 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ats3216
Date: 2009-10-01 08:33
So i have been debating for nearly a month about which to get....
I have an R13 Prestige right now with a fobes barrel, fobes San Francisco mouthpiece, and a Moba Cocobolo Bell from Backun, but feel that i want an upgrade to either the Tosca or Legacy.
I haven't tried either of them because there are no stores near me that carry these, and ive never tried an instrument by ordering online....
I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts or experience with either or both of these instruments is because im having a really difficult time deciding. I know eventually I will most likely try both to see for myself which one is for me, but I just wanted to get an honest opinion from people who have actually tried one, or both of these clarinets.
Thanks!
Alex
Post Edited (2009-10-01 08:41)
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Author: jcfasanar
Date: 2009-10-01 12:20
Tosca are the best Buffets for me.
Open, transparent tone which you can mold to your style and tone color preferences and situations. Tuning is also excellent. I don't recommend to use any extra barrels or bells. I don't tried the Legacy.
Now i'm switching to a Rossi Reform Boehm (waiting it for the next weeks i hope)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-10-01 12:25
I have tried both, but haven't owned either. My personal opinion from just trying them is the the Legacy is a bit more to my liking- easier to play and more comfortable in the hands. I have no long term experience with wither, so my opinion might change if I did.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-01 13:11
Ok why do you want to get a new clarinet ? Do you have any problems with your R-13 that you think that a new clarinet can solve ? You know many great players get along just fine with clarinets that are 30-50 years old or even older.
Just my two cents of advice then I don't think that the Tosca is worth 2 times as much as a good R-13 or Festival(in USA, Festivals are much more expensive in Europe).
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Author: systemxpert
Date: 2009-10-01 13:44
Its a subjective question that really only you can answer.
I would question why do you want to switch from an R13 Prestige?
Look at it like this way. You have a Lexus and now you considering switching to a BMW or a Mercedes. All 3 cars are excellent....so why change at all?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-01 13:49
If you are in Seattle, as your ISP seems to indicate, why not call Morrie Backun and talk to him directly? You could probably get to his shop in Vancouver in fairly short time, with just a border crossing as an inconvenience. He doesn't sell out of his shop (I don't think), but you certainly might be able to try a Legacy there.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-10-01 14:46)
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2009-10-02 01:43
Come on guys! Lexus versus BMW and Mercedes? I don't know about you all but when I spend fifty thousand dollars on a car, I'd like it to work from mile 1 to 300,000 without a hitch. BMW and Mercedes have about as much promise of holding out in the long haul as Rod Blagojevich had of holding on to the governorship in Illinois...
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-10-02 02:54
JamesOrlandoGarcia said " I'd like it to work from mile 1 to 300,000 without a hitch"
So spill the beans....what would YOU select? Me? I just got a Hyundai.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-10-02 03:14
Hi Alex,
I have tried a Tosca and a Symphonie, and I own a Cadenza. I feel that both the Cadenza and the Symphonie respond a lot better than the Tosca (perhaps it is a fault with the one I tried), and since the Cadenza and Symphonie are lower models of the Legacy, I would think that the Legacy, or even the Symphonie, would be a better choice, both for you and your wallet. But, since I am a high school student, my opinions are probably not worth as much. Anyways, it would be nice to go try them out.
Brian Chau
University of British Columbia Concert Winds
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-10-02 06:08
I've tried both the Tosca and the Legacy (a few of the former, maybe ten, and a couple of the latter). I liked one of them much more than the other. I've read others who prefer the opposite so if I'd choose based on the opinions of those it could be the wrong choice. So you have to try both to see which you like better. But you don't have to try both to see if you find the clarinet you want. To find that, you just have to try the clarinet you want. For example I chose my clarinet from a huge selection of one.
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Author: Pilot
Date: 2009-10-02 07:04
Is there something wrong with your current R13 Prestige? Judging from what the OP has posted I'd say he or she just wants the "prestige" factor in owning such instruments, ironically enough.
I don't mean to sound harsh but if there is nothing wrong with your current setup, why drop almost $6000?
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2009-10-02 08:48
"but feel that i want an upgrade to either the Tosca or Legacy"
Why are you feeling like you want to change ?
The Tosca and Legacy are both great clariets. So is the R13 Prestige.
But you will have to play them and compare their qualities to your R13. You may also want to go back to your original barrel and bell as another comparison. Also maybe try the Buffet RC Prestige as another comparison.
Another option, is maybe talking to a mouthpiece maker and modifying things from that perspective.
