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Author: clareynette
Date: 2010-09-07 17:01
Does anyone know of any really great ligatures that are made of either solid silver or solid gold?
I am allergic to my bonade silver plated ligature, so I have come to the conclusion that silver or gold plated ligatures are going to end up being more painful than not. I've tried doing general searches online for solid gold/silver ligatures but I have not had terribly good luck so far.
Any recommendations?? My chin would be much obliged!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-07 17:08
Try a shoestring to determine if it's really the ligature and not the reed, the mouthpiece or the mouthpiece cushion.
Normally one doesn't get into contact with the ligature while playing...?
--
Ben
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Author: clareynette
Date: 2010-09-07 17:11
When I wear metal jewelry or a belt with a metal buckle, I develop a rash in that area. Sometimes it takes several hours, sometimes it takes 30 minutes or so.
I end up getting a rash on my chin from my ligature. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a rash and didn't feel like anything, but it itches like CRAZY and then will end up getting raw and hurting, depending on how long I am practicing.
Since I am not planning on letting up on my current practice schedule, I need to find something to fix this. I have been using this particular ligature for a little over a year, and I am afraid that I will end up developing a not-so-attractive scar on my chin, on top of being in constant discomfort.
To answer your questions about other kinds of ligatures, I will admit that I have not really tried too many non-metal ligature models. I used to have a woven one when I first started playing clarinet way back when, but I have really fallen in love with the feel of the metal designs such as the bonade models.
Do you particularly like the fabric or other kinds of ligature models?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-09-07 17:49
I'm not to crazy about the Rovner ligitures, but lots and lots of people are. You may wish to try one of them.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-07 17:50
> Do you particularly like the fabric or other kinds of ligature models?
Er, no. They're just practical and dependable.
What I don't really get is how you'd develop a rash on your chin from the ligature. (I understand the buckle and jewellery thing as it'd come into contact with your skin...but the ligature...?)
(I sometimes rest my stubbly chin on the capped end of the clarinet, but I don't think that's what you're alluding at)
--
Ben
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2010-09-07 18:00
In addition to the Rovner ligatures already mentioned, you might want to try one of the plastic Luyben ligatures. They work well and are very low cost so it's not a big deal if you end up not liking it. I have tried Rovners and the Luyben and I usually prefer the Luyben on my soprano clarinet but continue to use the Rovners on my bass clarinet and on my saxophones.
Post Edited (2010-09-07 19:02)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-09-07 18:07
clareynette said:
"Any recommendations?? My chin would be much obliged!"
I do not think that the ligature should touch your chin. Anyone else commenting on that??
Bay makes a rhodium coated ligature. Fabric, leather, string, and plastic ligatures are out there. Ben Redwine has a new woven one that he likes.
And Bois makes a wooden one.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-09-07 18:51
Well, as far as touching the chin, if the angle is particularly low (a good fulcrum) the ligature may very well come in contact with the chin.
If you can have metal "in proximity" without actually touching, you should try the Vandoren Leather (with the metal plate) which is the most "metal" sounding fabric going. Of course it comes with two other leather "plates" to try out as well. With this ligature you can also buy the optional leather cap - a wonderful option even if you were to have had no allergies.
Aside from that, a more expensive ligature, I would strongly recommend the Rovner Light ( very reasonably priced ligature at $21 US dollars or so). Though all fabric which sometimes offers a more subdued response, this one is quite nimble, certainly more so than the "Dark" version.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2010-09-07 19:05
I use a BG Super Revelation. It's fabric with two gold rails on the inside, against the reed. I'm not sure if it's solid gold or gold plated, but if it's solid that might be a good one to try.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-07 20:24
If you're allergic to silver or for some reason gold, solid silver or gold ligatures (apart from being ridiculously expensive) won't be any better than silver or gold plated ligatures - being made of solid metal won't make any difference apart from the hugely inflated price.
Can you play by holding the clarinet up higher so the bell is further away from you (at a 45º angle) so the ligature isn't resting on or touching your chin?
Your best bet is to get a fabric ligature (Rovner, BG, etc.) with the screw on top as that will be well away from your chin.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-07 20:55
Or just put some sellotape over the "bad" part of the ligature so that your chin is touching plastic and not metal.
