 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Person4me2
Date: 2011-11-13 18:36
Can someone tell me the most difficult clarinet piece and tell me where to find it online, in sheet music. I think the flight of the bumblebee is pretty difficult, but i already have the sheet music for that. Besides that one tell me more alike difficult pieces, and the links to find the sheet music for Bb clarinet, of the piece. Ok if you help me, a shout out *Thanks* to all those.
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Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2011-11-13 19:02
i dont think theres such a thing as "the most difficult" piece just like theres no "perfect reed" or "perfect musician". Also while the flight of the bumblebee is very technically challenging there is hardly anything to it musically. solo de concours and the debussy rhapsodie are pretty hard though
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-13 21:35
a perfectly played C major scale should fit the bill quite nicely. I can even write it out for you if needed.
as for more thoughts "I would prefer not to" said Bartleby
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-13 23:34
I'd say the most difficult piece of clarinet music is the one you can't play.
Nielsen usually puts me in my place, but there are so many newer pieces incorporating multi-phonics and other such effects that I can't even listen to them let alone play them. When you find your nemesis, you'll KNOW it.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-11-13 23:48
So far, I like Buster's reply best for this guy.
CarlT
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-14 02:16
Buster, you got me laughing on that one!
The most difficult pieces are the one's you can't play? Just a guess.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-11-14 04:25
Marking territory, are we?
Being able to play a high Fb **snicker** or the notes to a difficult piece of music does not necessarily define a good clarinetist. What about tone, musicianship, interpretation, technique, and finesse?
(A good sense of humor helps, too.)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-11-14 05:31
>> I'd say the most difficult piece of clarinet music is the one you can't play. <<
Difficult? It's very easy not to play a piece you can't play. Hmm... now thinking about it, maybe not as easy as you'd think... 
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-14 05:51
clarnibass,
you rock....
and yes, the most difficulty lies in not actually playing the piece that is very easy to not play because you can't play it
???
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-11-14 06:42
I remember as a young lad asking Gervase de Peyer -- who was the hottest thing around at the time, lots of concertos, first clarinet in the LSO -- what was the most difficult piece to play in the orchestra.
"Well, I think Beethoven Fifth is very hard," he said.
Tony
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Author: Vubble3
Date: 2011-11-14 06:57
I say any piece that Martin Frost can't play is hard
Buffet Bb R13 A RC Prestige
buffet chadash and moennig barrels
Lomax classic lig
b40 lyre
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-11-14 08:53
>> a perfectly played C major scale should fit the bill quite nicely. <<
The same C major scale, played imprefect in a specific way, is usually just as hard and sometimes harder
If I actually think what was the most difficult piece I've played, the first thing that jumps to mind is the hardest phisycally, a 70 minute clarinet/piano/contrabass trio where the very end was holding low D on bass clarinet for over 5 minutes... as the English would say, it was bloody hard
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Author: Chris Horril
Date: 2011-11-14 11:13
It depends on whether you are talking about the music or the notes. Generally speaking the easier the notes are, the harder the music is and vice versa.
Chris
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-14 17:01
Beethoven's 'Missa Solemnis' always taxes- and far more mentally than physically.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-11-14 18:40
The most technically difficult piece I've played is Brian Ferneyhough's La Chute D'Icare (The Fall of Icarus).
Recording and score can be heard/seen at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a7fyKqX5Wg
That piece took half a year off my life. The coup de grace however was at a summer residency at which Ferneyhough was teaching. I offered him the recording I made of his piece. He politely refused it. Later I read an interview with him in which he said hearing his music performed in concert holds no interest for him. He wants only to hear a competent runthrough, to see how his mathematical theories worked (Fibonacci series, etc).
(If you visit the Youtube link, do read abigoater's comment in the comments section).
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-11-15 00:45
I'm sweating bullets trying to REALLY slowly work-up Le Tombeau for WWQ by Ravel. MAN that piece annoys me!!!
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2011-11-17 16:13
The late, great violinist Nathan Milstein was once asked about the most difficult piece he had ever performed. "The next one," he answered.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-11-17 17:45
Flight of the Bumblebee is simple - just chromatic. I learned my chromatic scale on/with it (at 6 months - sounded like crap, was decently quick).