For the money you want to spend, it is well worth it to travel somewhere where they have these instruments. Gas (petrol), even an airline ticket is relatively cheap when you add it all up and you'll be much more informed of the various options.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: llamaboy12
Date: 2009-10-05 00:06
like many other posts, i am also confused to why you would want to purchase a new clarinet when you already have such fine equipment? the only possible reason you would want to switch is because you notice big differences from buffet to selmer, or leblanc to rossi, etc. there are people in my studio and around the world who play on old R13's. If they can accomplish all that they have with a $3000 instrument or less, why cant you with a $6000 instrument and $300 barrel? If you have the money, by all means buy as many clarinets as your heart desires, otherwise dont waste your money on the empty promises of a shiny new clarinet.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-05 00:41
I've tried them both and I bought a Selmer Signature. The only way you will ever know is the try several of both because every clarinet plays a bit differently, even the same model. I have a student that has a Tosca, not so hot, but I have a friend that has a set and loves them. Doesn't matter what others think, it's what you think. You may find that either one is as good as what you have now. There's no magic clarinet. They're different for everyone. I hate when someone asks what the best of anything because it's only best for them, not for you. Mouthpiece, barrel, bell, clarinet, reed, ligature, wife, or husband, wine, car, sled, dog, cat, etc. You get it. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-05 01:04
Over 90% of all professional clarinets sold today are Buffets so what does it tell you ?
Well for me the first thing I noticed when comparing Buffet,Selmer and Leblanc was that at first sight Buffet looked better and appeared to have better craftsmanship. Then I've seen a Selmer clarinet crack so badly I never seen a clarinet crack so badly before. Then I read here over a month ago about Selmer disaster. Then when I played them I could only found the ring and projection coupled with good control in Buffet. And I actually did indeed like the Tosca very much but I didn't found it was worth about 1,5 times as much as the Festival that I bought(it was on special offer but I didn't knew until I made up my mind and in the end the Festival was 2 times cheaper than the Tosca).
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-05 21:57
My Selmer is over three years old, never had a crack and the workmanship is fantastic. One on my collogues has a Buffet with three cracks. Another one plays Chadash clarinets and it cracked so many times he had to get a new top joint, and that cracked too. An adult student of mine has a Tosca that had a crack in the first three months. If anyone thinks that Buffets don't crack as much as any other make, they simply don't know much about clarinets. I've seen so many Buffets with cracks I don't have enough fingers and toes to keep count. What does that tell you? Any instrument can crack, period? A lot depends on how one cares for them and breaks them in but as I said, any clarinet can crack. Iceland, I think we've gone through this before. It's like someone that had bad luck with a model car and says they will never buy another, _____ because they're all bad. My Selmer is fantastic, made well, no crack, no problem, and I play it a lot. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-05 22:43
I'm talking about cracks beyond repairing. Well I've only seen 1 Buffet that needed replacement top joint because of a crack but I've seen couple of Selmers that needed a replacement joint. Well I could just tell you this straight(I've told it before but not where I got the story). A repairman with John Myatt in England told my teacher when his upper joint of his Tosca had a massive crack that in 40 years of service he had seen around 5 Buffets that needed a replacement joint due to bad crack but he had seen like 20 or more Selmers that had that bad cracks.
I've looked at close up photos of Some Selmer clarinets at Kessler Music website and to me the quality of the wood is not great. The grain of the wood are wide and not tight and the wood is not as dense as on the professional Buffet that I've seen or even on the photos of the Backun Leblanc clarinets also seen on the Kessler music website although the wood quality on my Buffet Festival appears to be superior to those two brands.
There must be a reason why over 90% of all sold professional clarinets are Buffet. One does not fit all means nothing to me here as Buffet has many models and each piece of wood is different.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-05 22:57
Some symphony players I know have cracked clarinets. One has gone as far as to say that his best clarinets are the ones which have cracked, and he doesn't trust a clarinet that hasn't cracked yet. That may be pushing it. He plays Buffets exclusively. One of his regular instruments has cracked multiple times in various places. He has them fixed and goes on playing.
Cracks happen (or don't).
