 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-04-24 14:09
First time. It's tetotem from Japan.
My clarinet is YL-856. Reform-Bohem system. Using ligature made of strong cloth.
Please tell me your Refhorm-Bohem and other ideas !
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-04-24 16:44
Hi tetotem! I'm Eric from Cleveland, USA.
I too play on Reform-Boehms. My set were made by Fritz Wurlitzer c.1952. I think the Wurlitzer Reform-Boehm is the finest clarinet in the world, in terms of flexibility, power, tone, intonation: everything. I don't have any experience with Yamaha Reform-Boehms, but if they must in some way be based off of the Wurltizers.
I have a few mouthpieces, including an original Fritz Wurlitzer mouthpiece, but the ones I use are Hans Zinner mouthpieces, based off of Fritz Wurlitzer's and made at the request of George Pieterson (they are "Pieterson Model Zinner").
I play Legere German cut reeds and use both a string ligature and Rovner German.
Great to hear from you, and all fans of the Reform-Boehm.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2010-04-24 19:31)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-04-25 05:43
Thank you for your reply, Eric!
Made by Fritz!? What a great instrumetnts. Yes, I think so that all of Reform-Boehm clalinets are based on the Wurlitzer models. My Yamaha is so. But Wurlitzers are so expensive for me, if it's a socondhanded.
To tell the truth, I'm looking for a Reformed in A, of course secondhanded. If you know good shops or other, please teach me via email.
My experienced mouthpieces are Vandren-4, Viotto-L-5 and Yamaha original. Vioto-L-5 is based on Kerl Leister model, but it's bery difficurt to me. I couldn't play it. Viotto-SM(Meiyer model) is best for me. Now.
Thank you again and sorry for my poor English.
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-04-25 12:48
The Yamaha YCL-856 (and 846) isn't strictly a Reform Boehm as such as it doesn't have all the keywork features a true Reform Boehm has. Yamaha categorise it as being a German Boehm as it has the German bore with relatively standard Boehm system keywork (it has the throat Bb mechanism, Acton vent and double F/C key pad cups).
Having said that, a fellow board member has a set of true Yamaha Reform Boehms (whic were a specially ordered set of them) and posted the photos of them on here a while back. The barrels have a socket and tenon (instead of a socket at either end) and the top joint has a socket at the top - plus the extra mechanism on the upper joint for the Ab-Bb, G-Ab and F#-G# trills.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-04-25 17:31
Yes, I think so that YCL-856 is not a true Reforme-Bohem. And my teachers said, "Yamaha is not good. Use H.V. or other" . But I like my YCL-856's sound. So I'll play this until experiencing cheeper one with more beautiful sound.
I'm at my wits end. Because true Reform-Bohem H.V. or other are too expencive. So, if it said fake, I use ceeper one. For cralinet and Klarinette lovers.
Thank you.
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-04-25 19:26
If you're happy with the sound your 856 has and the way it plays for you, then stick with it. If you know of anyone that has a Fritz or Herbert Wurlitzer Reform Boehm, ask if you can compare it to your Yamaha.
I've got the Yamaha 600 series Oehler and although it doesn't have as full a tone as the F. Wurlitzer, it is still a good instrument. Yamaha's 80 and 800 series wind instruments are their top models, so are in direct competition with other top makes (but do command a much more affordable price than the ones they're based on).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-04-27 23:46
tetotem--
Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you: I was out of town for a few days.
My advice is to definitely try to get your hands on a Fritz or Herbert Wurltizer Reform-Boehm, if you can. I'm not sure how many used ones are out there on the market, but a good place to look is the Cherry Valley Music site, run by Charles Stier, who plays Wurlitzers himself and worked as a soloist on the Reform-Boehm.
His site is here:
http://www.cherryvalleymusic.com/charles/wurlitzer.htm
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2012-03-23 14:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-04-28 13:47
Thank you, Chris and MarlboroughMan !!
I'm lokking for H.Wurlitzer. (sorry for my misspelling H.V.) now. And will contunie.
If I find it out and play, and if I can pay for it, I'll buy H.W..
By the way, Do you know about Reformed-Bohem by "Clemens Wurlitzer"?
How sound?
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtaylor
Date: 2010-05-04 19:00
Hello fellow Rb-ers...(not sure that is a word)
Wanted to share my setup with everyone. I play on the Herbert Wurlitzer 185 soloist models A and B-flat with the low f-e vent key. This makes for great intonation adjustments.
Mouthpiece is Wurlitzer 3WZ, a new model I think which plays very well with Vandoren V12 size 3. (Try this moutpiece if you have not already. For playing at A=440 it is very good)
Ligature is a Rovner for reed testing (who wants to winds string all day!!)
and for playing I use the string ligature from Rudolph Pflaumer. This is a thinner "gauge" variety that seems to help with articulation and gives more overtones in the sound.
