 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-07-12 15:23
Maybe this is one of those questions that best belongs on a show like Mythbusters: the Clarinet version.
I've been told, and have suggested to others, that the labels on the pieces of the instrument be lined up at assembly time, just prior to playing. But frankly, my own personal justification for doing so has been more about "it can't hurt," rather than "not doing so can hurt."
I'd be interested in hearing from the 'camp' that says, "yes, do this, because..." --offering their good reason(s) why, as well as the 'camp' that says, "c'mon..it's purely a cosmetic thing, it doesn't affect performance."
Of course, justification may vary among manufacturers and manufacturing dates. This contributor plays an R13 from the 1960's.
Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-07-12 15:59
I don't line mine and I play an R13 from the late 60's.
Of course, I'm not a Mythbuster (official or not), but my sound gets compliments rather frequently....
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Author: GBK
Date: 2011-07-12 16:16
In the Buffet production video, the barrel is attached to the upper joint as they are reamed at the same time. I'm assuming (although it's hard to tell in the video) that the labels are lined up at that time.
Check the boring done at 2'35"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZgoYmbU-w
The bell is added later from the ones ready to be used.
...GBK
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Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2011-07-12 16:58
I always lined mine up mainly because of looks but until someone can convince me it makes a difference lined up or not I will just keep doing it that way
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-07-12 17:17
If nothing else, I thouroughly enjoyed the Buffet video GBK. : - )
It's only complemented by wonderful basset clarinet playing in the background, on Mozart's K622.
I leave you the honors and discretion for placing it in Dave Blumberg's all time best youtube clarinet videos thread--currently back near the top of the list as of this writing, given recent contributions.
I think it enjoys at least honorable mention there, as I've seen other videos in the discussion that I don't consider as good--which isn't to say that there aren't videos in that list I don't also treasure.
I think I've come to the conclusion that as a U.S. citizen, my labels should be lined up with I play domestically, but definitely reversed should I perform in Austrialia (wink).
Thanks!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-07-12 18:37
As the famous English clarinet player Jack Brymer wrote in his Book, "Clarinet" "I think of the barrel as an extension of the mouthpiece rather than part of the clarinet." I totally agree. I think lining up the labels is an old wives tale. What happens when you use an after market bell or barrel as so many professionals do? Rotate them slightly and play on it until you find the "sweet" spot, the spot that sounds and tunes the best and then put a mark on it. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Steve Becraft
Date: 2011-07-12 18:56
I too agree with Ed on this. Finding the sweet spot for your barrel can improve focus, evenness of tone, and intonation inconsistencies (within reason!).
Someone else may be able to speak with authority on this, but I seem to remember hearing that when Kal Opperman made a barrel for someone, he would wait until they found the best rotation for it and then put the little "pearl" piece in the front.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-07-12 22:18
I learned this from Leon Russianoff - he said that the labels should be lined up, or at LEAST find a sweet spot for each part, as it's not a perfect circle.
So lining up the labels at least gives you the same dimensions every time. You can experiment, and put maybe a dot of white out somthat you align the parts the same each time.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: srattle
Date: 2011-07-12 23:00
The labels on my barrels are so worn off, it takes a lot of effort just to see where the label used to be. . .
I've tried many different positions, with many different barrels, and the amount of 'improvement' that the positions change for me doesn't warrant the thought put to lining the barrel up.
At a certain point, I think it's better to make your sound and not fiddle too much with the material.
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2011-07-13 08:24
When I visited the Leblanc factory (France) around 1995 the left and right hand part were joined together before reaming the bore. The two parts were taken from two boxes; they didn't have any relation. However, while putting the two parts together care was taken that the grain of the wood was aligned. The two parts then stayed together during further processing.
When the parts were mounted for hole drilling, again the orientation of the wood was observed: the finger holes should be drilled perpendicular to the rings in the wood.
The barrels and bell were manufactured seperately from the body, but again the grain of the wood was observed before putting the vignette on.
Goal was to have all wood aligned. I was told this would make for better draining of water down the bore, less penetration of water into the wood and a more uniform bore over time because the working of the wood would inevitably lead to the bore becoming more or less oval.
I checked my Opus: the vignettes are all put on the same side of the wood.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-07-13 10:06
And then we all buy after market barrels and bells.
...........................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2011-07-13 10:07)
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2011-07-13 11:42
Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes it doesn't.
B.
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Author: Bret Pimentel
Date: 2011-07-13 12:23
If the bore of (say) the barrel is reamed just slightly off-center, and the bore of (say) the left-hand joint is reamed just slightly off-center, then it makes sense to me that there will be a certain rotation of the barrel at which the bores of the two joints are best aligned. If the two joints are reamed and labeled together, then having the labels aligned ought to be the "sweetest" spot.
However, I haven't been able to detect any difference with certainty, no matter how I rotate my barrels and bells. If lining up your labels makes you believe that you sound better, then you probably will sound better.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-07-13 18:39
A video of the Buffet factory shows the bald headed tester rotating the bells and barrels for best sound prior to the adding of the Buffet logos. On my 2006 R13, the best sound is definitely with the logos up, indicating that they were lined up for best sound before stamping the logos on for that instrument.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-07-13 19:32
Back in the caveman days of my youth, I was told to line up the logos on the bell and barrel --and to connect the bridge mechanism. My '61 Buffet's pamphlet claimed that the best barrel and bell orientations were established before incising the logos. I never questioned that until recently.