Simon - yeah, that looks REALLY hard!
There are many hard pieces out there, and some for reasons other than they are just a lot of high, fast notes. There's also the musical aspect of it.
I'd put the Corigliano Concerto certainly up there, as there aren't really any performances, nor recordings where EVERY note written is played - it's that hard. I've got several (many actually), including one of the West Coast Premiere which I produced.
Nobody has gotten *all* of the notes, not even Drucker.
Bet Ricardo would 
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2011-11-17 18:05)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-17 21:29
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Nobody has gotten *all* of the notes, not even Drucker.
It should be said that when Mr. Drucker recorded the concerto, Corigliano was still making changes- during the session. Try playin', let alone recording, a work while the ink is still wet on the page. I would not find that very a comforting setting.
I never heard him perform the piece live, so I cannot speak of his latter technical supremacy over the work.
> Bet Ricardo would
Perhaps, perhaps not. Yet, I would take an intellectually inspired live performance- with errors- of any work, by any performer, over a concert (or recording) that contains "technical perfection."
But we all get it- Ricardo is good.
That WE elevate him to a god-like status is ridiculous. (and I don't need a lecture about "Well if you ever sat next to him, you would get it." I have been fortunate to play with musicians as able as he; and they neither required, nor asked for, any praise. Nor publicity.)
Idle idol worship is inanely ridiculous. and for Christs' sake, there is no "Most Difficult" piece.
-Jason
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-11-17 23:43
Jason wrote:
>But we all get it- Ricardo is good.
>
>That WE elevate him to a god-like status is ridiculous. (and I don't need a >lecture about "Well if you ever sat next to him, you would get it." I have >been fortunate to play with musicians as able as he; and they neither >required, nor asked for, any praise. Nor publicity.)
>
>Idle idol worship is inanely ridiculous.
Glad you said this.
I agree entirely--including the point about having played next to players his equal. In terms of a classical career, a lot depends upon being in the right place at the right time, with the right connections--and making the most of your opportunities. Ricardo has obviously done that, but I've known players who had everything but those variables. Idolatry of an individual player leads to many problems, not least of which being that younger player derail their own artistic strengths by trying to be what they're not. Plus it devalues the contribution of equally compelling musicians in a given day and age.
Sidenote: Corigliano told me that getting all the notes in his concerto wasn't the goal of those gestures anyhow--and that he wasn't worried in the least that no one had. Certainly a technically demanding piece, but as far as note perfection is concerned, he had other things in mind.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-18 03:43
And an educated audition committee realizes those things, and does not penalize when a player actually has content beyond note perfection. If the reverse is true, then I shudder what said player would sound like in an actual performance setting. -----"Musicality" is the banal term that is often applied, but it goes much further than any meaning such a narrow-minded term implies.
Listening to how a clarinetist will subtly change the color of the G-A trill (in the "famous long solo from Beethoven's Sixth-2nd movement) without any dynamic shift, or increase in trill speed, speaks much more of their control of the instrument to me than any passage of 'Daphnis' does. Or the lightening in tone color at the end of a Mozart-ian phrase.
Those small things are far more difficult to express to my ear than a performance of the Nielsen Concerto; even when played "musically." (Which I have done, but that is beside the point. I learn't and play'd the piece quite ably on both fronts in 4 weeks. What does that show about my abilities- absolutely nothing!)
It seems that mid-tier orchestras do not follow these rules, but the top-tier ones do- perhaps the reason most cannot understand why said orchestras have many "failed-auditions."
As for perfection in auditions, I tend to scoff at the notion. I took one (and only one) audition for an orchestra- which I will not name. 1st and 2nd rounds, I had small errors and progressed on. In the finals, I played note perfect- and did not get the job. At the time I couldn't comprehend why..... but looking back I cannot fathom how I was so blind; or better--- deaf.
Later, I found myself in an enriching setting in another country; and looking in at the American scene as an outsider, I could see the stupidity with which it runs. I would still be there were it not for extenuating circumstances.
