiece-information.html,
> so you'll need different reeds for each.
>
> Ken Shaw
Thanks Ken. What about the Reserve Classics makes them so good? If was only able to buy one box what strength would you recommend? In additional to all the praise in some reviews I have read people have reported needing the reed to be clipped to play correctly because its too soft. I have also heard that it has a problem articulating soft dynamics. Have you had these problems? If so what can be done do compensate? Will anyone else support Ken's choice of the Rico's? Ken Shaw wrote:
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-04-07 07:01
as9934 wrote:
> Thanks Ken. What about the Reserve Classics makes them so good?
> If was only able to buy one box what strength would you
> recommend?
To begin with I'm not sure you need a "step up" from traditional Vandorens. They aren't made to be a lower-quality reed than the other Vandoren models. They're made from thinner blanks than 56 Rue, V12 or Reserve Classics. For a long time they were the choice of most pros.
If you want to try a thick blank reed, there are several choices. I know Reserve Classics have a strong following. But there are two basic cuts to choose from. There are the "single cut" reeds, which include Reserve Classics, in which the bark at the beginning (thick end) of the vamp is left rounded or half-moon shaped. There are "double-cut", aka "French cut" and "file-cut" in which the bark is removed in a straight line across the vamp area before the actual vamp is cut. Traditional Vandorens are file-cut, as are V12 and Rico Grand Concert and Gonzalez GD. Rues are single-cut as are Rico Reserve Classic and Gonzalez F.O.F.. Grand Concerts also come in both thin and thick blank models.
With all that variety, it's really not possible to suggest one choice that you will like with any certainty.
The closest reed to a Vandoren Traditional, but with perhaps better consistency, would be Grand Concert Thin Blanks (thin blank, file-cut). Probably the most different from what you're now using is the Reserve Classic (thick blank, single-cut). You really can't do this exploration completely on the cheap. You have to pick a starting point and then live with that first choice until you're ready to buy your next box. You're safest starting with the same strength you use now. But that's another area in which you're going to have to experiment because a 3-1/2 in one is not necessarily equivalent to a 3-1/2 in another.
> In additional to all the praise in some reviews I
> have read people have reported needing the reed to be clipped
> to play correctly because its too soft.
I confess to a prejudice in favor of file-cut vamps. I'm not convinced that the problem with Reserve Classics is that they're too soft. For me they lack some vibrancy, I think, because of the bark that rides sometimes a quarter-inch up the sides of the vamp. But lots of players like them.
> I have also heard that
> it has a problem articulating soft dynamics.
I think you've heard this from players who either generally have trouble articulating soft dynamics or have chosen the wrong reed for their mouthpieces and playing styles. Certainly, the designers of Reserve Classics can articulate on them at any dynamic level or they'd change the design. Mark Nuccio is one of the prominent promoters of these reeds, and I don't hear any problem with his articulation at any dynamic.
If trying at least a few different models out is beyond your finances, it may be best for you to stick with what you already know and wait until you're better able to experiment a little more freely.
Karl
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-04-07 07:13
Ken,
Their was a time when you could test a reed before buying? So....play a few bars and put it back? Wow!
I assume this was discontinued for sanitary reasons/health codes. Correct.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-04-07 07:23
at
http://www.woodwinds.daddario.com/woodwindsReedClarinetBb.Page?ActiveID=4678#
you can find a button in the upper right hand corner that will display a strength compasion chart.
In my version of Microsoft Explorer the image was in large part too far to the left to display in entirety, and would not move.
In my version of Apple's Safari, the image did display cleanly at the bottom of the webpage.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-04-07 07:03
There still are (brick and mortar) music stores that sell single reeds. They often have opened boxes around for those who come to try out instruments.
Not quite the same as try-before-you-buy, but still better than buying a whole box sight unseen.
--
Ben
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-04-07 12:27
Even if you can't find a store that will sell you singles, most manufacturers make them in 2 or 3 packs. All our local stores will sell singles.
Tony F.
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Author: Chrisspr
Date: 2014-04-07 14:06
Mameloks, Manchester circa 1957. I was then at The School of Archtecture, Allsaints almost surrounded if not near drowned in music shops: regretfully all but Mr. Roadhouse's have disapeared, great days , however, I have to add, "Who today wants to think they are buying a reed someone else has sucked and blown", the thought revolts as I am quite sure that the reeds wouldn't be sucked and chucked at today cost.
Chris S.
You never know there just might be a 1939 Selmer BA., Tennor, or a very posh Buffet Clarinette at the local car boot sale for the price of a beer. O'no, now stop dreaming or you might start getting really fussy.
Post Edited (2014-04-07 16:48)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-04-07 10:52
It was great when you could go into Vandoren's-Paris and try out reeds. The din brought about by a dozen clarinetists blowing into their instruments was so deafening that you couldn't tell whether the reeds were any good or not, but the atmosphere was nice and you would meet old friends and make new ones from all around the world. The last reed maker that would let you try out reeds was Chuck Olivieri. Muncy still makes them. Are they any good these days? Chuck was using Australian cane at the end-great stuff. It wasn't the same cane as used by Reeds-Australia, by the way. His reeds would last forever, which is not very commercially viable. Does Muncy use the same cane?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-04-07 15:50
Just a note on the Vandoren 'blue box' (traditional cut). The standard cut Vandorens are just that, a different cut, neither better or worse than the others in their line. Many orchestral players have gravitated to the V12s but that in no way implies the other styles are in any way inferior.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chrisspr
Date: 2014-04-07 17:22
In my early to later years Selmer Soloist reeds came in furry brown boxes and reigned King. Then there was a long pause in my clarinet tenure as my daughter 'pinched' my clarinet. Today in later year resurgence it certainly does seem to be Vandoran who reign and I cannot deny that for me there is no other choice to be made and dependant on which model, V12's, 56's and Traditional's of strength 2.5 - 3 my most probable choice of reed, the one I am most happy with is the model "Traditional - 3", my prime choice I'm sure.
