 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lanie
Date: 2014-03-17 02:59
This might be a weird question, but does anyone actually like playing scales? I always have. I can end up spending an entire hour playing scales and not get bored (I have done this more than once). I just always hear how people hate scales and that they're awful but never hear than anyone else likes them.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-03-17 03:06
Scales can, and should, be played as music. When you go blank, stop and play something you know and love, to get the music engine running again.
Scales can't be played with full concentration for more than 10 or 15 minutes. Play them very slowly - 1 note per metronome beat at 60 or slower, so that you engrave the patterns into your muscle memory.
As Kal Opperman told me, nobody ever won an audition by playing long tones and scales.
Ken Shaw
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Author: wanabe
Date: 2014-03-17 12:14
YES! Yes I do. I'm a brand new beginner and I get a feeling of accomplishment from playing anything on the clarinet. So, for me, getting through an octave of a major scale and back again with each note equal in length and volume is something to be proud of.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-03-17 15:56
I still get that feeling of accomplishment at age 65! I like to warm up by practicing scales in the keys of the pieces I'll practice that day. Yeah, at my age, I already know my scales, but going through the routine again makes me feel more secure, especially if I'm going to sight-read something new. Scale practice, because it's so straightforward, also makes a good way to break in and test a new reed or other equipment.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2014-03-17 16:44
Clair,
That sounds fishy to me ;-)
Rest,
Yes, as a beginner, I do enjoy playing scales.
Mart
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-03-17 12:54
The great Charlie Parker loved scales. He said we should play them as though we were standing on the stage at Carnegie Hall and playing them to a full house.
Every day I go up E (one octave), down F, up F#, down G, up Ab, down A, etc., all the way up without interruption. It's a nice musical way to do scale practice and it keeps you thinking so you're not doing them by rote.
And you can alter it; up F, down F#, etc. etc.
bruno>
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-03-17 17:03
Yes, I enjoy scales AND all the rudimentary exercises since they ARE the building blocks of all (well,most) music.
Actually there IS a story (all apologies to Kal Opperman) of someone winning an audition with scales (though perhaps somewhat apocryphal):
After listening to a long, exhausting series of rather unmusical candidates for a clarinet position in Philadelphia Stokowski was about to throw in the towel, when a young Ignatius Gennusa walks in to audition at the very end of the day. Stokowski being completely over it at this moment merely asks him to play a C major scale, which Iggy does with musicality and rock steady rhythm. Iggy gets the job on the spot.
KNOW YOUR SCALES PEOPLE !!!!!!!
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2014-03-17 21:49
I have come to enjoy them as an integral part of my practice sessions. Full sound, evenness of the scales, fine-tuning my sense of finger position with the instrument all seem to be benefits.
BUT can someone please explain why teachers stress them, and what I'm "supposed to be getting" from playing them? (I once asked my teacher, and he changed the subject!)
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
Post Edited (2014-03-18 01:50)
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Author: Bill G
Date: 2014-03-17 22:00
Those of you who like scales may want to consider the 230- page "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns" by famed musicologist Nicolas Slonimsky. John Coltrane practiced this intensively in developing his style.
Bill G
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-03-17 23:20
Dear Slowoldman,
So "because they are the building blocks of everything we play" is NOT the answer you want to hear?
............Paul Aviles
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Author: MSK
Date: 2014-03-18 00:01
I don't mind scales, but "like" is definitely to strong a compliment. If given the choice, I would take them any day over certain pieces of music I dislike, but have to learn because it is repertoire or in my next concert...
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-03-18 06:45
Slowoldman said, "BUT can someone please explain why teachers stress them, and what I'm "supposed to be getting" from playing them?"
Andre Segovia was asked at a master class, "But maestro, what's so important about scales?"
Segovia replied, "Scales will solve all your problems."
bruno>
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Author: Lanie
Date: 2014-03-18 06:47
I'm glad to know that some people actually enjoy playing them like I do. I think maybe it isn't so much the scales that I enjoy (although they are awesome(:) I think I just love playing/making music and so it really doesn't matter what I play.:)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-03-18 03:21
Slowoldman -
Scales are the foundation of tonal music. When you learn to recognize a scale by the shape of its notes and then learn to play it as a single gesture, you free your mind to read ahead to recognize similar scale patterns.
Knowing how to read scales and arpeggios in "chunks" (groups of notes) is the basis of music understanding. You create your own tools.