--
Ben
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-09-07 21:25
"I do not think that the ligature should touch your chin. Anyone else commenting on that??"
Agreed.
If you are using a lig that has the screws on top, I don't see how you can touch it with your chin.
There are plastic, fabric, and leather ligs today. In addition to solid silver. I have never seen a lig in solid gold, and I think it would be too soft to be reliable.
Here is a solid silver-
http://www.ishimori-co.com/index.php/product/list_product/194/54/210#218
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-09-07 21:27
And I haven't figured out how going from silver plate to solid silver is going to get rid of any allergy ... if you're allergic to silver ...
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-09-07 21:49
The Ishimori is available at Roberto's
http://www.robertoswinds.com/view_product.php?prod_id=2203
I might consider contacting an allergist to find out what the issue is rather than spending a fortune trying lots of ligatures (especially in precious metals). If I were to have an issue with metals, I would try the Luyben.
Good luck!
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2010-09-07 21:50
It sounds like she has a nickel allergy, which is not uncommon. Is the Bonade ligature showing signs of wear? Perhaps there is a layer of nickel underneath the silver plate. Gold and silver alloys often contain nickel, too. Gold alloy must be at least 18k before it is passive (nonreactive).
Stainless steel often contains nickel, but it is nonreactive. Good luck finding a stainless steel ligature, though.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-09-07 21:54
Michael E. Shultz wrote:
> It sounds like she has a nickel allergy, which is not uncommon.
I know, but from what we read we cannot have any idea. An allergist - or simple elimination of all metals in contact with the skin by using a non-metallic ligature - would be the simplest beginning.
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Author: Dori
Date: 2010-09-07 22:04
Before you play, try lightly coating your problem area with hydrocortizone cream (the brand name is Cortaid, but the store brands are the same thing at a cheaper price), Neosporin, or a medicated lip balm. This bit of protection should allow you to use any ligature you like. It's a relatively inexpensive solution to try before you spend a lot of money on new ligatures or try to change your playing position.
If your chin is already irritated, give it a chance to heal. The above treatments can help.
I sometimes have an allergic reaction to pierced earrings and Neosporin really helps.
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Author: clareynette
Date: 2010-09-07 22:28
To clarify:
I am NOT allergic to gold or silver. I am allergic to Nickel and other closely related metals. The "cheap" metals.
So I am not allergic to a brand new gold or silver plated ligature. It is after the silver wears away or whatever happens that I start having issues. I am allergic enough that it does not have to be in direct physical contact all the time for me to have a reaction if it is REALLY close, like a normal screwed ligature.
And I usually do not have issues if I am playing for a very short amount of time a day. The problem is that I play MANY hours a day, and cannot afford to take away any practice or playing time to cope with this.
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Author: clareynette
Date: 2010-09-07 22:32
-"I might consider contacting an allergist to find out what the issue is rather than spending a fortune trying lots of ligatures (especially in precious metals)."
I actually have had reactions to metal since I was a baby and developed a rash from the snaps on my pajamas.
I have been to allergists in the past, and also to my dermatologist who gave me some steroid cream to use. But the cream is more like reliever rather than a preventer. It makes it not itch as much after wards, but really does not do much for the irritation as it is happening. I use it anytime I have a reaction to metal, most often for my chin from my ligature and my stomach from my belt.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-09-07 22:35
Bummer. If you want a cheap experiment, get a small strip of velcro. It actually works VERY well for a ligature (I keep one in my case at all times in case someone needs a ligature or my ligature breaks). Otherwise, there are tons of great suggestions above on different brands and models.
Alexi
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Author: dansil
Date: 2010-09-08 00:35
If you're allergic to nickel how on earth do you manage to keep your fingers from developing severe contact dermatitis as the silver plating on your clarinet's keywork will have some nickel in it's alloy similar to the silver plating of a quality silver-plated ligature? Why should your chin/lips manifest contact signs of dermatitis (which is what I presume you suffer) if your fingers don't?
I can't imagine how you could be allergic to any metal just by close proximity and NOT by physical contact. Perhaps your symptoms are due to moisture from your saliva similar to the lip and chin dermatitis children sometimes develop from dummies or drooling or just frequent habitual licking of the lips and just below the lips.