Reeds are today just too expensive to try in hopeful expectation which may well be dashed after 5 min's of blowing. So, the odd squeak from your favourite reed may well be better served by tolerating it and accepting, "Must have nudged that b---y 'd' sharp key again", or some such.
So my advice is stick with the one you have had most success blowing.
Chris S.
You never know there just might be a 1939 Selmer BA., Tennor, or a very posh Buffet Clarinette at the local car boot sale for the price of a beer. O'no, now stop dreaming or you might start getting really fussy.
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2014-04-07 17:57
Would someone please elaborate on what file-cut vs. traditional cut is supposed to do for playing and/or sound?
And thin vs. thick blank?
Thanks.
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
Post Edited (2014-04-07 17:58)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-04-07 14:15
I am still experimenting with reeds, and hope for a day soon when I can put the issue aside for a time. I also struggle with the cost and also inconvenience of trying alternatives. If $ was no object I would have (months or years ago) gotten a comprehensive selection of brands, models, and strengths (cane and synthetic) to try at my leisure. Instead I likely have struggled unnecessarily with various wrong reeds and the music is not where it might have been. Sigh.
I do have a couple of local music stores that sell individual reeds, but mostly only in the most popular brands and strengths (that does make sense). The stores are a bit of a drive- not terrible- but adult daughter has my car much of the time. And the store never seems to have a room available where I can actually try the reeds, so I have to take them home.
Tomorrow I plan a stop at the store (while I'm already out in that general direction) to get a couple of Vandoren blue 2.0's (currently using 2.5), a couple of V12 2.0's, and maybe 5.6 2.0's and/or Rico yellow box #2 (with UPC code on the reed holder, per "Ursa" these are newer better stock). I figure I have to try 2 of anything because of the variability. That will be $15-20, perhaps for nothing- but I need to "exhaust" the plentiful possibilities. And I'm waiting for Musician's Friend to reply to my inquiry last week about 2-packs of Gonzalez FOF and GD, I figure 4 reeds will cost me minimum $15-20. I want to try Forestone and other synthetics, and I contemplate a return to Legere. On and on it goes.
I've actually considered a trip to one of the clarinet conventions solely to maybe be able to try a full gamut of reeds and perhaps settle the issue in one whack. And it might be the cheapest way to do it.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-04-07 20:16)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-04-07 18:54
And just to set off a whole other round of arguments...
If you think you can afford an R13 or other high $ horn, but then can't afford to really find out the right reed and mouthpiece combo to go with it, I say you should be buying an RCP 576 BC and leave yourself plenty of $ for experimentation.
If you then settle on reeds/mouthpiece without spending all that much, you can take the extra $ and go to an R13 later, if you still want to, LOL.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-04-07 14:55)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-04-07 18:54
File-cut in theory frees more of the reed's length to vibrate. I'm not sure what advantage players find in single-cut reeds, because I don't generally play on them, although I have used 56 Rue le pic reeds on a couple of mouthpieces that seemed to like them. But someone who prefers single-cut reeds would be better able to explain their preference.
Thin blanks generally produce a lighter sound, possibly with a more flexible response. Thick blanks have become popular because they tend to produce richer quality.
Of course, much depends on (a) the mouthpiece the reed is attached to, (b) the player's technical approach to embouchure and use of breath and (c) ultimately the feel and sound the player wants and which reeds most facilitate those. There are lots of proponents for all of the available combinations of cut and blank style with much variation in the actual profile of the vamp itself. The choice for each player depends (or should) on what makes it easiest for him to achieve the musical result he's trying to get.
Karl
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2014-04-07 23:10
I wonder if there's an business opportunity here for an enterprising clarinetist to order a stock of reeds and then offer "sampler packs"--let's say, 2 each of three different strengths of a particular reed model--to curious and frustrated clarinetists looking for better reeds.
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-04-08 04:39
Ursa wrote:
> I wonder if there's an business opportunity here for an
> enterprising clarinetist to order a stock of reeds and then
> offer "sampler packs"--let's say, 2 each of three different
> strengths of a particular reed model--to curious and frustrated
> clarinetists looking for better reeds.
That's a really great idea. If somebody wants to get on that I would be one of their first customers.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2014-04-08 04:54
> That's a really great idea. If somebody wants to get on that I
> would be one of their first customers.
Some years back I investigated doing this. By the time I invested in inventory, shipping & handling, and labor I would have to charge significantly more than what people would be willing to pay ...
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-04-08 05:07
So to sum up what I have heard so far there are many different types of reeds: file vs single cut, thick vs thin blank, strength etc. From what I am hearing you guys say, Thick blanks are better because the resonate better and file cut is better because it allows more of the reed to vibrate. This leads me to believe that the Rico Grand Concert Select Thick Blanks are the top choice. Will anyone speak to this choice? What about consistency? How many reeds per box are duds?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-04-08 06:33
Well, it happens that right now those are my first choice. But there are a lot of people buying all the others as well. And you've also had a strong recommendation from Ken for Reserve Classics. Absent any other suggestions from others, it might be worthwhile for you at least to buy a box of each of those and compare them. You'll then have good quality examples of three types - thick blank single-cut (Reserve Classics), Thick blank file-cut (Grand Concert Thick) and traditional thickness file-cut (Vandoren traditional). Then you can choose based on your own experience of each type. You should be able to use even your least favorite for some kind of playing, then when you next buy reeds, buy the one *you* prefer.
Karl
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