 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: neil.clarinet
Date: 2009-11-29 20:37
I just got two mouthpieces to try as my Hite D is getting very worn out, though has served me well. Portnoy and Vanodren B45 are what I have. My first reaction is the B45 feel very round, warm, and given my main use these days is orchestra work or teaching it may be the better option. The Portnoy feels more 'full on' somehow, and is not my preference generally. Does this match anyone else's experience? Also I find both need softer reeds than the Hite (blue box 3 as opposed to 3.5).
I also keep hearing about the M13 and all the Lyre mouthpieces, but am not very clear what they all mean. How do these compare with the B45 or Hite?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-11-29 20:54
If you go to the Vandoren website, they have a comparison chart of the facings of various mouthpieces, as well as their suggestions for the appropriate (Vandoren) reeds to use with them.
Jeff
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-11-29 21:14
The M13 is less open than the B45 and may be a better match coming from the Hite. The Lyre designation indicates a slightly longer facing for that same number.
I had found the Portnoy #2 to be a reasonable facing amongst these you mention but yes, the sound is brighter. Notice the fairly flat baffle which contributes to a brighter more immediate sort of sound.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-11-29 21:25
Well, my aging Borbeck needs to be replaced. My teeth aren't straight and neither are the rails any more.
After playing on B45's for a while, it was clear that they were limiting me. I have played on 5RVB Lyre's and a couple of Borbecks for the last 25 years or so.
The cigar box full of mouthpieces came out last week. Working through the box, the Portnoy (not sure what number - it is pretty old) plays nice albeit a little bright, but feels smaller than the Borbeck. I like the 5RV Lyre, but am wrestling to get the pitch down on the throat tones (it is the clarinet, not the piece.) But there is also Woodwind Co. G8 and Larry Combs that both seem OK. Playing a house party next week - will try a couple of them and see what happens. News at 11.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2009-11-29 22:13
Nice report, Ralph.
I have a Portnoy, but no B45 to compare. I really like the Portnoy on my Ridenour, but have settled for a refacing of my Woodwind C7 on my Selmer CT.
Post Edited (2009-11-29 22:21)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-11-30 11:16
Hi,
I play both MPs regularly and still have my original Portnoy BP02 that I got back in the early 1970s. I'm a doubler for shows and play BC and Bb soprano regularly with two different community bands each week so I tend to prefer a more open MP.
Currently I prefer the B45 (it even has a tiny chip in the tip) which has a very nice ringing tone and is pretty reed friendly. The Portnoy has a huge sound and tends to require a little stiffer reed. However, I use VD 3 1/2s and Rico Concert Grand 3 1/2s on both MPs with satisfactory results.
Also in my MP locker are several SWS MPs which are also really great but are a bit more finicky about reeds. I also have some other 5RVLs around and a couple C Crowns that play really well but I always migrate back to the Portnoy or B45.
HRL
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-11-30 12:48
I tried a Portnoy '01, it was an absolute beast. Not to my taste either.
B45 is a well-respected piece for experienced players in an orchestral setting. Blue-box 3.5 is indeed very hard on B45 (but will be quite soft on M13).
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-11-30 15:05
Bassie,
I can't play the BP01 or 03. But originally, Portnoy only had the BP02 out for a long time as I recall.
HRL
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-11-30 17:16
Both mouthpieces are very flexible in terms of sound and tonal production. I would add they both require a good embouchure and a strong sensitivity to getting a decent reed. I think the Portnoy's I tried back in the 80s seemed to have a bit more depth of color than the B45s..however no matter what after a certain point you will decide what is best.
the B45 I think has alot of sound...the B45 13s I find play a bit better in the lower register but not as good in the higher register. Given that they both are pretty similar..didn't Portnoy also play Principal in Philadephia? Maybe I am wrong but he was there for sure in the 30s.
David Dow
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-11-30 20:57
David,
You are correct but I do not remember the exact years. My reference source is Shannon Thompson's doctoral dissertation on the Philadelphia School of Clarinet. I've read the whole thing and really enjoyed it.
Here's the link. Maybe you can get it on inter-library loan.
http://web.me.com/sdrue/Shannon_Thompson/writing.html
Portnoy was interviewed by Shannon several times and his comments are terrific. I know some of the BB memebers studied with him at IU. A great character and a really great player. I met him in the early 70s at the Mid-west Band Clinic as he had just released his mouthpiece.
I think there are some threads about that on this BB.
HRL
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-11-30 23:57
I'm one of those IU students of Bernie's. Don't really have anything new to add - I have several Portnoy MPs 01's, 02's and '03's and I have one B45. I gravitate to the BP02 and the Gennusa GE**. I agree that the Portnoy is brighter, but I do think I get a lot more control and flexibility of color with it. Portnoy was really a great guy and freely communicated with many of us via e-mail pretty much until the end.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-12-01 02:35
Hi Pappy,
As I recall, you and I had a little business exchange on the BP03s that I could not play. I will be in your area more after the first of the year with that university I talked about earlier.
I got some emails from Bernie as well. The classic one was when I tried to buy one of the small stock of Portnoy ligatures he had and his reply was "get a Bonade, it's pretty much the same" which I know is not true. Sadly, I did not save the series of emails which I think he composed on one of those early computer through the TV things (I forget what they were called).
HRL
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-01 03:11
David, Portnoy did play principal in Philly for a short time and then went to Clevland as principal. I worked with him in NY when he was teaching at Julliard and playing in the My Fair Lady show, for seven years. He said it paid well and he could take off whenever he had another gig or recording date or vacation. He was my coach in the National Orchestral Ass. when it was in NY. We did sectionals with him a few times a month. I bought one of his P2s, when they first came out, from him and used it for a year or two. It tended more toward the bright side but not actually bright, just not dark, projected well. Though I never actually played the B45 I've always stocked one for my students and there was a time that many of my students used it because it gave them a warmer sound and was reasonably priced. Though I must say it's been a while since any of my students preferred it.
ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-12-01 17:00
Hank Lehrer wrote:
> Hi Pappy,
>As I recall, you and I had a little business exchange on the BP03s that I >could not play. I will be in your area more after the first of the year with that >university I talked about earlier.
>I got some emails from Bernie as well. The classic one was when I tried to >buy one of the small stock of Portnoy ligatures he had and his reply was >"get a Bonade, it's pretty much the same" which I know is not true. Sadly, I >did not save the series of emails which I think he composed on one of those >early computer through the TV things (I forget what they were called).
>HRL
Yes, he had a "WebTV" device.
Hank, I'll be in touch about your upcoming visit to the great corn flats!
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