Pure sterling silver or 24k gold ligatures don't exist as far as I can tell AND both are fairly soft materials which may well fall apart under the tension of the ligature screws.
No matter....there are plenty of non-metallic alternative materials used for ligatures including plastic, leather, string (both commercially made and simple, home-made) and wooden. How well they work for you remains to be seen.
a family doctor in Castlemaine, rural Victoria, Australia for the past 30+ years, also a plucked string musician (mandolin, classical guitar) for far too long before discovering the clarinet - what a missed opportunity!
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2010-09-08 00:50
Although the Luyben is not my primary ligature anymore, I have to agree with getting a Luyben lig for a non-metal ligature. Decent all around, especially for the price it's at!
Post Edited (2010-09-08 00:51)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-09-08 01:00
I have used both the Vandoren string (Klassik) ligature,and the Bois Delrin (plastic) ligature. Neither contains any metal whatsoever, allergenic or otherwise.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-09-08 01:17
It does seem strange that one's face would react, but not fingers.
Is it possible that it is an allergy to the reed?
Has the OP tried a Rovner?
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-09-08 02:55
If you really feel you have to use a metal ligature of conventional design, take your ligature of choice to a decent machine shop and have it reproduced in stainless steel, alternatively a manufacturing jeweller could do the same in gold. 22 carat would be soft, but 14 carat would probably work OK. I suspect that the nickel is reacting with the enzymes in the saliva.
Tony F.
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Author: crsbryan
Date: 2010-09-08 03:22
Rovner.
If you must have metal, try an inverted ligature, with the screws on top, so you have more room between your chin and the lig.
There are a ton of non-metalic options. If you want solid silver, you'll probably have to have one made for you.
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Author: kimber
Date: 2010-09-08 11:23
I have a nickel allergy with jewelry (necklaces are the worst for me). Coat the outside of your ligature with a thin layer of clear nail polish in the places you are apt to be touching it...you don't need to do the whole thing. You will need to reapply it over time, but may save your current lig. (I reapply to my metal watchbacks monthly.)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-09-08 14:09
Just a note of sympathy about the nickel allergy. I also have this -- bad! She is right -- even being NEAR something made of base metal will cause an irritation. Snaps on jeans are the worst. They bother me even when I am wearing a shirt tucked in. And I cannot lean my arms on a filing cabinet without a bunch of welts showing up on the places where they touched the metal.
I have wondered about whether the keywork on my clarinet or oboe is problematic, but so far, I don't see any correlation with that. My keys are silver-plated, though.
A very fine clarinetist I know (German by birth and trained in Germany) uses a shoestring ligature. If you can figure out how to do that, your problem would be solved with very little $$.
Susan
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Author: davetrow
Date: 2010-09-08 14:29
You might also try a velcro strap. If you have an electronics store nearby or a hardware store with a good electrical section, look for velcro cable ties.
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-08 15:03
... Or just get a Rovner ligature.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2010-09-11 04:02
as Jeff said above; try the Bois Delrin - one of the simplest and best ligatures on the market.......
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Author: Plonk
Date: 2010-09-12 17:57
I also have a nickel allergy - manifested in reactions to belt buckles and cheap watches for example. My ligature doesn't touch my chin so never had problems with that.
I don't get an allergic reaction from the keys on my clarinet, and I personally think (with no scientific basis) that adding sweat into the equation is what causes the allergy - you don't really get sweaty finger tips, do you.
Anyway, as a solution to cheap watches causing a reaction, I have always followed some advice I found in a teen girls magazine donkey's years ago -
coat the offending metal in clear nail varnish.
When it wears off, recoat. But it will last for ages.
Very cheap, quick and effective.
Post Edited (2010-09-12 17:59)
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Author: maria
Date: 2010-11-12 21:14
I got serious problems quite a while ago on my lips. I´m a professional clarinetist since many years. After several months of waiting for get some tests done at the allergy dept at the hospital, finally 50 different products (several metals, pieces from my mouthpiece, reeds, mouthpiecepatches etc were placed on my back for some day) were tested in this first test. I went back to the hospital yesterday and they saw immediately that got serious allergic reactions from nickel. I´ll have to go back on Monday again. Some results takes more days to develop.