I had a perfectly fine Leblanc Cadenza which was great when I owned it. I sold it to somebody who didn't take proper care of it, and it cracked for her. She got it repaired and is playing it just fine, now.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-10-05 22:58)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-06 00:46
I own three Buffets, Bb, A and Eb over 40 years old, one Selmer Bb clarinet, 3 years old and one Selmer bass clarinet, over 40 years old. I've never had a crack in any of them. I've seen brand new Buffets with cracks and I've seen many without cracks. Buffet has been the clarinet of choice for the majority of professional clarinet players here in the US for many years but cracks have nothing to do with it. Buffet makes a quality instrument but so does Selmer and Leblanc, as well as some hand crafted ones as well. And guess what, they can all crack. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-06 00:49
I agree, Ed. I hope you didn't assume otherwise from my post above. There are any number of excellent, pro-grade models, both current and discontinued , from Buffet, Selmer Leblanc and others. I was trying to inject a touch of humor, but it may have fallen on its face.
Jeff
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-06 01:06
Ed I'm assuming that Buffet uses more quality wood than other makers or at least than Selmer and Leblanc.
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Author: atasic
Date: 2009-10-06 16:06
I played Buffet Prestige model clarinets for almoust 15 years, I had 6 of them and all of them cracked very bad after only few months of using so I repair them and sold them...
I switch to Selmers 5 years ago ( one set of Signature and Recital)and I am very happy about them........for me, they are so better in any way than any Buffet I have ever tried and they never cracked!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-07 20:58
I'm laughing at the single case the Tosca Bb comes in as I'm typing this! What the flip were they thinking?
How can a clarinet worth nearly £4k come in such a cheap and nasty case? I expect to see a case like that supplied with a cheapo Chinese piece of cack.
The older single case did at least look expensive (like an oboe case with a flared end), but this shiny plastic thing with the fake carbon fibre look finish with a handle at one end has to be a joke!
If I ever bought a Tosca with one of these cases, I'd make sure I left the shop with it in a bag, or left the shop with a bag over my head - not something I'd like to be seen with in public about my person.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-07 21:06
HAHAHA!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-08 10:48
I saw a photo of the new Tosca case and almost fell over laughing. For the prices they are charging, Buffet has a tremendous amount of intestinal fortitude to supply expensive clarinets like that in those hideous cases.
I'm with Chris on this. Actually, I think I would demand a better case if I laid down that much coin for an instrument.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-10-08 13:06)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-08 15:25
What's right with it?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-08 15:27
It looks like something you would find a CSO in. Also, no room to store anything. If I'm paying that kind of money for an instrument, I want a decent case that at least looks like it was designed to house an expensive clarinet, not a lump of plastic. ![[yeah]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley17.gif) This is supposed to be Buffet's top of the line. Treat it that way, BC.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-10-08 15:28)
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Author: claribex
Date: 2009-10-08 18:51
I find the Tosca case is TOTALLY impractical! I have the double case and it has virtually no storage. Also, the shiny plastic outside got totally scratched up the first time I took it out in the car boot with all my music stands/music/spare instruments etc etc
On the other side I have had lots of compliments of it....mostly from violinists I've noticed.....????!
It still a nicer case then the double Prestige leather though
I've since bought a BAM for practicality and the Tosca case is gathering dust in my teaching room...
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2009-10-09 18:11
Personally, I'm long past the phase where I hope to improve my playing by buying equipment.
Anton Stadtler played so beautifully that he inspired Mozart to write K.622. And I'm sure his clarinet was not half half as good as today's instruments.
As far as the Tosca case: what's the deal with storing the Lower Joint and the Bell together? Whose brilliant idea was that?
Bartmann
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-10 18:10
jcfasanar said:
<<Tosca are the best Buffets for me.
Open, transparent tone which you can mold to your style and tone color preferences and situations. Tuning is also excellent. I don't recommend to use any extra barrels or bells. I don't tried the Legacy.>>
then went on to proclaim:
<<Now i'm switching to a Rossi Reform Boehm (waiting it for the next weeks i hope)>>
So, I am wondering, with such a ringing endorsement of Tosca, why ditch the diva? How do you like the Rossi instruments?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-12-10 19:58)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2009-12-10 21:01
What we need is to get the Musafia Case Company to make clarinet cases. Check out their stuff: http://www.musafia.com/
I use them for violin and viola and they are awesome. I've yet to find time to send them a tracing and dimensions of my clarinets so they can make a prototype, but someday soon!
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2009-12-11 03:43
You should also check out the Yamaha CSG. I just bought one, and it is playing beautifully. Even with the Hamilton plating, it was just under $2500 (including sales tax). And it comes with a beautiful case and cover.
David
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2009-12-11 04:06
I recently tried the Tosca, Festival and a Selmer Signature, comparing them to my RC Prestige.
I found I was going in circles. I would be happy with any of them, all three were excellent.
The ideal solution is to have one of each. Your tone could then become more of a reflection of the needs of the music.
Chris O.
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