 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-02 20:38
I remember reading somewhere that a hole in the bell would help raise the pitch on 3rd line B.
I have a horn which has a flat B, and I am wondering what other notes could be affected by such a procedure. I am going to talk to my repairman, but was wondering if any one on the board has any experience with this modification.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-02 20:42
This procedure was recently discussed in great length on this very BB. Such a hole is likely to have a greater effect (in my experience, more than twice as much effect) on raising the pitch of the low chalumeau E, as on the low clarion "long" B. It will raise the low chalumeau F slightly, but not nearly as much.
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Author: clarinettist1104
Date: 2011-03-02 20:46
I drilled a hole in my Backun bell not too long ago. It worked well, you can actually do it yourself. Start small and expand the hole, (testing in between drillings) and just be careful. It seemed for me to do more to the low E than the 3rd line B, but mine didn't change the pinky C or the pinky F.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-03-02 21:15
Is this a common thing? I thought the problem that exists generally is the spread of low E and B in the staff. ie low E is flat B in the staff is sharp. You fix one and make the other worse.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: clarinettist1104
Date: 2011-03-02 21:30
actually, acoustically, the air comes out the same way on both notes, so the hole will effect them both equally.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-02 21:34
I had Backun do it on my Backun bell on my Bb clarinet Selmer to raise the pitch on my B, it worked just fine but you have to align the hole with the lowest holes. Works great for me. He drilled the hole and I enlarged it slightly. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-03-02 22:09
In my experements I have drilled holes of various sizes in different places in the bell.
My conclusion is that it will raise the E and B, but the E will rise m o r e than the B.
The F/C will go up ever so slightly, or perhaps not at all.
Salzo, How is your low E?
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-02 23:57
THe low E is pretty well in tune.
I should have mentioned this is an Eb clarinet.
It is quite old, 1920s I believe, and I have had quite a bit of work done to it to correct intonation. THe low right hand blew sharp, and I had the tone holes made smaller. It now plays quite well in tune, and the few notes that are a little off, I can correct using various venting and/or covering. But the middle B is a tad flat, and I cant do anything with that note-except vent with the throat A, but sometimes that is not convenient.
Since it is an Eb, and I had to choose between a low B with an in tune E, or an in tune B with a sharp E, I think I am better off with the better B.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-03-03 02:17
I enlarged an already-existing hole in my C clarinet bell to bring up the long B. It doesn't matter that it brought up the low E a lot. I can't remember the last time I had a low E on C clarinet in unison with anyone. However on C clarinet one has scores of unison long Bs with the flute in some Italian operas. Same issue on Eb clarinet; you will encounter more problems with a low long B than a sharp low E.
If you do put a hole in your bell make sure the hole is low enough on the bell. Keep in mind the bottom tenon of the clarinet's lower joint goes into the bell so you have to put the hole low enough on the bell to allow for hole enlargement, if necessary. When you enlarge the hole, you approach the bottom of the tenon socket inside the bell. This was an issue when I had the bell hole enlarged. As we opened the hole, we got too close to the bell's tenon socket and the hole had to be enlarged towards the end of the bell and a bit sideways, but not upwards, resulting in an asymmetrical hole.
(Note that one can raise the pitch of a long B by opening the throat A while playing the long B. This can also help the attack of a soft long B.)
Simon
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-03-03 02:24
Well now I'm really confused....if both notes are low, why not just make the bell shorter!
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-03-03 02:37
That's effectively what you are doing when you drill a hole in the bell. An alternative to drilling a hole in the bell for Eb clarinets is the extension Clark Fobes makes.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-03-03 02:47
To raise the pitch on a pair of Buffet clarinets, a great clarinet tuner shortened the bell about a ring width and it worked fine, long ago. He drilled a hole in the bell of a C clarinet I have for the same purpose, I understand. However,I would prefer not to drill holes in bells if possible.
This same clarinet tuner also raised the pitch of these end notes on clarinets by using a fairly large reamer for enlarging the bottom cone of the bore. A large dowel covered with silicon carbide paper can also be used for enlarging the bottom cone. Modern clarinets seem to have less problems with these notes.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-03 03:15
"Well now I'm really confused....if both notes are low, why not just make the bell shorter!"
Interesting that I have 3 Eb clarinet bells- Two are modern Buffet, the other, which is the one that I use, is a Coesnon. The Coesnon is considerably longer. I figured a shorter bell would raise the pitch-it didn't.
THe clarinet sounds better with the longer Coesnon, so that is the bell that I use on my old buffet.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-03-03 11:37
For an extreme example of a short "bell" check intonation without th bell at all.
BTW re the hole size, there is one thing to watch. A small hole will act as a vent hole and will raise pitch. At some point of enlaring the hole the clarinet will change into "thinking" the hole is now the E/B tone hole. It will no longer act as a "vent hole" to raise pitch but as the main tone hole, then because it is not as big a the tone hole should be, the note will become very stuffy. So with a relatively high on the bell vent hole, make sure not to make too big for this to happen (unless it is so flat that it's ok to make a big tone hole there). Or make a bigger hole relatively at the bottom of the bell, could work good too.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-03-04 02:12
Hi Salzo, My point is that shortening a given bell will raise the pitch.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2011-03-04 05:21
Drill to your heart's content, folks, but realize the horn will be worth about half what it was before you got the drill out. Why not experiment on a second-hand Bundy resinite bbl. or something similar?
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-04 08:06
"Drill to your heart's content, folks, but realize the horn will be worth about half what it was before you got the drill out."
Considering the clarinet has had several keys grinded smaller, cracks pinned, a non matched bell, and several other modifications, it isn't worth much on the trade market in it's current state- but it is a nice playing Eb. Market value of the instrument at this point is irrelevant-my concern is making it play even better.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-03-04 10:34
Salzo,
Since you say that you are not so concerned about the low E, I would suggest having someone cut the bell shorter with a lathe.
The note will be more clear that way. When you drill a hole, the size and placement is very important and it is not something you can change or move, but if you cut a little off the bell, you can check it, and cut a little more, and check again... etc.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-04-18 16:18
I'm considering doing this on my Bb clarinet. What were the acoustical effects of drilling the hole in the bell?
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-04-18 16:34
Is it possible to calculate the position and size of the bell hole, or is this something empirically determined? If so, where should it be located and sized?
Thanks.
Tony F.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-04-18 18:04
Not precisely the same subject, but Portnoy told me he could detect differences in the angular position of a bell.
richard smith
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-04-19 13:09
"Portnoy told me"......If you really have faith in someone's knowledge you can believe almost anything they tell you. Medical doctors know this well.
Bob Draznik
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-04-19 13:14
>> differences in the angular position of a bell. <<
That's very easy as long as the logo is still there
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-04-19 23:08
I thought that Benade felt that one should put alternate holes as far away from each other as possible. This would mean that the best spot for the hole in the bell would be on the left side, but one would likely not know the difference. I talked with him at length about 25 years ago but he did most of the talking.
It would be better to shorten the bell than drill holes if possible, as the resale value would be better, in general. Portnoy was probably referring to the clarinet response differing as the bell is rotated to different angular positions.
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Author: Simon
Date: 2012-04-20 02:50
If this is so true and I am not doubting it that it isn't true, why don't clarinet manufacturers sell their bells with holes in them or sell shorter bells?
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