And no, you have probably never heard of me. First, there are no herds of me. Secondly, and probably to my own detriment, I decided to not play the games that need be played to have a career here. Thirdly, I care not. And lastly, I believe I burned all recorded evidence of my playing. Music is not a competition for me. That I was able to play everyday in a live setting with some exceedingly gifted musicians was all I needed- not any idolization that may have inadvertently come my way.
**I am not casting aspersions or insults at Mr. Morales, lest you misunderstand my intentions. But, I do have a problem with the blind devotion that others follow him with.
***That is my problem at the heart of all of this nonsense- and I hope this illustrates why the notion of "A most difficult piece" infuriates me. .......Whomever is "able" to perform it.
-Jason
Eric,
I hope I am still representing N.E. Ohio well; but with my 3rd winter fast approaching after my triumphant return here, I hope my stay will not be too much longer in tenure!
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-11-18 10:34
...guess I'll worry about that if I ever take an audition with the Corigliano on it and a panel hunched menacingly over their scores with Ricardo (or a couple of others I know of) waiting in the wings, sharpening their reed knives.
Who cares what a certain player might or might not do in a hypothetical situation? If Ricardo records the Corigliano, post it and we can all enjoy it. Until then, it doesn't matter.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-11-18 11:46
David, there is a quality to your posts about Ricardo reminiscent of a kid saying "Jeter could do it better" every time a shortstop makes a play. Sometimes the rest of us want to say "Just watch the game."
I've heard that done with a few other clarinetists too (Leister, Sabine Meyer, Marcellus, Wright, Cioffi, Drucker to name a few). Believe me, I don't point it out every time you or others do it. This time, with the hypothetical perfect performance of Corigliano in mind, and Jason's response, I couldn't resist.
I'll probably ignore it the next ten times (but who knows?)
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-11-18 11:59
Eric, right before I opened the email with your reply - I thought the exact same thing. I know it does. (I thought of a hypothetical example a basketball player who never EVER misses a free throw).
I've heard each and every player you listed miss notes in recordings (live concert recordings, etc), but not him.
So if you find one, let me know. We all agree that it's not "all about technique", and that is just a means to an end. He doesn't need a bit of publicity, that wasn't what my post was intended to be.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2011-11-18 12:26)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-11-18 12:32
David--
Don't worry about it--I know you're not giving him publicity, and honestly I wouldn't even mind if you were (why not? he's deserving). In my opinion it's too bad he is even dragged into the discussion: he didn't ask for it, and it has nothing to do with him, in a sense. It has to do with a discussion of art.
And in my opinion, this is art, not heavyweight boxing. There will be no title bout between Ricardo and Sabine, nor a unification match after that vs Martin Frost. I think it impoverishes the discussion to always be pitting players against each other as though that was the goal.
But like I said, these posts happen all the time and I ignore them. No big deal if you want to think that way: just voicing an alternative.
Eric
[edit note: A live, single take, unedited recording of the Corigliano concerto wherein nothing was missed, the soloist projected majestically, and the emotions and tone paintings were nailed would be a monumental acheivement indeed. Let me know when you've got one].
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2011-11-18 12:48)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-11-18 12:54
A young player Emil Johanssen came pretty close!! Was a graduation concert in Sweden with a pro orchestra. Was quote stunning ( musically, technically).
Back in 1980, as a high school junior, II was obsessed with the new work - got the sheet music from asking Bernstein how to (at the time it was available only as a rental from Schirmer), and worked on it. That for Clarinet, and the Finney Concerto for Alto Sax were my "wish" pieces.
Finney much more of a "wish" than the JC
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-18 22:25
David,
I will let Eric speak for himself as he is more than able. Yet, I "jumped all over this" as it speaks to the depressing climate of the American music scene (and I am not referring to economics.)
Also, it should be stated I "jumped all over this" not out of any jealousy, nor degradation, of Mr. Morales: but rather the cult of personality that has arisen around him.
As for him missing a note, well I have not heard every performance of his so I cannot speak. On the "musicality" side- which is often used to apply to/define overly affected performances that come not from an educated impetus- I can hear "errors" at times in everybody's performances---- myself not excluded.
