 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-08-15 12:46
Woww 75$ is still more than the rate from the organization of Icelandic musicians which many teacher who also play professionally are in. The rate for one hour lesson is more around 60$.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-15 12:56
$60 is what my fresh-out-of-music-school teacher asked.
$80+ is what private teachers charge here, and I'd think these aren't all top drawer professionals. (I don't mean to run them down; a good teacher isn't necessarily a professionally performing artist)
--
Ben
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-08-15 14:07
To the list you can add Tokyo, Japan.
Private teachers usually charge between $50-100/hour for high school aged and above. Often, younger students are charged less.
Private music schools that have more than one teacher and perhaps teach several instruments generally can run cheaper, but can also be up to about the same price as private.
Post Edited (2009-08-15 15:11)
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-08-15 14:08
David's survey, though dated about 10 years ago, still seems to be in the ball park, at least for my area in and around New York.
We're not talking about "name" artists. But at the high end for a working professional with good credentials (B.A., M.A. in respected music programs) you can expect to pay $80 to $100 per hour.
I take lessons through a music school just outside Manhattan. The rate is roughly $44/ half-hour and $87/hour. for private instruction on any instrument.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2009-08-15 15:52
Here are my rates for 3 private lessons, I won't give just one lesson.
I must get many ideas across to a new student and it can't be covered in just one lesson.
Depending on the age and financial status of a new student, my fee is:
$2 a minute, or $3 a minute, and the lessons run about 1-1.5 hours each.
Some very advanced professionals only need 15-30 minutes. Very advanced amateurs need at least an hour.
I don't teach children anymore, just young professionals and adults.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2009-08-15 16:43
At $2 a minute or $3 a minute that's $120 and $180 an hour. That's pretty stiff J.J. You must be the most expensive private teacher in all creation.
There's a few Principle Clarinets in the big five who are known to charge only $100 an hour.
An interesting aside...Bonade used to charge $5 an hour for a lesson late at night, during which he would sometimes (often) fall asleep.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-08-15 17:08
I'll say you're wrong old geezer. Big 5 teachers don't charge only $100 hr - and I do say only.
Bonade charged $10 hr - I played Principal Clarinet in the town that he lived in (Lambertville - according to David Hite who studied with him).
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: theconcertino
Date: 2009-08-15 17:21
FWIW - Mark Nuccio charges $200/hr. I can't imagine Yeduda Gilad or any teacher charging more than that.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2009-08-15 18:35
Bonade gave a lot of half hour lessons late at night. $5 a pop?
Buy a copy of "Daniel Bonade: A Founder of the American Style of Clarinet Playing" and you all will learn what kind of teacher he was. or not?
I think maybe a reincarnation of C. Rose might be a $200 an hour deal; but anybody else, I don't know....
Clarinet Redux
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-08-15 19:46
Wow $2 to $3 dollars a minute and your students have 1 to 1.5 hour lessons ?
How often do you see a student ? I am in a fairly affluent area and I don't know many students, young professional or adults, who would be willing or able to pay that on an on going basis. More power to you if you students are advancing at a pace so they are willing to pay $150 an hour.
While you don't teach children any more, I enjoy teaching children. I have to put up with a lot of.."the dog ate my clarinet" stories and "soccer practice ran late"..but someone has to teach children, I really do like it, and when they start making choices to play music instead of doing something else that is kind of nice.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-08-16 04:01
This thread seems to have gotten off track. And I am curious about the initial question.
What does Prof. Gilad charge if he accepts students from outside his teaching positions?
Based on his track record of placing students in top orchestra positions, he should be getting top dollar from those that want to study with him.
And as far as those who can charge fees that I would never pay nor afford, God bless you if students still come knocking on your door.
A teacher has to be truly exceptional if they are able to charge $150 or more for their wisdom especially in this economy.
My guess is that it is often the student "investing" in getting the teacher's name on their resume that commands these inflated prices.
