 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2012-03-05 09:17
I want to get myself one of the Vandoren m-pieces for a BC and don't know what tip opening would be a good guess for me.
B30 - MS 1.70mm/0.067"
B44 - M 1.84mm/0.072"
B40 - ML 1.93mm/0.076"
I have no opportunity to try before I buy. I'm an amature home musician and I was always happy with Vandoren pieces for any kind of woodwinds.
Isn't B30 too closed for a bass clarinet to play in the second register with strong sound? Won't is close unless using #5 reeds?
Is B40 on the other hand too open for an amature musician without strong lip muscle? I generally avoid open mouthpieces because I can't play them even with softer reeds.
On a Bb clarinet I use Vandoren 5RV-Lyre - ML 1.09mm/0.043" with Vandoren 2.5 traditional reeds and it works for me.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-03-05 09:20
Personally I prefer a mouthpiece for bass that would be somewhat more open than what I use for Bb. A colleague of mine is using a B44 which sounds just about perfect for him and may be my next mouthpiece too.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2012-03-05 15:35
Oh, thank you for the Grabner but my moderate ambitions won't justify it. Vandoren mouthpieces were always good for me and I'm sure I don't use even their capabilities to full potential. I can feel and hear the difference between stock and (good enough for me) Vandoren mp's but that's where my level of proficiency is limited to.
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Author: valoboe
Date: 2012-03-05 15:46
I use a 5 RV and a M-13 on my soprano clarinets and I tried all 3 of the bass clarinet mouthpieces you mentioned and the B-44 felt and played the best.
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Author: William
Date: 2012-03-05 16:03
Your "moderate ambitions" may not justify it, but your improved performance will. The better you play the more you will appreciate music--it's that simple. My Grabner CX_BS mpc is the best I've ever played in terms of basic response and sound in the upper register. Other lesser, but "OK" bass mpces I've played include a Vandoran B45 (which Walter worked on), a Charles Bay and a Pomarico "Jazz" #2. They are all good mouthpieces, but do not rise to the performance my CX_BS allows. Walter has discontinued my mouthpiece but has replaced it with the LB model developed with the help of CSO bass clarinetist, J. Laurie Bloom. Don't sell you "ambitions" short--I'm certainly not "the best" bass clarinetist in the world, but I am *better* with my Grabner--and happier.
To be fair, a lot of bass clarinetist's also like Clark Fobes bass mouthpieces. You can often see them listed for sale on eBay and a number of mail-order music stores. I have not tried them, but would guess that they are far superior to any mass produced mouthpiece on the market--Vandoran and Selmer included.
Both Walter Grabner and Clark Fobes are professional bass clarinetist's and take great pride in their work.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-03-05 16:13
I've yet to meet a Vandoren bass clarinet mouthpiece that I liked. I second the suggestions for Fobes, Grabner and Bay and would add Roger Garrett to that list. Perhaps Borbeck if you can find one.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2012-03-05 16:18
I played on a B40 for a long time, but switched to a Selmer piece when I got a better bass clarinet.
I have an old Selmer D that is excellent. I like Selmer's bass pieces over Vandoren's, but generally Vandoren has better quality control. If you want a good Selmer piece, you have to try a bunch of them.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2012-03-05 18:54
Clark Fobes... I've read a lot of good words about his mouthpieces.
I initially was considering this one: http://www.clarkwfobes.com/images/products/BCL_Nova.jpg
the "Basso Nova" but in the picture above it looks 'twisted' and that put me off because if the "front piece" looks that way what can you expect from a production run?
I've never seen a bad-made Vandoren mp yet. Also I can't quite believe a hand-made mouthpiece can cost the same as a mass-produced one. There must be some corners cut somewhere.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-03-05 19:33
Noverbuf wrote:
>> the "Basso Nova" but in the picture above it looks 'twisted'
> and that put me off because if the "front piece" looks that way
> what can you expect from a production run?
I have one of those. The "twisted" look is most likely due to the lighting used when taking the picture. The mouthpiece is definitely symetrical when viewed in person. It's a pretty good mouthpiece and is a definite improvement over student bass clarinet mouthpieces. It probably isn't as good as Fobes' San Franciso line or any of the other custom bass clarinet mouthpieces mentioned but then it also costs half as much.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-03-05 19:48
Remember that unless bass is your primary instrument, you buy a mouthpiece only once in your life, and you'll have a lifetime of better playing. Once you spend the money, you'll never miss it. Ask for it for Christmas.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-03-06 03:32
Personnaly I really dislike the Vandoren bass mouthpieces but that's me. I don't understand why you can't try them. Most of the mail order stores like Muncy will send you 3-4 to try. That's really the only way you will know what's best for you. Dot it. ESP eddiesclarinet.com (PS. I'm a bass clarinetist)
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-03-06 07:23
I currently own a B44 that's been refaced too many times because for some darn reason the table wants to go convex!!! However, that isn't typical of mouthpieces unless you don't take care of them, and I do, but may have been unfocussed where I was storing it. Nonetheless when it was with the original facing, it was a fantastic mouthpiece. However, I have tried my friends Fobes CF bass clar. mpc and it's amazing. I have heard great things about the Grabner models as well. Definitely give Fobes, Grabner, and Muncy Winds a call to try some of them out. Like Eddie said, you will not know unless you try.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-03-06 07:47
I think most bass clarinet mouthpieces need to be opened a bit. The upper register sure plays better. Depending on the MP's look for a more open one. Some may think I'm out of my mind. Thats a topic for another post!
