 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 2E
Date: 2009-10-23 07:49
Today I was explaining to a non-clarinet player how Backun barrels really change the sound and when paired with Backun mouthpeices theyre even better. The person responded, then why doesn't everyone play Buffet mouthpieces?
An understandable question from a non-clarinet player, though sounds rediculous to us here on the bboard.
This got me thinking about some awesome clarinet products that just dont exist.
Ask yourself the following questions ...
1. Why dont Buffet make awesomely amazing clarinet mouthpieces?
2. What would happen if Vandoren released barrels?
3. Why dont Backun make ligatures?
4. Why wont Tom Ridenour release an Effer!?
5. Why don't Buffet/LeBlanc/Selmer/Yamaha make an extendable clarinet attachment for Bb/A swapping? Like some kind of extreme tuning ring on every joint, perhaps they already have with disasterous results ha who knows.
What do you reckon? Can you think of other mysterious clarinet products from "the big companies" that just dont exist?
*waits for the inevitable joke about consistent reeds ...*
2E.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-10-23 11:23
"1. Why dont Buffet make awesomely amazing clarinet mouthpieces?"
You mean that you DON'T like the mouthpiece that comes with every new Buffet!?!?! ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif) Why ever not????? ![[huh]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie11.gif)
"2. What would happen if Vandoren released barrels?"
50% would not fit on the clarinet, 40% would be passable for those that have bad hearing and 10% would be amazing.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-10-23 11:26
I've always wondered why clarinets aren't made with plateau keys, like flutes, saxes or oboes (or alto/bass clarinets). With open keys, finger placement is critical. One would think the instrument would be more accessible if that part of the technique wasn't as much of an obstacle.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-10-23 12:14
I think the finger placement issue is overstated. Sure, you need to be more precise than with a sax or a closed-hole flute, but it still is a lot easier than eg guitar or violin, especially for those with sausage fingers.
And the tone just isn't the same with plateau keys.
--
Ben
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-10-23 12:19
As for #5, it's been tried. But the tuning relationships between the various toneholes would all be off, each chromatic note's spread getting progressively worse and worse. Wouldn't work.
The different people releasing different products, it's just a cost/effective thing. While I would LOVE to see more options, there are a lot out there already. Maybe the costs of tools, marketing, etc. on just a "chance" that their already established "name" would help it sell, isn't worth it to them. I think it'd be more likely that those companies would outsource or buy another company that has those products and stamp their name on it, provided they are quality enough to not ruin their name.
This is all speculation on my part.
Alexi
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-10-23 12:33
Iceland...not exactly sure what you mean, but I am unaware of any glissing (glissando?) technique that involves not fully covering the toneholes. Disclaimer: I am a hobby player, so perhaps there's something I don't know, but in my definition, a glissando is simply a fast series of notes. Although they go by quickly, I understand that they are true, identifiable notes, and not some sort of "half" note (no pun intended)...like a C partial sharp, where one would partially cover a tone hole.
But to go back to the thread...Vandoren seems to specialize in products that are not made of wood, while Backun does the wood, but not so much the other materials, etc. From a sheer manufacturing perspective, I can see how branching out might require a large investment.
I don't understand the Buffet mouthpiece issue, though. Buffet deals in plastics, so where are the quality mouthpieces? Too hard to garner a little of Vandoren's market share? Perhaps niche manufacturing isn't such a bad thing. Better to have one company specialize in something of quality than to be spread too thinly (perhaps Buffet's mouthpiece problem).
And yes...I would love to see both an extendable clarinet (to make a Bb and A), and a retractable clarinet (to make a Bb a C). My hunch is that if a single clarinet were able to be changed, then the sale of harmony instruments and accessories would suffer...
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2009-10-23 12:43
Am i correct in assuming what many refer to as a gliss is actually a portemento?....as in Rhapsody in Blue opening?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-23 12:44
Re the question about Tom Ridenour making an Eefer....I asked him about that. He said he may in the future, but they're awfully hard to make up to his standards. The people he sources his Lyriques from make eefers, but they didn't want to incorporate his designs into their manufacturing, so he hasn't made any yet. He said that their current design was unacceptable to him.
As to Vandoren barrels... they would have to hire a new, old guy, whose only job would be to place one "really good barrel" into every case of a hundred or so barrels. ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
And Guido from the Buffet Mafia sez..."Youse guys is gonna play what we gives ya. You got a problem wit dat?" And if they made decent mouthpieces, they would probably have to redesign those wretched adjustable thumb rests, too! One thing leads to another...