Rarely is it that the teacher is saying anything that could not be learned from a more economical source and from a person who is more dedicated to teaching than running to the bank on the way to their next concert.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-16 07:58
If you are looking to find out what Yehuda Gilad charges for a lesson, you have to contact and ask Yehuda Gilad. We can "guess" and offer comparisons, but only when you contact the person you want to take lessons from can you get a true answer.
And just because one student pays one price does not mean you will pay the same. As JJM stated, he charges different rates for different students, and I would think others might as well. It's their business, they charge what THEY want, so you have to ask each person individually.
Alexi
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-08-16 08:01
One of my favourite 'lesson' stories is the one that a 'cellist friend told me many years ago about the time she booked a lesson with Janos Starker in New York in the 60's. In those days, Starker charged $50 for a lesson -- so this was really a major, major investment. How much would that be nowadays? $500?
Anyway, she went and played, and after a few minutes he stopped her, and said, "You know, you think of your left hand thumb as much too important. It's as though you have the idea that the pressure of your fingers on the string and fingerboard has to be equal to the opposition of your thumb. Well, the thumb does come into it, true -- but you do much better to imagine the pressure as coming from the weight of your arm. The thumb helps, but if it does too much, you lose fluidity of movement in position changes, and much else besides."
So she looked; and it was true. And she could also see that it would change her life. Starker smiled, and said, "Is that enough?"
And after thinking a moment, she decided it was -- did she really want his fingerings for the Dvorak concerto, or whatever?
So she paid her $50, went away after 15 minutes -- and never forgot it.
Tony
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-17 00:28
I don't know what he charges but I charge $100 an hour but I don't watch the clock and only give hour lessons. In NY they charge more. One of my students took a lesson with Mark Nuccio of the NY Phil and he charged him $250 for a lesson but did go a bit longer than an hour and picked him up at the bus station because there was no other way to get to his house. Yes, he took him back to the bus too. I think it depends on where you live and how the teacher is. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-08-17 00:50
Wow. I'm really lucky, then, hearing about all these high prices. My first teacher charged $25 an hour, but we regularly went 15 minutes over. She had a bachelor's degree in clarinet and a master's in education. Now I take lessons from the second clarinetist in the symphony here, whois a very accomplished clarinetist, and she only charges $35 an hour. The principal clarinet in the symphony charges $50, but I haven't taken any lessons from him.
Why would things be so much cheaper here? I thought at first that it might be because there's really only the two professionals in town who give lessons, but that doesn't make any sense. You'd think it would be more expensive then, because people don't have a huge range of teachers to choose from. Ideas, anyone?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-08-17 00:53
Could be less demand if you're in a smaller metropolitan area. Also, cost of living plays a part. If a 1-bedroom apartment costs $1800, you'll have more expensive lessons than if it costs $450.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-08-17 00:53
Curinfinwe wrote:
> Why would things be so much cheaper here?
'Cause Nova Scotia, for all its beauty, ain't New York or LA or London or Tokyo or ....
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-08-17 00:54
Well, yes, I'm quite aware of that. But the prices just seem so much drastically lower.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-08-17 01:04
Curinfinwe wrote:
> Well, yes, I'm quite aware of that. But the prices just seem so
> much drastically lower.
Here in Detroit - which has an excellent symphony - prices with the principal or assistant principal are significantly lower than what I'd pay in New York, too. It's what the market will bear.
In Manhattan, if you're a new resident, non-rent controlled, an $1800/mo one bedroom apt. in a desirable area is but a dream ...
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-17 01:32
My daughter's lessons, here in Detroit, with one of the symphony members, have run $75/hr for the past 4 years. They have been well worth it.
Her instructor also often ran over the scheduled hour for no extra charge, if my daughter was well prepared and did well on the exercises. He also cautioned her that if she was not prepared for a lesson, it might only last 20 minutes, as it was a waste of both their time. That never happened, as I think both he and I put enough dread of what the consequences would be, and she has a very strong desire to be the best she can be.