Heres my reasoning. The bass clarinet reeds are cut shorter.The bark length only. The vamp cut is the same as the sax line. Thats the ONLY difference Rico does. How do I know that? I set up the machines. So since the reeds are made for sax it seems natural to use a wider, more open facing on the bass clarinet MP. You must work with someone that knows how to reface these MP's.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-03-06 14:09
My first bass mouthpiece was a Selmer C** which I won my job in Baltimore on and continued to play for about 40 some years. It was right out of stock, never been touched and I loved it. Then I tried a Selmer C* that was "touched" up, voiced he calls it, by Davd McClune and I switched on a dime. I've been using that now for about 7-8 years. My back up is a Fobes RR facing MP which plays almost excatly like my Selmer C*. When I taught at Peabody I always recommended a student try 3 or 4 C* because I played several of them that played very well without being touched up but they are inconsistant so you have to try several to find the right one. If that didn't work I suggested trying several other fine MPs on my list or sending the best C* to Dave to be voiced better. We all have our own prefences and there are many good ones on the market today. But you have to try them out to find the best fit for you. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2012-03-06 19:56)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2012-03-07 00:38
Disclaimer: I supported a family of four playing bass clarinet for some forty years professionally.
1. I totally agree with Ed Palanker that for symphonic or concert band playing there are many better choices than Vandoren mouthpieces. I find them, in all facings, to be deficient in fundamental sound. I believe this is an internal problem -- not related to the breadth of the tip opening.
2. The idea that all one needs to do to "improve" stock mouthpieces is to further open the tip is, IMO, pure balderdash. It might allow you to produce louder volume, but at the same time it makes it much more difficult to play softly in all registers (at least with an "honest" reed.) If you want to play loudly, by all means go that way; if you want to make music, stick to a moderate tip opening with the appropriate reed strength.
3. Having taught a legion of bass clarinet players over the years, my observation is that the mouthpieces they presented with when they first came to my studio were overwhelmingly -- crap! Even those who came in with Selmer C*'s, which, as noted above, suffer from execrable quality control, could in many instances do better.
4. I'm currently playing on a Roger Garrett Zinner-based mouthpiece which I acquired after my retirement from the National Symphony. Has pretty much the same facing as the Lelandais (faced by the late Robert Miller) with which I played for almost my entire career, but requires a lot less effort. People seem to like the sound of it.
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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2012-03-07 07:05
Thank you for a bunch of interesting posts to read through.
At the top there were a few statements that clearly suggest that a good bass clarinet mouthpiece is more important than a good soprano clarinet mouthpiece. Why is that?
In my understanding the smaller the instrument is the more delicate the MP should be. It's like leaks: on a smaller wind instrument leaks are more noticeable than on a larger instrument.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-03-07 15:53
Noverbuf, that is not true. A good mouthpiece is the most important item for any size clarinet. It's what allowes you to give you your voice outside of your body. Everyone has a voice, just like a singer, but with a wind instrumet it has to be projected into something outside of your body, with a clarinet, it's the mouthpiece. By the way, I've played several very good Selmer C* in my days, it may not be the best mouthpiece of most players but if you find a good one, it can be very good and can easily be voiced by a good mouthpiece person to play excellent, as is the one that I've been using in my professional position for the last 7-8 years or so. A stock C** before that for 40 years. As a matter of fact, when trying many of the other major names mentioned above, I have found all of them, every single make and model, bass clarinet and clarinet moutpieces, to all be inconsistant. One can be free blowing, the next a bit stuffy, the next brighter, the next darker. I've never tried several of any type and found them to be of the same quality. That's why I've always suggested that once a student finds a brand and facing they like they should then order 3-4 of them and choose the best one for them. That's what I've always done with my students and sometimes the C* was indeed the best for a student. ESP ( bass clarinetist in the Baltimore Symphony for 49 years now, going for at least 50 :-)
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2012-03-07 15:55)
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Author: super20bu6
Date: 2012-03-15 11:02
While I've never tried a Vandoren mouthpiece on Bass Clarinet, I have tried one on Bb. It felt stuffy and hard to play for me. I tried the Fobes Debut Bass Clarinet mouthpiece and truly like it....but now that I've increased my Bass Clarinet playing time, I upgraded to the Fobes Basso Nova and will never look back. Great response, easy articulation and a full dynamic range. I use a Rovner Dark ligature. I've tried the BG Revelation ligature but went back to the Rovner Dark after only a week. I currently play on a 33 year old Leblanc wooden bass...but have used the Fobes mouthpiece on my Olds Plastic Bass and other musicians had no idea I was playing a plastic Bass Clarinet. For the money, I say the Fobes is the way to go. I'm no pro, merely a hobbyist and I do like my sound on the Fobes mouthpieces. I use a Fobes Nova on my Contra Alto as well.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-01-26 02:00
for me so far nothing beats my old selmer c*. woodwind b6 steel ebonite from france not NY!. comes in second. next is my overrated clark fobes san fran cf facing. -i expected better here. currently using an older vandoren b44 on my bundy bass for rehearsals. i use the selmer with my just overhauled by dave speg leblanc bass.
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