For those looking for a used set of RBs, Die Holzblaser in Berlin does a large business in used instruments. I know they currently have a Leitner & Krause
set that is very good. I played on it a few months ago...it very good.
Also try Ishimori in Japan, they do a lot of business in RBs clarinets as well...
Cheers
RT
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kenb
Date: 2010-05-06 03:52
Hi Rob,
How does the sound with the 3WZ and V12 compare with your previous set-up?
Ken
HW Reform-Boehm 185 Bb & A
Viotto N1+2, White Master 2.5
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtaylor
Date: 2010-05-06 16:26
Hi Ken,
I went through 7 different mouthpieces with my clarinets over the past 9 years! Mostly wurlitzers,B4, D4, M5 K*...you get the picture I'm sure.
This 3WZ is best of all of them.
The facing and chamber are designed by Zeretske. You may not know that name. He is a mouthpiece maker/adjuster who lives in Berlin the last I heard.
Anyway, all of his work is handmade/finished. With this 3WZ the sound is fuller and rounder and has a lot of overtones. It helped also with the pitch center. a=440 on these instruments can be a challenge and this mouthpiece allows for quicker adjustment in ensemble work and is more even pitch-wise over the entire range of the instrument.
I like the Viottos also that you listed but they are hard to come by now it seems in this country.
Robert
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-05-07 17:02
Thank you Robert,
I want to know your mouthpiece whitch has dark and heavy sound. I'll play sonatas, OP.120 by Brahmes.
Can you advice for me?
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-05-07 17:02
Sorry, duplicate post.
tetotem
Post Edited (2010-05-07 17:04)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtaylor
Date: 2010-05-12 15:13
tetotem--
That's a hard question not knowing too much about the Yamaha instruments you own. My experience with Viottos and whitemaster
reed combinations always gave me a nice but rather "bright" sound.
The best choice for what you are looking for I think is the Wurlitzer B4
mouthpiece. It works well with the whitemaster size 3 and it has a very nice round covered sound. A second choice would be the Wurlitzer M5.
This works well with whitemaster also but I had good luck with Black master too but it can be hard to control in the third partial notes for pitch.
LIke anything, your experience may be different.
Robert
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-05-13 22:03
"I want to know your mouthpiece whitch has dark and heavy sound. I'll play sonatas, OP.120 by Brahmes.
Can you advice for me?"
You should try AW reeds. If you live in Osaka, you can get them at Dolce.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-05-14 12:30
Thank you all, It's tetotem.
I asked the price for Wurlitzer B4. The answer is 25,000 JPY. ( about 269.92 USD, 216.16 EURO ) Is this expensive or right price ?
And I purchased AW reeds Nr.120 and Nr.145. I like Nr.120 for now.
What is your recommended Nr. ?
Yes, I know Dolce. I'll go there next weekend.
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2010-07-16 11:02
Long time, It's tetotem.
Today, I went to Dolce in Osaka.
I tried 20 more, and I bought the H.W. B4.
The sound is very nice to me.
Thank you for your reply, all !
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-06-12 18:19
fernie51296 -
The L-5 is not listed on the site http://www.basdejong.com/mouthpieces.php/en. However, the site says that it shows "the most popular clarinet mouthpiece faces in the Viotto collection."
Presumably they will make a slow-selling model to order. To get the definitive answer, contact them.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2011-09-01 15:10
Hello
Is Yamaha 856 available in USA?
I'm wondering which stores are offering this clarinet.
How much is this clarinet?
Thanks.
Koo Young
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetotem
Date: 2011-11-23 07:40
Unfortunatry, YAMAHA was cloed German-bohem.
Now in Japan, Used YCL-856/846 are sold at Ishimori.
Here is the page.
http://www.ishimori-co.com/index.php/product/display_page/5
A/B♭Set
¥787,500
tetotem
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2011-12-08 13:55
Hello Tetotem!
I played on a YCL-856/846 set between 1989 and 2002, and then switched to a Herbert Wurlitzer 187 set (with added low e/f-correction). I still have the Yamaha's and an easy and affordable way to improve their sound would be to use them with Wurlitzer barrels (which of course can be ordered directly from Wurlitzer). I would say that the degree of improvement would be comparable to that of a poor and good mouthpiece - at least in my experience.