Jeff
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-08-17 02:11
Long Island, NY - rates range from $50/hr for teachers just out of college starting their own private practice to $75+/hr for experienced teachers/performers and co-moderators of the clarinet bulletin board ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Remember - as much as we would always like to charge more, music lessons for most families (especially those who have more than one child taking lessons) are an expensive proposition, especially now when weighed against ever rising household expenses and fuel. Thus we always have to be cautious not to price ourselves out of reach for our students.
...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-08-17 02:20
Yup, it's not pricing ones self out of the market that makes a difference.
You can be brilliant, but if most can't touch the price, it will be a small studio.
I stay affordable, but not cheap.
My wife pays $90 hr for personal training.
Bloody gym is expensive!!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-08-17 03:05
Tony,
I love your story. I do believe that a great teacher (I repeat a great teacher) can say things in a succinct way and cut to the chase. And that is worth more than 10 cheap lessons.
But very few teachers have that ability. And, as I am sure you will agree, very few teachers have the ability and analytical skills to reach a student that quickly as your vignette suggests.
In the States, Gilad has really established himself as the primary teacher of this generation (based on audition results and comments by students who have worked with him).
But success begets success. Talent gravitates to success. In the case of Starker, the student you allude to could grasp the essence of what JS was telling her. And to her credit, she could assimilate it.
But she came to him, I am sure, after his reputation as a teacher was secured and that he attracted students at her level.
But again, I will make the claim, that very few teachers have this ability to analyze, inspire, and demonstrate in this manner.
And that is why there are only one or two great teachers in each generation. On any instrument or voice.
And when that happens, as Mastercard says, it is priceless.
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2009-08-17 03:12
David - you can add Minnesota to you list. 1/2 hour = $10-$20, Hour = $20-$40.
The most expensive lesson I've taken has been $80/hr. I've only taken a couple of those to supplement my lessons with my college professor. I may try to take a few more lessons this year with several teachers at different grad. schools. I'm not really planning on attending grad school right away, but I'd like to keep my options open. Aside from that, I just want to be the best musician I can be before I start teaching people how to become musicians.
Neal
www.youtube.com/nmraskin
www.musicedforall.com
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-08-17 03:31
Some of us Minnesota teachers charge more if we teach at a music store because the music store eats into our cut! My fees at home are $20 for a half-hour and at the store they're $24 for the same length. I have Bachelor & Masters degrees from respectable programs, but chose not to go the symphony musician route. I've never been a good clock-watcher, particularly if I don't have students booked straight, either!
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-08-17 17:17
I wrote:
>> How much would that ($50) be nowadays? $500?>>
Actually, I think it's more like $300. Still quite a large sum.
The point of my story is really that I think that the relationship between teacher and student is too often misconceived. The interaction between Tanya and Starker is a sort of distillation of what could be commonplace if what lies behind it were more widely appreciated.
John Moses's attitude, and his billing scheme, I approve of; and I may well try the billing scheme myself. (The only difficulty I see is that I find it difficult to stop a lesson until I'm convinced that the student has, at least temporarily, got hold of the fundamental idea I'm trying to get across. So, I'd prefer to charge for 'an extended hour' and then, if it goes over, say, an hour and a half, perhaps ask the student whether they can afford to pay more.)
The most important work of a lesson is done by the student afterwards. Unless we're talking about beginners, anything else is misrepresenting the teacher/student relationship as one of the TRANSMISSION OF INFORMATION from someone who knows that information to someone who doesn't know that information. (Compare: I KNOW how the Brahms F minor sonata goes, and I'LL TELL YOU how it goes.) So, the transmission of information increases linearly with time, and more time equals more information equals more money.
Whereas what it can be, rather, is the teacher showing a student a way of thinking about the process of getting to be able to do something they cannot at present manage. That something may be best chosen by the teacher, and be just one aspect of the piece or study being considered; but the process itself has to be undertaken or completed by the student subsequently.
I believe that any student who doesn't appreciate this fundamental fact is considerably hampered in their progress, and needs to be told by their teacher that they are so hampered, again, again and again if necessary.