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-10-23 12:47)
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Author: 2E
Date: 2009-10-23 13:07
hahaha fantastic responses from all. I'm interested to know how disasterous the extendable (and retractable?) clarinet idea was. Must be an acoustic designers nightmare
I wonder why buffet dont make reeds hmm.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-10-23 13:35
2E said:
I wonder why buffet dont make reeds hmm.
When I got my R-13 back in the early 70s, I do recall a reed or two coming with it. I know they weren't Vandorens (if they were, there was nothing identifying them as Vandorens). My memory might be faulty, but I seem to remember these reeds having the Buffet logo. Does anyone else know about this?
Here's the product I'd like to see (perhaps it's been done): Extenders for the right hand pinky keys to make them more accessible for small hands.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-10-23 14:03
Bluesparkle you gliss like in the opening of Rapsody in Blue very fast for the bottom notes and when you hit the register key you start to slide your fingers over the tone holes and pitch the notes lower with your lip and tongue position and slowly higher the tongue and strengthen the lip pressure.
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Author: srattle
Date: 2009-10-23 14:22
an extendable clarinet would be terrible. . .it would take so much longer to change it mid piece. . .There's really no reason to make one instrument that plays a mediocre Bb and A tuning, when you can have 2 great instruments that do the same thing. . .Clarinets are still cheap compared to other instruments, so having 2 isn't really much of a problem.
Anyone who is a hobby musician and can't afford 2 instruments should either just play one, or buy 2 really cheap instruments. . .
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Author: TianL
Date: 2009-10-23 14:31
I read this from somewhere and it has stuck in my mind -- why are the weakest fingers in human (the little fingers) control most number of keys on clarinet? why do the strongest fingers (the middle fingers) only take on one whole??
but i guess it's more of a historical development thing..
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-10-23 15:42
Actually, some really old clarinets (of the 5-key variety) were/are extendable (using a corps de rechange), like this A/Bb model:
http://www.uark.edu/ua/nc/NCCollectionPage/Page/Jehring.htm
(Funny defect in this page, btw--they labeled the frequency in megahertz.)
I'm not really sure why they stopped making clarinets this way; I'm guessing it's probably a lot more complicated to do the same thing with modern keywork or, as Sacha indicated, it just takes too long to make a switch that way.
The closest things to this I've seen in modern clarinet technology are basset extensions for playing Mozart, like this one:
http://www.chadashclarinet.com/Basset.html
My R-13 A (which I bought a year ago) came with a couple of Grand Concert Select Evolution reeds.
They do make plateau-key clarinets for students, by the way. Here's one from WWBW:
http://www.wwbw.com/Vito-7214P-Plateay-Key-Bb-Clarinet-467239-i1417080.wwbw
Besides problems with glissing, there are other reasons why open hole clarinets are better. One is that you can't half-hole a plateau key--a very valuable technique for playing altissimo at soft dynamics. Another is that for certain fingerings (for tuning or tonal purposes, for instance), you may want to push down only the ring and not cover the hole, and you can't do that with plateaus. Yet another is that with holes, you can affect the tuning or sound by how you vent the hole (i.e., how close you hold your finger to the hole); with plateaus, the instrument makes that determination for you.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-10-23 16:13
@TianL:
In my experience the fourth finger (ring finger) is the most difficult to control. Pinkies are surprisingly strong. What you read may have just been dealing with brute strength not independent motion which is more important (IMO) in the pinkies.
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Author: stimsonaa
Date: 2009-10-23 19:56
I did go to middle school with someone who had a plateau keyed clarinet. All the other kiddies were jealous that he didn't have to cover the tone holes. But that was before any of us knew what Rhapsody in Blue was, or Klezmer...
Albert Stimson
Midwest Musical Imports
www.mmimports.com
albert@mmimports.com
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2009-10-23 23:23
regarding Buffet mouthpieces I guess they don't make good ones because they know they'll just be thrown away. It's a shame sort of because they used to make decent mouthpieces Oh about 40 years ago...
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2009-10-24 00:42
And there are several reversed-image pictures which appear to be left-handed clarinets, including the Benny Goodman movie and a Buddy DeFranco album that I have.
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-10-24 05:35
Left-handed clarinets? It's been tried, but as a lefty, I realize that it doesn't make any difference when you have to use both hands equally well to play the instrument. It's sort of like asking for a left-handed piano. Why bother? All you've done is cut down on the resale market for the instrument and guaranteed that the repair shop won't have a replacement part when you need it.
Expandable A-Bb clarinet? Problem is, as the instrument gets bigger or smaller, you need to move all the tone holes in relation to each other and it needs a slightly-different bore diameter; not just to make the horn longer. Otherwise, you could make a Bb clarinet into a bass clarinet just by sticking extension tubes between the joints.