I too have tried a lot of mouthpieces on the Wurlitzers through the years (mostly Wurlitzers own ones, such as M4, M5+, K4* and N1), and until just about two months ago I had settled on a Zinner M3R and Foglietta E* #3 reeds for the Bb-clarinet (thus the same mouthpiece that Yamaha delivers with it's 856/846-clarinets, nowadays called 3MR) and a Viotto N1+2 with Vandoren White Master 2,5 for the A-clarinet.
Then however, I tried out the new Vandoren M30D-mouthpiece ("D" for Deutsche, i.e. German) for a German bore but for regular French kind of reeds. Since then I have used it on the A-clarinet, and in time I will probably use it also on the Bb-clarinet.
On the A-clarinet I found the tuning to be quite equal to that with the Viotto N1+2 (even better in the highest register) and the sound to be less brazen or hoarse and thus clearer - especially in the low and middle register, while the upper register was quite equal.
Also on the Bb-clarinet the sound is generally less edgy and more round than with the Zinner, but at least for now the tuning in the highest register is somewhat troublesome for me - at least the same fingerings that I have used with the Zinner doesn't work very well with the M30D. Anyway, time will still tell where I will end.
Together with the M30D I also obtained one box each of Vandoren's regular, V12 and 56 reeds - all of #3. Until now I have tried 5 pieces of each, and all of the 56's were playable (thus quite remarkable, although some of them had to be cut for their softness), as well as two of the V12's, but none of the regular ones. I will of course continue trying also the rest.
I haven't still tried the new Wurlitzer 3WZ mentioned above (also for regular French reeds), but it will be interesting to compare it some day with the M30D .
Vandoren also have a new B40D model which I haven't tried yet. Their older VD2 for German bore I tried a few years ago, but it wasn't at all in my taste.
If you are going to try the M30D/B40D someday by yourself, please note that you need a special barrel to suite the smaller tenon of a French mouthpiece. Perhaps a quick try will do also with your regular barrels, despite a somewhat loose and short fit of the mouthpiece to the barrel, but at least if you consider settling on a French mouthpiece a special barrel would be recommended (these can also be ordered from Wurlitzer).
Finally I would just like to underline a fact that you no doubt are fully aware of by yourself, namely that since every player is an individual also the kind of equipment that suites one person doesn't necessarily suite someone else. But anyway, when you hear several people recommending something certain, it may at least be worth while trying it out also for yourself. At least that's my own philosophy.
Micke Isotalo (in Sweden)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2013-01-23 17:34
Just a correction to my previous post here above (about a year ago!), if someone still stumbles over this thread.
It concerns the dimensions of the tenon of Vandoren's M30D/B40D mouthpieces. After all, they are probably made to suit a regular German barrel, which also would be quite logical. That's since the length of the tenon is exactly the same as on a German mouthpiece (about 1 mm longer than on a regular French mouthpiece).
I was misled by the fact that the outward diameter of the tenon is the same as on French mouthpieces (it's wider on German mouthpieces). However, the thickness of the cork on the tenon will compensate for this smaller diameter and make a tight enough fit to the barrel.
Thus there is no need for a special barrel suitable for French mouthpieces.
Be careful however not to use these mouthpieces on French barrels. Although the smaller diameter of the tenon allows for it, the cork would then be compressed to such an extent that it looses it's tightness on a German barrel. That's now the case on my M30D :-).
Although the M30D certainly has some good qualities, I'm nowadays back to the Viotto N1+2 mouthpiece, and now on both clarinets. That's the case after extensive comparisons concerning sound quality and using recordings. My preferred reeds are now from Leitner & Kraus (strength 3), with a single screw ligature also from L&K.
Micke Isotalo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lam
Date: 2013-01-24 12:53
Hello Micke,
I play on my L+K wiener bore clarinet with a B40D, as I could not find a right viennese reed+facing combination after years of search. But i always use this mouthpiece to play on my buffet too : ) but as the inner diameter of the B40D is much narrow than my viennese bore clarinet, therefore some of the notes are quite sharp too. Now thinking of solutions to solve this problem, should i send my B40D to Mr.Gleichweit and ask him to copy the mouthpiece with vienesse bore for me ? Thank you so much !
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2013-01-24 21:28
Hi Lam,
Since I don't have personal experience of anything similar to your problem I can't give you reliable advice. Have you tried to ask L&K directly? To me they seem to be very helpful.
Anyway, personally I would think that an enlarging of the bore of any mouthpiece would probably affect also other properties than just intonation. So even if the intonation would become better you could loose other desired properties of that particular mouthpiece.
Neither am I convinced that just an enlarged bore of the mouthpiece itself would fix those intonation problems - but this is also just a personal opinion from my part.
You could of course start a separate thread here about this issue, and hopefully someone other could give you more definite answers.
Micke Isotalo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