I spoke to a very skilled clarinetseller yesterday. He told me that every ligature that has screws are containing nickel!! He also told med that it doesn´t matter if the clarinet is silverplated, there is always nickel underneeth the silver, and the silver is not that solid so it can prevent the nickel from coming through.
When I touch and play on my instruments, I get nickel into my hands. Then, of course, I have to change/try out reeds, put my toothprotection/cigarettepaper on my teeth, Im touchhing my mouth/lips several times while practicing, rehearsing or performing. My hands are giving all this "****" into my lips, and it has been like this for many years without me knowing that or even thinking about it. I can tell that the reaction on my lips is hell!! If I would put fire on my lips, it would feel the same.
I think it could be the same kind of problem for "clareynette", but since I´m not a doctor I will not say that it is the same issue. But it could be worth to reflect a bit about my story. I hope you get all the best help!! For my sake, it´s about never ever getting in contact with nickel.... seems a bit difficult. And I have to make sure that I never touch my mouth if I get some nickelcontact. I mean, I don´t always notice when I happen to touch my lips. But with the creams I have to use since half a year ago, I have to..
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-11-13 04:54
A manufacturing jeweller should be able to duplicate any ligature you give him in any material you specify. Have you condifered stainless steel?
Tony F.
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2010-11-13 22:13
I liked the Gigliotti ligature. They are inexpensive, plastic, and are based on the Bonade design, so give a similar sound. Only problem is, a student of mine broke one of the plastic screws, and it seems impossible to find a replacement screw.
Lori
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-15 04:24
Is the Gigliotti ligature the plastic one with a big capital "G" marked on it, and sort of grooves along the bands apparently allowing for some room for the reed (and mouthpiece?) to vibrate? If so, I just got one of those (& its mouthpiece) as itcame with an SML clarinet I got from Goodwill online recently. But I've just handed this ligature & cap over to my daughter to use with her clarinet as a back-up; her main ligature will be a shoestring.
The best instructions for how to use a shoestring ligature are found in David Pino's *The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing*, Dover 0-486-40270-3, pp. 19-22. I've been sold on it ever since first trying it; I still find it gives me the best sound of any ligature I've tried. So I've just taught my daughter how do use a shoestring as well.
Klarnetisto
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Author: Reedirect
Date: 2010-11-15 13:06
You are most likely allergic to nickel, which is present in almost every metal alloy. Even low grade gold or silver alloys may contain nickel. A high quality gold plating may therefore do the job to effetively shield the nickel from getting in contact with your skin. A goldsmith can do that for you. Your local clarinet repairmen may also know where to get it plated.
The alternative would be plastic material. Natural rubber, however, can also provoke an allergic reaction because of the latex component although it is highly unlikely that you are sensitive to a hard rubber mouthpiece.
Best
Jo
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Author: timg
Date: 2010-11-15 22:01
Solid gold of high purity is rather soft, and wouldn't be a very suitable material for a ligature. Alloyed gold can be much tougher, but mightn't be non-allergenic.
What about taking your favourite ligature to a jewellers and getting a thick layer of gold plating put on it? Relatively inexpensive, and the plating will be impervious and of very high purity. It will eventually wear around the screw threads, but these can always be re-plated if necessary.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2010-11-16 17:25
I carry an emergency ligature that fits into the smallest corner of my case. I cut one tip off of a shoestring. There are even some reeds for which it actually works better because it can hold a reed securely with minimum tension applied to the reed. That would give you a VERY inexpensive, non-metal ligature to confirm that the ligature is the problem. You may have been diagnosed with an allergy, but I doubt the doctor has confirmed that you actually contact the ligature while playing. In addition, though it would also require reed adjustment, you could try sliding your metal ligature further down the mouthpiece to take it farther from your mouth. The response of any particular reed is clearly impacted by where and how it contacts the rails and table of the mouthpiece. If you try sliding the ligature down, be certain that the back of the reed is absolutely flat. Otherwise, any problems with the reed are likely to be amplified (it will probably already be giving you trouble anyway).
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