Ken Shaw
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Author: hartt
Date: 2014-03-18 08:51
LUV um.
I'd play slow (no faster than 128 as an 8th note) scales, thirds and their extensions..arpeggios, dominant / diminished 7th's.
My mom would ask when are you going to play music. I would respond with.....I am playing music.
She ceased asking long ago.
Scales and their counterparts are necessary clarinet playing life forms.
One can have fun with them by 'inventing' articulations, rhythms, selected accents when played in legato or even tongued formats.
Russ Dagon, retired Principal of the Milwaukee SO and Professor Emeritus of Clarinet at Northwestern, once gave me a set of the schools required practice sheets. There were handwritten notations of tempos, and articulations. (triplet tonguing was insane)
What sheets were they........Klose pg 123 thru 135.........with 123 thru 128 memorized as well as all M and m scales and thirds in the circle of 5ths format.
The required material at North Texas State Univ is not much different. These are fashioned after the Schmidt studies (available on-line) , require memorization and are considered warmups. Just the 3 forms of Chromatic scales, thirds and arpeggios nearly represent the banality of frustration. How does one accomplish perfecting them.......DEAD SLOW REPETITIONS with a metronome
So much for the importance of scales. Like them or not, they are required material.
My practice break is up, gotta go back and continue practicing scales, really.
dennis
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Author: marcia
Date: 2014-03-18 09:29
No.
But I do play them as part of my warm up (almost) every practise session.
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2014-03-18 15:33
From some of the responses, I guess my question earlier in the thread was poorly constructed.
I recognize that scales are part of everything we play, and are therefore the "building blocks".
What I wondered is how people go about practicing--What skills, concepts, etc. should be kept in mind while practicing scales? How do people approach the practice to get the most benefit for their playing? What are the goals to accomplish before turning the metronome further up? (Or is "faster" not necessarily the goal?)
Thank you.
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
Post Edited (2014-03-18 15:51)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-03-18 16:29
Ah RHYTHM !!!!!
This is a fundamental part of practicing remedial material. In addition to evenness of timbre, evenness of pitch, the key to really fine playing is EVENNESS of pulse.
You are defining the length of time from note to note. So if you are playing quarter notes at a quarter note equalling sixty beats a minute, you are defining one WHOLE second (sounds simple I know). That is to say 1.00 seconds. If you were to play one of those quarters in a measure for .99 seconds, you would be wrong. Or if one of those notes were played 1.01 seconds long, you would still be very wrong. So getting it right is one of the BIG things that you work when drilling fundamentals (scales, arpeggios, interrupted scales, thirds, Kroepsch exercises).
The other aspect of getting the ratio correct from note to note is the aspect of slowing down or speeding up. This is done SYMMETRICALLY to sound good. So taking the above example you slow down (correctly) by increasing the length of sound from note to note in a clear progression such as 1.00, 1.05, 1.10, 1.20 (each note length or defined pulse becomes gradually longer in time). As opposed to something erratic.
And that takes practice.
So LISTEN to yourself as you practice scales. Listen VERY CAREFULLY.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: hartt
Date: 2014-03-18 20:53
slowoldman..........
I believe some, if not many , of your issues have been addressed . However, you last post could perhaps use some direction.
Beyond what Paul shared, some of Larry Guy's series of books will specifically address these concerns.
When practicing scales much 'training' and reinforcement is going on simultaneously.......embouchure, throat and tongue position, hand and finger positions, breath control, sonority of sound, etc. These aspects and more are formulated while practicing scales, thirds, etc.
The goal is not speeding up but rather EVENNESS and consistency. As Paul mentioned and Leon Russiannoff (and other teachers) DRILLED into their students.......RHYTHM. Count, Count,Count.
If Leon perceived a study to be played 1:15 of time, he did not accept 1:14 or 1:16. If played as such, you were told you could not count. (David Hite has etude books wherein each has a specific time indicated)
In one of Eddie Daniel's u-tube videos on finger speed, he discusses fast fingers being a result of 'dead' SLOW, repetitive finger placement as the basis for speed and evenness .
I strongly suggest that you avail yourself to several of Larry Guy's 'workbooks'. (the title's alone will guide you to which ones you might consider) . They are invaluable and are available from on-line retailers such as Gary VanCott, a BB sponsor, and Weiner Music; two that I know of.