What I really don't understand, though, is why roller keys on clarinets ended after they stopped making Albert system instruments. I also play the bassoon, and I can tell you that there's no such thing as having too many roller keys.
Another good idea that never seemed to catch on is the longer side-Eb key that some of the better Boosey-Hawkes clarinets have. I've played one of them, and it not only had a nice feel to it, but it makes it slightly easier to play that key in a hurry. We use that key a zillion times more often than the other side keys, so there's no reason it has to look just like them.
Post Edited (2009-10-25 15:28)
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Author: 2E
Date: 2009-10-24 07:50
How come vandoren dont make crystal mouthpieces anymore?
I've heard they were about as consistent as their reeds though every once in a while youd come across an absolute gem ...
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Author: srattle
Date: 2009-10-24 10:55
1rooff:
Wurlitzers have both rollers, and a long Eb key. . .
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2009-10-24 15:05
David...... I note that you are delighted with your opposable thumbs...... Would an opposable brain be of any great use? Think of the arguments one could have with oneself to pass the time between practice sessions.. H n' P.
(one of life's product ideas that doesn't exist)
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Author: srattle
Date: 2009-10-24 15:16
I would just be happy with a clarinet that plays in tune. . .
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-10-24 16:30
srattle wrote:
> I would just be happy with a clarinet that plays in tune. . .
Adjust your ears. They just aren't forgiving enough.
--
Ben
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-10-24 16:44
Way back up to TianL:
With age, I am developing some arthritis in some joints. I am one of those with a genetically long middle finger. With that "strong" finger on my left hand I occasionally have trouble arching it enough to get a good seal on the tone hole. At those times, I am frequently tempted to hold that finger up by itself for everyone to see. ;^)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-24 18:27
"I would just be happy with a clarinet that plays in tune. . ."
That's why I got a Lyrique.
Jeff
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Author: tholland
Date: 2009-10-24 19:05
Buffet mafia...now THAT is funny!
Tammy Holland
Returning Lost Clarinetist
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-24 19:45
Hmm....I'd love to have a nice silk swab that doesn't jam in the upper joint of the bore.
Cork grease that doesn't plug the pores of the cork.
Some decent, plant-based bore oil for when I'm working on a wooden clarinet.
Oh wait a minute.....The Doctor sells all of those things! ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif) http://www.doctorsprod.com
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-10-24 20:28)
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2009-10-25 14:55
I'm waiting someone invents a clarinet with keyboard and computerized pad mechanism.
That is,if you press C in your keyboard(with the right hand) the mechanism automatically close/open holes for the C note etc.
All you have to worry about is to adjust reed/embouchre on your mp.
(The left hand is for holding the clarinet and for choosing different fingering options.)
This will cut down the time for learning(or mastering) clarinet to 1/5 of traditional clarinets.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-10-25 15:03
Koo Young Chung wrote:
> I'm waiting someone invents a clarinet with keyboard and
> computerized pad mechanism.
>
> That is,if you press C in your keyboard(with the right hand)
> the mechanism automatically close/open holes for the C note
> etc.
I wanna see you marching with that beast... ;-)
--
Ben
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-10-25 15:33
> Koo Young Chung wrote:
>
> > I'm waiting someone invents a clarinet with keyboard and
> > computerized pad mechanism.
> >
> > That is,if you press C in your keyboard(with the right hand)
> > the mechanism automatically close/open holes for the C note
> > etc.
>
They've got one already, and it even eliminates the bother of having to blow it... It's called an electronic keyboard. my Yamaha keyboard can make about as good a clarinet tone as I get on my instrument (although that's not saying a whole lot...). Or, you can take the final step in the process of simplification and play clarinet recordings on an ipod.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2009-10-25 15:40
To lrooff:
Are you saying you can not tell the difference between the real reed sound and electronic (barely) imitation?
tz.tz
Post Edited (2009-10-25 15:43)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-10-26 00:06
Finding an O-Ring lig on a bot-sold Bb cl, I [finally] tried it out , and am much pleased with its contribution to my tone quality, with reed security . US Patent 4,347.776 has much info on mp sizes as well as its novel patenting descriptions. I matched the upper O-R as their #18 and spent a $2 for a box or 10, and using 2 for reed security was best to me, and I do like my sound as playing along with Riverwalk Jazz on our NPR at 9 pm Fridays and now 6 PM Sundays , sure like Ron Hacket's cl work. Try it all, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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The Clarinet Pages
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