 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2009-09-03 13:53
I'm currently playing on a Vandoren M13 Lyre Profile 88 clarinet mouthpiece. I'm using V12 #3.5 reeds. I also have a Moening barrel of standard length. My clarinet is a 2-year-old R13.
I like the general sound I'm getting, but I'm playing sharp. I do not believe that I am biting on the reed/mouthpiece. I believe that I saw a while back an article talking about my mouthpiece playing sharp. But I can't find the article. So I have 3 questions:
1) Does anyone have information on intonation problems/idiosyscrasies for this mouthpiece?
2) If I go to a longer barrel, what are the downsides?
3) Might there be another mouthpiece similar to this one that I would like? I like the closed mouthpiece and I want the classical sound.
Thanks
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-09-03 14:09
1) The mouthpiece (because it's a 13 series) plays LOW if anything. Compared to other mouthpieces.
2) If you find it was something in you embouchure or voicing that made you sharp, you wouldn't need this barrel anymore.
3) Any of the custom makers make close faced mouthpieces. However, vandoren 13 series mouthpieces tend to play the lowest of all. One could be customized to play slightly lower.
Also, it is normal to pull out at the barrel and middle a little bit after playing for a while. If you play a rehearsal and you're pushed all the way in the WHOLE time, the odds are very good that you've gotten sharper and sharper, or that you started out flat.
Hope this helps some.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-09-03 14:15
Well what notes are most out of tune ? If you are mostly sharp on e/b, f/c, g/d twelfths in the lower joint but the c/g, d/a, e,/b and f /c twelfths in the upper joint are low and maybe the throat tones too then simply pulling out in the middle between upper and lower joint will help.
Pulling out or getting a longer barrel affects the notes closest to the barrel,the throat tones the most and also the c/g, d/a, e/b and f/c twelfths much more than the twelfths in the lower joint. That's why pulling out the barrel much more than 2-3mm is not a good thing.
Try to pull out the barrel until the throat tones are satisfactory and then if the tuning b is still too sharp to pull out between the joints.
This is why it's so important to not only tune the b or c tuning notes but also to check out the throat tones. It's even more important on the A clarinet.
Hope this helps.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-09-03 16:11
I don't really see that "bstutsman" claims to have a Series 13.
The M13 is a specific facing in the line up, it is available in both the Series 13 and NON series 13 tone chamber models as far as I know.
So............. if you move from a "flatter mouthpiece" (and there are PLENTY of those around) to a Vandoren that is not designated "13 Series" (I believes that is a number 13 in an oval off to one side of the table), then you would experience "sharpness."
You can do a little with embouchure and voicing to bring that down but pulling out a bit will clear that right up. Personally I prefer having some "room at the top" to adjust pitch easier. If you're pitch sags low and you're pushed in all the way, there is NOTHING you can do.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: vin
Date: 2009-09-03 16:52
The 13 series is "American" pitch A=440. Although many people have asked Vandoren to make the M13 (according to Vandoren representative David Gould), the M13 still only comes in the 13 series. While the M15 comes in non-13 (A=442) and 13 series, the M13 and the M13Lyre only come in American pitch (13 series) at this point.
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Author: stimsonaa
Date: 2009-09-03 20:15
In addition to the (Series 13) M13 lyre, you could try mouthpieces by Richard Hawkins, Clark Fobes, or David Townsend, to name a few. They all make close facing, orchestral type mouthpieces that are excellent, though more expensive than vandorens.
My biases: I sell all of the above (vandoren too though), and play on a Richard Hawkins S.
Albert Stimson
Midwest Musical Imports
www.mmimports.com
albert@mmimports.com
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-09-03 22:13
I must say that after all the great work they have done to improve their product line and the amazing consistency the Vandoren mouthpieces have, they have created the most confusing and goofy way of labeling their product line.
When I have to explain to students and their parents that they must buy an M13 (13 series) so that they will be playing at A=440, they regularly come back with the wrong item.
In addition the folks at WWBW have no clue that there are different pitches (even though the web site does).
Why not just use the term 440 or 442 and keep the M13, M15 terminology?
Whose bright idea was it to use the "13" to denote 440 pitch?
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-09-04 09:24
> regularly come back with the wrong item
I once tried to buy a B45 Dot Profile 88 mail-order from an EXTREMELY well-respected UK retailer. Took three goes to get the right one... (I ended up keeping the first two 'hostage' while waiting for the correct mpc...! :-D )
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-09-04 09:54
>> The M13 is a specific facing in the line up, it is available in both the Series 13 and NON series 13 tone chamber models as far as I know. <<
I'm pretty sure the M13 is only available as 13 Series.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2009-09-04 13:15
I remember when I switched from a high end custom made mouthpiece to a Vandoren M30 13 Series mouthpiece and I was amazed by the intonation improvements I experienced. Over all the pitch was closer to 440 than it ever had been but certain notes that were extremely sharp were also corrected. B/F# was where it relatively should be and middle of the staff B was much better placed.
I know other people who absolutely cannot play on the 13 series because they will play extremely flat. I think it is great that there are so many options out there that allow us to find what is right for ourselves.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-09-04 16:35
I must have spoken in error. Though I cannot find a comrehensive Vandoren mouthpiece chart (yet), some sellers DO NOT list the M13 among the "regular" Vandoren mouthpieces.
Of course this only deepens the mystery of the original post which may mean that the first mouthpiece (not yet revealed) was a shorter lay than the M13 which allow for more "pitch adjustment" (perhaps).
I'm done guessing.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-09-08 17:59
I find the M15 tends to play too high in the upper register..the Vandoren M30 too flat in the throat register! So there you have it..haven't played the other M13 models yet. For really sharp players I suggest the M30 sometimes.
David Dow
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-09-14 15:21
Of the two I find the M30 plays much more in tune overall than the m15 models. I have not tried the M13 lyres...
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