As an aside......a friend who, at one time was an accomplished clarinetist, began to study clarinet again after a 10 yr hiatus. The person was fortunate to secure lessons with an internationally renown clarinet professor / player at IU/Jacobs sch of music. For the first six months it was scales and technical studies such as Kroepsch done no faster than a quarter note = 80. The teacher was emphatic about this tempo concept. The individual has since attained a MS and is presently in a Doctorate program.
dennis
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2014-03-18 23:27
As a student, the value of scales to me is to give 'finger memory' for the key of pieces of music I wish to play.
As I understand it, when you have a piece put in front of you with sharps or flats you don't just remember to play a flat or sharp at every place it was at the first bar but you work out what the key is and then rely on finger memory to play the correct notes.
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-03-19 20:13
Here's a case in point. It's true, told to me by Stan Getz's uncle, who was a patient of mine, a sweet guy with a bad heart and a good sense of humor. I often scheduled him as the last patient of the day so he could tell me stories about his nephew.
One day he told me this one; at one point, young Stanley Getz was doing scales and arpeggios 8 hours a day and driving the neighbors crazy. They lived in the Bronx in a walk-up.
Whenever somebody knocked on their door and complained, Getz's mother would tell him, "Play louder, Stanley!"
Now THAT"S a supportive mother!
P.S. Do you think all those hours helped him?
Bruno>
Post Edited (2014-03-20 01:04)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-03-20 01:04
That's a great story.
Is this a little bit like asking a race car driver, "Do you like driving in circles all day?".
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-03-20 04:04
nope. Don't like them. Cause no matter how often I do them, I always can hear my deficiencies and realize how much more improvement I need. Sigh.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2014-03-20 13:36
I'm glad arpeggios were mentioned. They aren't always stressed in private lessons (depending on the teacher) or in school. I'm grateful I had a teacher who was insistent on my learning them. Scales, arpeggios, and interval exercises in all keys are incredibly helpful.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-03-20 18:34
dennis wrote,
>My mom would ask when are you going to play music. I would respond with.....I am playing music.
She ceased asking long ago.
>
Great answer -- and one way to reinforce it is to suggest people listen to the Beethoven Triple Concerto!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2014-04-10 02:28
For several decades when I stopped playing clarinet, I was a bit of a pianophile. I collected classical piano recordings, attended piano recitals, surfed pianophile boards and websites, and read books about pianists. As a group, pianists' approach to scales is far from uniform.
Many great pianists played scales and patterns religiously their entire careers. A good example, Sergei Rachmaninoff, who insisted he had to do so every day.
Others did not. Vladimir Horowitz is an example of someone who was not a scale practicer, though he apparently did work some scales at some times in his career. Horowitz gave classes at one of the big music schools, Curtis or Julliard I think, where he demonstrated that he could play a chromatic scale faster then the students could play a glissando. Horowitz was not above showing off.
But Sviatoslav Richter supposedly never practiced scales at any point in his career, and he was surely one of the most prodigious pianists ever, with a terrific technique. He probably had the largest repertoire; late in his career he claimed to have 200 solo piano recitals in memory, not repeating any piece, which doesn't even count concertos or chamber pieces. Richter, almost from the very beginning, simply tackled the music he wanted to play and worked at it until he got it right.
Another example: one of the greatest technical wizards of all time was pianist Leopold Godowsky. He wrote a number of extraordinarily difficult studies based on the Chopin etudes, which only a handful of pianists since have attempted to perform. Godowsky's technique in old recordings seemed as pure a diamond, and as cold. But, according to his famous pupil, Heinrich Neuhaus:
"Godowsky (. . .) once told us in class that he never practiced scales. Yet he played them with a brilliance, evenness, speed and beauty of tone, which I believe I have never heard excelled. It was a delight to watch those small hands that seemed chiseled out of marble and were incredibly beautiful (as a good thoroughbred racehorse is beautiful, or the body of a magnificent athlete) and see with what simplicity, lightness, ease, logic and, I would say, wisdom, they performed their super-acrobatic task. The main impression was that everything is terribly simple, natural, beautiful and completely effortless. But turn your gaze from his hands to his face, and you see the incredible concentration: eyes with lids covered, the shape of the eyebrows, the forehead, reflect thought, enormous concentration - and nothing else! Then you see immediately what this apparent lightness, this ease, costs; what enormous spiritual energy is required to create it. This is where real technique comes from."
Anyway, among great pianists there's been a broad spectrum of scale practice. Some have been quite compulsive about it, some merely diligent, some sporadic, some did scales only early on, and some supposedly never did at all.
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