 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-18 01:11
Our church orchestra director has asked if I would be willing to play bass clarinet. Never even blew through one before, as I have played nothing but Bb's and A's. How hard is this transition, and what obstacles should I expect?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-08-18 01:19
Your facility on bass will likely depend hugely on the state of repair of the bass in question. The instrument is quite a bit less forgiving of minor technical deficiencies. Expect a lot of hardship, relearning, squeaks, and compromises if the horn is not in excellent condition. Expect a fairly smooth and painless transition if it's in good repair.
Bass tends to require a bit more oomph than Bb in order to sound good. If the horn is free-blowing, it's much easier to make the transition, since the new bassist is more confident going to town on it. If the horn is fighting back, the new bassist is more likely to be very cautious and timid on it, which makes the transition much more difficult, as it is not an instrument that responds well to timid playing.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-18 02:11
Check my website and read the bass clarinet page for hints on playing the bass. Most of the difference is in voicing, especially in the clarion register of the animal. You have to make sure the instrument is in good condition, that you have a good mouthpiece, which you only really know once you learn how to play it, sort of a chicken before the egg thing, and a good reed. I would highly suggest that you seek out a professional bass clarinet player and take a few lessons. For some it comes pretty natural, for others it can be very frustrating. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-18 08:16
Playing bass will do wonders to your breathing on soprano. You wouldn't know how much air fits into your lungs until you had to play tied whole notes over 4 or 6 bars. (did anyone say "long tones"?)
My breathing has improved significantly during that winter season on bass.
And yes, be prepared to some frustration with squeaks and grunts in the first few days. I very much hope they let you take the bass home for practicing. One just needs a few days of idle noodling to become one with a new instrument.
Good luck, and you won't regret it!
--
Ben
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2009-08-18 15:59
For me, a recreational sax and clarinet player, the biggest problems in the transition were getting my used bass clarinet in working condition (as discussed above), and wet reeds. I would play on a cane reed about 20 minutes and it would become waterlogged. Switching reeds became an annoying part of playing the thing.
Salvation from my salivating was provided by synthetic reeds from Fibracell and Legere. I have not used a wooden bass clarinet reed in years. I have not had success with synthetic reeds on the soprano clarinet or alto sax, but they work for me on the larger mouthpieces of the bass clarinet and tenor sax.
Another difference that certainly applies in the dry southwest, and which may apply anywhere, is that the neck of the bass acts as a condenser of warm, moist air - which is what you will breathe into the horn. The same process happens in the soprano clarinet, but its moisture naturally drains through the horn. The upward curve of the bass' neck means its moisture is coming back at you. The player can either suck it up (literally) or dump it on the floor. If you choose to dump the excess moisture, a small towel makes an excellent catcher of this water.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-18 17:42
As an occassional bassist I find the clarion odd. You just have to get used to the feel which is much different from soprano.
I also second the Fibracell suggestion. They are very woody sounding and really help in poor atmospheric conditions or when quick doubling is a necessity.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-18 22:28
On my Buffet Prestige low C bass/Grabner CX_BS mouthpiece, I have had good success using a Legere #3 reed. Good sound, even response through the range--low to ultra high--and it lasts the whole gig without going soft. Also, it can sit on the mouthpiece for minutes or hours and still be ready to play without the usual wetting, rubbing, warming up, etc associated with cane reeds. FWIW0--I am awaiting the arrival of the Forestone bass reed, as I use them exclusively on my soprano clarinets for all of my playing venues. Might just as well be consistant...but until they hit the market, I continue to play Legere on my bass clarinet.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-19 12:04
One of the orchestra members is a middle school band director, and he might be able to get a bass for me to play. I just don't really trust its condition after being in the hands of 11-12 year olds. Would it be smart to rent a bass until I know how this is going to work out, or do you think my money would be better spent buying something used?
Also, how often does anyone see the need for alto?
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2009-08-19 12:57
I agree with EEBaum, making sure you have a functioning bass clarinet is key to even sounding remotely good.
Also, a good student mouthpiece set up would help greatly. When I first played bass clarinet in HS, I sounded horrible and thought that maybe I just wasn't cut out for bass. Even though I played Contralto without a problem, bass just didn't work for me! It turned out that the mouthpiece my band director bought was some no-name baddy that ruined bass clarinet for me until I got to college and they realized that I was good at it. A simple cloth ligature helps a lot, as opposed to the generic metal one. The reed won't necessarily be the same thickness as you use on clarinet, I ended up using a size lower than my clarinet reeds.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-19 18:37
Okay, rented a bass that had at least been reviewed by a tech so it should be in playable condition. Doing quite a bit of squeaking in the upper register, mostly because my left hand keeps touching the G# key and opening it slightly. I'll get used to that. I did notice that a throat Bb sounds almost exactly like a B natural with all fingers down. Key structure is different, so I don't know if everything that is supposed to be lifted is up and everything that is supposed to be down is down. Selmer case, but no markings on the horn.
Also having angle difficulties. Do most players play bass to the side like a bassoon or in the middle like a Bb clarinet?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-19 23:34
Bluesparkle wrote:
> Also having angle difficulties. Do most players play bass to
> the side like a bassoon or in the middle like a Bb clarinet?