As I view "technical" issues to not truly differ from "musical" issues, missing a note is on the same level of playing said note in an incorrect character. Perhaps a lacking of the correct character, or response that is required, is worse to my ears than technical perfection.
Again, I speak no ill of any one person in particular, but the scene that has arisen as I saw it as a temporary outsider looking in.
-Jason
Post Edited (2011-11-19 01:43)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-11-18 22:42
Jason - yes. No high level player, pretty much anywhere is ever completely happy with their performance, as when they are, *they just let their standards go down*.
That of course includes "said performer".
I was speaking of "getting the notes on the page right". There is something impressive of virtually never missing a note. As Humans, most all of us miss a note on (rare) occasion, it happens.
I can say as a good friend of him that he is as unhappy with performances as any other high level player, even when reviewers, audience, fellow players love it, there's never a "yeah, that was as good as it gets" feeling. I very rarely miss a note (fail to express, etc, etc, etc......), but do all the time compared to him.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-11-18 23:44
MarlboroughMan:
"with the hypothetical perfect performance of Corigliano in mind"
I take issue with this mindset. A notion of a perfect performance, even hypothetical, closes an infinite array of possibilities.
DavidBlumberg:
"No high level player, pretty much anywhere is ever completely happy with their performance, as when they are, *they just let their standards go down*. "
On the complete contrary. For truly good music, it's not a matter of standards, it's a matter of possibilities. Being unhappy with a performance because you missed some note or didn't do something exactly the way you planned misses the big picture entirely. In every moment of music, there are infinite possibilities that can be tweaked, and there are tons of variations even on how it can go right. Picking one right way, then seeing another right way it could have gone, can make you unhappy about how it went, if you focus on how it didn't go rather than how it did.
Having "standards" that can be raised or lowered, I find is a hugely limiting factor. If every moment is aiming for "achieving some standard", you cut off the possibility of reaching beyond it. If, however, each moment aims for "finding something as [effective/elegant/simple/smooth/clear/etc.] as possible", the notion of standards vanishes.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: davyd
Date: 2011-11-19 04:25
Attempting to return to topic:
Any piece can be "difficult", depending on the circumstances. I had played the Holst Eb band suite any number of times, on various clarinet and sax parts, even as conductor. But when it came time to learn the Solo clarinet part for the first time, it was suddenly a new piece, and "difficult".
When I was in 8th grade, I stumbled through the slow movement of K. 581 in a clarinet & piano reduction. At the time, such difficulties as I chose to acknowledge were all technical ones. I've had the opportunity to read the piece a few times since then with string quartet, and while I no longer see the piece as technically "difficult", I have become much more aware of its musical "difficulties".
When I first encountered the "Wood notes" suite of W. G. Still, I found the 1st clarinet daunting in the extreme. But after an hour or so of careful woodshedding, it held no great challenge.
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Author: clarinettist1104
Date: 2011-11-19 13:07
for me - the Mozart Concerto. finger mistakes every time, and making it sound like a Mozart piece, and having perfect phrasing is harder than anything technically challenging.
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Author: Joseph Tomasso
Date: 2011-11-21 03:09
I have to say, the Spohr clarinet concertos (being written more like a concerto for violin) give me a huge run for my money. I worked on the Nielson for a while as well, and although the work contains insanely difficult technical passages, I found the opening of the copland clarinet concerto to test my muscality, phrasing, and "tone" responsibilities quite a bit more. Too many young clarinet players want to test their fingers before they test their minds.
Having said that, the martino set for clarinet is probably the most ambitious thing I have played in public. The technique scared me, but it was the subtle articulation that routinely defeated my spirits. One of these day's i'll sit down to make a real recording....until then it will stay in my library taunting me.
Bachelor of Music, Sax/Clarinet Performance (2005, 06)
Master of Music, Multiple Woodwind Performance (2008)
Master of Music, Oboe Performance (2013)
Gainesville Chamber Orchestra (Clarinet)
University of Florida 2010-2011(Visiting Lecturer in Woodwi
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