I think Brett has part of the answer --that the tenons and bore of a barrel might not be coaxial --so that some rotational orientation of the barrel will best blend the mouthpiece bore with that of the upper joint.
Another part of the story may follow from Luuk's noting the attention paid to getting the wood grain directions all consistent along the length of the horn.
Assuming that you don't have that one in very few instruments taken out of the very center of the log, so that the grain runs around the bore, the growth rings will slash across your instrument's joints. Dimension changes due to thermal expansion, moisture and aging are quite different between along-grain and cross-grain directions. The bore will change from round to oval as the wood shifts.
One "blown out clarinet" hypothesis is that the bore becomes oval as the wood ages.
So, keeping the wood grain aligned would tend to keep the bore shape consistent along the length of the horn.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-07-13 19:54
There is an acoustical reason for possibly rotating the barrel i.e. logos out of alignment.
Whether you are using the barrel that came with your instrument or an "after-market" the bore can become ovoid (it actually twists a bit) despite your best intentions or optimal care. Rotating it slightly, you may be able to find a spot where it "rings" slightly better or tunes truer. (The math of why goes beyond my abilities.)
That being said, I have seen too many clarinetists rotating a barrel in 5 degree increments as if looking for the ever-elusive G-spot. I have found for myself it doesn't make enough of a difference to be quite so nit-picky. (On my current barrels there is so little difference in position that it is almost not worth the time to bother. I just checked N-S-E-W once, one felt a little better and that's that.) And consider this: you find the "sweet-spot", but the barrel slightly shifts dimensions further.... You end up chasing your own tail.
I only ever played one barrel where the position made a dramatic difference. It was an old Moennig my buddy had that I found to be ridiculously ovoid when checked with a telescoping bore gauge (T-type.) But, this was an extreme example.
***I must say I'm with srattle (Sacha is it?) on this one though. I'd rather play or practice something productive (or go golfing) than worry about rotating my barrel.
However, David, I find I get the most glorious tone when I turn my right-hand joint 95 deg. to the right ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif) (and I still uncontrollably have Letterman's bad bit jump into my head whenever I see your last name)
-JH
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Author: GBK
Date: 2011-07-13 20:35
Wes said:
> A video of the Buffet factory shows the bald headed tester
> rotating the bells and barrels for best sound prior to the adding
> of the Buffet logos.
I've watched the video numerous times and never saw what you are referring to.
Please tell me where on the video that section is.
...GBK
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Author: davetrow
Date: 2011-07-13 21:07
My Backun MOBA barrel does sound a bit better with the logo on the bottom (180 degree rotation). I've never tried twisting the barrel around--something new to play with!
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2011-07-13 22:33
My bells and barrels don't have logos on them.
My orchestral desk partner (a disbeliever) witnessed as I rotated each about 5 degrees in increments to find the "ping" position. Then we put a small white nail varnish dot on the best position.. there was a significant difference as we rotated these elements. The persistent myth seemed to work for me...
BobT
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-07-14 13:34
One thing that has always puzzled me about the Buffet clarinet video referenced here:
They clearly use CNC machinery for the majority of the manufacturing process but then when it comes time to ream the bore they do it manually with the workpiece only supported by the operator's hands. Reaming the bore using a lathe would provide much more consistent results with minimal additional effort. Since they almost certainly already have the necessary equipment to do this I wonder why they don't.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-07-28 18:17
Hi GBK!
So far, I can't find the video tape on the Buffet factory. There was a video called "Tree of Life" and perhaps the clarinet testing was on that one. Thus, I'm sorry but I can't verify what I wrote. I'll keep looking but with the advent of DVDs, the video tapes are kind of forgotten.
By the way, I tried to find the "sweet spot" for an "Ivorlon" barrel and could not find it. Perhaps, this indicates a very precise and stable barrel!
Good Wishes!
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2011-07-29 20:10
This is just one of a number of examples of harmless obsessive compulsive behaviour. I line all my clarinet logos up because I like to see the instrument looking neat; I polish the keys for the same reason, and neither affects the sound except perhaps for the psychological reason that I might play better if I feel happy that the instrument is looking smart. Also, I get irritated if I see a CD in a case with the label upside-down: CDs are beautiful artifacts, like clarinets, and deserve to be treated with respect. But the CD sounds the same whether it's been upside down or not.
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Author: whole note
Date: 2011-07-30 18:30
This summer I have had a wonderful time following the lessons in Leon Russianoff's Clarinet Method books and have gained a tremendous amount from the generosity of these two volumes that are filled with clarinet wisdom strategically sequenced into a work of (teaching) art. They are out of print but not hard to find with a few google searches online.
I'm halfway through Book 1 and coincidentally just read Lesson 7: "Trouble-shooting: The Mechanics of the Clarinet." The following paragraph: "Alignment of Bell, Barrel and Upper Joint" (Page 96) directly answers your question:
" Another variable to consider is the proper alignment of the bell on the lower joint and the barrel on the upper. Do not assume (1) that this alignment has no effect on the quality and intonation of your sound, and (2) that the factory has made a perfect alignment. To find the best position for your bell, play as you rotate it about ten percent of its full turning circle; check each such rotation until you find the most satisfactory playing position Once you've done this, mark a dot on the bell and a matching dot on the lower joint. Then do the same for the barrel and the upper joint. By assembling your clarinet the same way Each time you play, you will have eliminated still more variables."
After testing my clarinet, I ended up rotating both my factory bell, and after market barrel.
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