Good teachers are rightly revered. But there is too much reverence of the wrong sort for teachers. It means that students look for AUTHORITY FIGURES, when they should be looking for ENABLERS. Much of what is posted on this BBoard about teachers reflects that fact.
Of course, bad teachers collude with bad students in the misrepresentation of the relationship, because it is in their interest to do so. So, the lessons go on. But I believe that any teacher who colludes in this way has no business being a teacher.
And that is independent of the fee charged.
Tony
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-17 19:18
Iggy Genussa told me this story years ago. He used to be the principal clarinetist of the BSO when I came here. He said when he was a kid, back in the depression days, his lessons cost 25 cents. He said at one lesson his teacher fell asleep during his lesson so he played through everything, put the quarter on the stand and went home. Another time his teacher gave him an etude to transpose and he forgot to do that so he played it as written but the teacher did not notice so he found another teacher.
Hey, a box of Vandoren reeds was about $3.00 a box of TWENTY FIVE REEDS when I was in school in the late 50s early 60s. At that time Joe Allard charged me $!0 or $15 dollars for a bass clarinet lesson. I'm not sure of the exact amount or if it was an hour or half hour though. Too long ago. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-17 19:40
When I took a few lessons with Mr. Ridenour (unfortunately FAR too few . . . only could go to about 3), he had a good system in place I thought. He charged "per lesson" and not "per time". Granted, with the money he makes from his clarinets and other products and being a retired top designer for LeblancI doubt he needs to teach at all to "earn a living". But from his books and articles, I think he just has a need to pass on knowledge and so teaching he probably does just for the heck of it.
He charged me some sum of money (I can't remember exactly.....somewhere in the 60 - 80 dollar range I think) and taught "per lesson". Each lesson he would work on a goal or two. And the lesson ended when I was able to grasp the concept and at least show him I knew WHAT I needed to work on for next lesson. So a lesson could be 45 minutes, or two hours. Whenever I showed competency in an area we were working on, or was able to show him I knew what I needed to do in order to achieve that goal, that's when it'd end.
I liked that idea. Although it's certainly not practical to someone who has a few students and a less flexible schedule.
If it weren't for Parade season, change of command season, and the fact that he was a 2.5 hour drive and I was getting deployed in a few (too) short months, I'd still be going there now.
I'm hoping wherever I go next, I find a teacher at LEAST within an hour to an hour and a half drive.
Alexi
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Author: clarinetwoman
Date: 2009-08-17 20:38
50-100 per hour is reasonable. but anything more than a hundred is INSANE. A teacher should teach you to teach yourself. If you pay anyone 250 per hour to tell you anything, maybe you should instead PRACTICE.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-18 03:54
I agree with clarinetwomen about charging $250, but Mark did pick him up and take him back to the bus station. When I asked my student what he learned from his $250 lesson, plus bus fare from NYC, he said he reinforced what I was teaching him. I was flattered of course but didn't charge him anymore. I could see $150 in the "Big" cities with a highly respected teacher. Everything is more expensive in the "Big" cities. ESP
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-08-18 07:18
Tony Pay wrote:
> John Moses's attitude, and his billing scheme, I approve of;
> and I may well try the billing scheme myself.
I find that charging a student per minute is very strange and even a little embarrassing. It has a lot to do with the personality of the teacher and the reputation of the teacher can be damaged by that.
I know of a very famous clarinet teacher, one of the best in the world, who used to ask for the money befor the lesson. He became an international jock because of that, people said that he works like a prostitute....the money first, and then----
Tony Pay Wrote:
"(The only difficulty I see is that I find it difficult to stop a lesson until I'm convinced that the student has, at least temporarily, got hold of the fundamental idea I'm trying to get across."
Very often when a student don't understand what the teacher is trying to
explaine- it means that he can't hear it! Its possible that in the future, after good ear training and practicing the student will understand what he heard from a teacher or an artist long time ago. My point is that it is not always essential to insist that the student will understand everything during the lesson. As we say in Heberew: Shlach Lchmecha al pne hamyim...
"Cast your bread upon the waters" ...that applys to the student and the teacher.