Dunno about "most" players - I have it between my legs, slightly tilted forward (ie the bell somewhat under the chair) so that the mouthpiece is at a comfortable angle.
--
Ben
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-20 02:06
Okay, had a decent rehearsal with the "new" bass and I'm much more accustomed to it than even an hour before. Gotta get a neck strap first thing. Also gotta figure out how to tune it. When I pulled out at the neck past a certain point, I lost the low notes. Got an octave and maybe a third higher than what I was supposed to play (overtone)? Thought I had a leak in a pad somewhere, but when I pushed the neck back in further, the problem stopped, so maybe a leaky neck?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-20 06:34
Bluesparkle wrote:
> Okay, had a decent rehearsal with the "new" bass and I'm much
> more accustomed to it than even an hour before. Gotta get a
> neck strap first thing. Also gotta figure out how to tune it.
> When I pulled out at the neck past a certain point, I lost the
> low notes. Got an octave and maybe a third higher than what I
> was supposed to play (overtone)? Thought I had a leak in a pad
> somewhere, but when I pushed the neck back in further, the
> problem stopped, so maybe a leaky neck?
If you pull the neck too much, the tenon may end before the slot in the receiver, which would cause a very predictable leak, at roughly the register key position.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2009-08-20 06:35)
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-20 11:13
Aha! I think Ben just described the overtone problem.
But what about the throat Bb? The register key opens, and there's a second, smaller key up higher (in the metal part) that also opens up when I hit the register key. Bb currently sounds something between a Bb and a B. Seems to correct itself if I push the smaller pad back down manually. But, I can't figure out what this hole is for, if not an additional register vent. Seems that it should open up when the register key is used, but it just doesn't sound right...only on the Bb.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-20 13:51
Attachment: BassRegKey.jpg (26k)
The register key cup is the one near the neck receiver. The pad opening under the register key is in fact the Bb vent.
When you press the register key AND the thumb plate, only the near-neck register pad should open. When you finger the "pinch bb" (with the thumb plate open), then only the Bb vent should open.
(Your bass might look different than the one in the picture, but that was all I could come up with right now)
--
Ben
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2009-08-20 15:18
I do not play bass clarinet while standing, so I have no need for a neck strap. A floor peg is a much more comfortable support for the horn. I used a loose neck strap as insurance for a few days after starting to play bass, then realized there was little chance of me ever dropping the bass, so I stopped using the strap.
I do rest my right thumb on top of (rather than under) the thumb rest because it is more comfortable for me on my bass. When I play sax (with a neckstrap), my right thumb is always under the thumb rest. This difference may just be a function of where the thumb rest is located on the clarinet, but the bottom line is to do whatever works best for you. Remember, unlike the soprano clarinet, your right hand closes pads, not holes, so finger placement does not seem to be as critical as on the soprano clarinet.
As for those register pads, the intonation of many notes seems to be controlled by the height of those pads when open, and a lot of different linkages can change the height of those pads. Finding a knowledgeable tech to work on your bass may be difficult, but it is also important.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-22 12:53
Ben, thanks for the info about the register keys. I tested the register key combinations, and indeed, the near-neck pad opens every time, whether it is used in combinatinon with the thumb plate or not. It appears that the register key needs another layer of cork under it to keep if from traveling so far. I put a piece of cardboard and tape under it as a temporary fix, and everything works much better now.
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2009-08-22 21:42
I have a few thoughts about moving from b flat soprano to bass clarinet. Oviously, the instrument and mouthpiece should be of adequate quality, and in good adjustment. The focus of the air is in the middle of the oral cavity, in contrast to the clarinet where the focus in near the front of the mouth, and the saxophone, where the air focus is usually closer to the throat area. The bass embouchure must have enough reed inserted past the lower lip, so that the pressure exerted by the lower lip is on the part of the reed that is still on the mouthpiece table,not away from it. The air stream is "warm" and a bit less focused than the bflat clarinet. The tongue does not have to be as high as on the soprano clarinet. I also articulate down the reed a bit because the tip of the tongue cannot cover the bass clarinet reed tip and will cause squeeks. I also use an air first start to most articulations---- shhhhhhhhhtah, to make sure that the back of the throat is open and free. The angle of the mouthpiece should be up, not straight in the mouth. I have also been know to use a small air pocket down near the lower jaw to help the embouchure and air stream relax a bit. Just a few thoughts.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-22 22:45
During the last run through of the last song we were rehearsing Wedensday night, I noticed that the back of my throat was fatigued, I guess from having to have a more open embouchure than with a Bb. Usually it's the face/mouth muscles that feel it after a long session of playing Bb. I was able to get a lot of volume out of it, and that was quite satisfying. Really, it's a lot of fun to wrestle with something new. I'm thinking I need to add a bass to my collection of Bb's. Hmmmm...
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-23 00:31
Bluesparkle wrote:
> I'm thinking I need to add a bass to my collection of Bb's. Hmmmm...
An excellent choice, Ma'am. It's wonderful down there this time of year.
:-)
--
Ben
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