Sarah
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-08-18 14:01
I think that this thread is focusing too much on the money and what is a fair price for a lesson.
It will vary from place to place and teacher to teacher. As it should.
It is up to the free market to decide what is correct in terms of price.
I do however agree with some of the issues that have been brought up around the subject.
> The value of a lesson can often not be quantified in monetary terms or in actual length of the lesson
> There are different methods of determining what constitutes value (money, time, chauffeur fees, geographic area, teacher's reputation, etc.).
I just know that what I would pay for a lesson does not always equate to what the "invisible hand" is telling me.
So perhaps I am getting older and tighter with my money.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-08-19 02:19
"I think that this thread is focusing too much on the money and what is a fair price for a lesson.
It will vary from place to place and teacher to teacher. As it should.
It is up to the free market to decide what is correct in terms of price".
Whatever services or goods you buy, it is always about the money. The money is a real thing to families considering music lessons for their children, and teachers need to focus on it. I know when it is time for a student to leave me and go on but sometimes they cannot afford to. Even so, the lessons in the beginning have to be affordable and presented by competent teachers who inspire their students to continue to play so that those charging $100+ for their teaching actually have students to teach.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-08-19 06:15
Sarah Elbaz wrote:
>> Tony Pay wrote: "John Moses's attitude, and his billing scheme, I approve of; and I may well try the billing scheme myself."
I find that charging a student per minute is very strange and even a little embarrassing. It has a lot to do with the personality of the teacher and the reputation of the teacher can be damaged by that.>>
I can see the problem. However, my thought was that it COULD be part of a conversation between teacher and student, with the idea of establishing a proper relationship between:
(1) the financial part of the deal, and
(2) the musical part of the deal.
The thing is, as I argued, the student may not experience proper participation in (2). Whereas, under this scenario, the student has a motivation to have the lesson be as efficient as possible -- in other words, to get as quickly as possible to the point where they can work on the issue themselves.
>> Tony Pay Wrote:
"(The only difficulty I see is that I find it difficult to stop a lesson until I'm convinced that the student has, at least temporarily, got hold of the fundamental idea I'm trying to get across."
Very often when a student don't understand what the teacher is trying to explain -- it means that he can't hear it! Its possible that in the future, after good ear training and practicing the student will understand what he heard from a teacher or an artist long time ago. My point is that it is not always essential to insist that the student will understand everything during the lesson.
As we say in Heberew: Shlach Lchmecha al pne hamyim... "Cast your bread upon the waters" ...that applys to the student and the teacher.>>
Absolutely. But again, that could be a subject for discussion.
The essential point is that if I am giving a lesson, what is valuable to ME is my time, whereas what is valuable to the student is whatever INSIGHT I can give. I can discuss with the student how best these different priorities can be met -- including the fact that what constitutes an insight may well be best determined by me rather than them.
Of course, I don't teach ONLY for the money. The satisfaction when an insight is grasped by a student is shared by the teacher -- which is why one sometimes gives a lesson for nothing; on this BBoard, for example.
(By the way, notice that I only said "I may well try the billing scheme myself," not that I WOULD:-)
I would be interested to hear what John Moses's response is to these concerns.
Tony
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-08-19 07:14
Old Geezer wrote:
>>There's a few Principle Clarinets in the big five who are known to charge only $100 an hour.
There's a few Principal Clarinets in the big five, period. d:
I couldn't resist. And, My teacher, he's very, very good, but I only pay $35 an hour...Price doesn't equate to the quality to the lesson, necessarily...Does it? Again, my teacher is a professional, and he's very good, but I don't pay nearly as much as people say you "should" here.
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-08-19 07:32
Tony Pay wrote:
Pay Wrote:
> Of course, I don't teach ONLY for the money. The satisfaction
> when an insight is grasped by a student is shared by the
> teacher -- which is why one sometimes gives a lesson for
> nothing; on this BBoard, for example.
Yes, I know, and for all the wonderful lessons that we got from you I am even willing to pay per word :-)
Sarah
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