 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-08-13 10:35
Hi everyone,
I just want to ask if anyone knows any orchestra which doesn't use A clarinets. Starting in September I will be playing in our school's new orchestra. As it is new, I don't know how our music teacher is going with the pieces. I just ordered a Lyrique A clarinet, but I am wondering if the A horn is necessary, or if just the B flat is fine.
Brian
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2009-08-13 10:52
I have heard of Italian orchestras not using A clarinets. But they played on full boehm clarinets (which go down to low Eb), so it meant they could transpose anything for A clarinet onto the Bb. But other than that special circumstance (which may not be true anyway), I would say all orchestras require A clarinets.
You would have to transpose without the A, and you wouldn't be able to play any low E's in the A clarinet part.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-13 13:27
If you are taqlking a high school orchestra, most pieces scored fro these groups (usually arrangements, not original scores) are written with parts for Bb clarinets. Having an A wouldn't hurt, in any case, and if you plan to pursue orchestral playing in college, it's quite necessary.
Jeff
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-14 01:56
It really depends on the literature you are going to play. There are many orchestral pieces that you don't need an A clarinet but there are also a great many pieces that you can't do without it. Ask the director if you need one this year, he can tell from his scores. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-08-15 22:39
This does make me ask, and sorry to steal your topic, do colleges usually have an A clarinet set aside for its players?
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Author: quintet_op115
Date: 2009-08-16 21:25
Many (and I do mean many) pieces required both A and Bb clarinets (e.g. Brahms Symphony Nos. 1 and 3, Dvorak Symphonies Nos. 8 and 9) and it would be necessary to transpose, and this requires much skill. If this is a high school orchestra, I doubt you would be required to have an A clarinet and if you did come across a work written for the A, they would have parts already transposed for you. So you do not need to worry, I am sure everything will turn out fine. If you are not planing to become a professional clarinettist, I would not bother purchasing an A clarinet.
Regards,
quintet_op115
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-08-16 21:48
quintet_op115 wrote:
> If you are not planing to
> become a professional clarinettist, I would not bother
> purchasing an A clarinet.
Therefore with that line of thinking you are not only eliminating yourself from ever playing in an orchestra (community, freelance, regional, etc...), but also will never be able to perform the multitude of solo, chamber and ensemble music using the A clarinet.
I've said it be before, but I suppose it again bears repeating:
If you are serious about playing the clarinet and want to do more than just play in bands, you need to own an A clarinet.
...GBK
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2009-08-16 22:04
quintet_op115 wrote:
>If this is a high school orchestra, I doubt you would be required to have an A clarinet and if you did come across a work written for the A, they would have parts already transposed for you. <
This depends entirely on the high school group. In our youth symphony we very regularly played pieces where the clarinet part was in A. There was almost never a transposed part. Fortunately both my high school and the high school the other clarinetist attended owned A clarinets. I see transposed parts more often in the pieces we play in my current community orchestra, but they are sometimes awkward.
Barb
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-16 23:54
My daughter just finished up four years in one of the Detroit area's Youth Symphonies, the past two years as principal clarinet. She had to use a Bb, an A and an Eb soprano. She had a very nice Bb, borrowed a wretched A from her high school until we could afford a new one, and borrowed an eefer from a local musician in our neighborhood who wasn't playing it and wanted her to have access to it. She ended up owning it as we bought it for her this past Christmas.
When I was in HS, none of us had A clarinets, but the orchestral music we played was mostly dumbed down arrangements. If I had been in the Cincinnati Youth Symphony back then, I would have needed an A.
Jeff
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-08-17 01:17
It's been my experience that there are at least a few high end Orchestra programs in high schools in each State or region that don't play watered down arrangements but play the real thing. They are often the programs that compete for state titles and such - and often exist,frankly, primarily for the benefit of the string players and the winds are often "on loan" from the band. That said, this is true of some of the schools I coach woodwind sections for. They will therefore, have pieces that call for A clarinets, but the school itself will own the A clarinets and loan them out to the students as needed. So, you might want to check with the band director.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2009-08-17 01:42
...Playing wireless electric fiddles?
I am curious now as to whether it is as common as it used to be for a public high school to have an A clarinet for their orchestral players to use. I certainly was not in a position to buy a pair when I was upgrading as a sophomore in high school, nor do I think there are many cases where a high school player should buy their own A clarinet. Do those who have been teaching a long time think that budget constraints have made it more difficult for high school students to scrounge an A clarinet for their early orchestral experiences? Or, is it about the same as it used to be in 19XX?
Barb
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2009-08-17 04:10
Re:
If the bands could only borrow the string players for the marching band.......
Remember Woody Allen playing the cello in marching band in Take the Money and Run?
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-08-17 06:16
Thanks to all who responded. Yes it is a high school orchestra.
The thing is, I have no idea what we will be playing, but i heard from my friends that we might play Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet fantasy overture, which is written for A clarinet. Our music director told me (and my assistant principal) that we need A clarinets, but since I don't know if we will definitely need it, or when we need it, I am debating whether to spend money on one now, in a few months, even next year, or not at all. Unfortunately our school does not own any A clarinets, so I can't just borrow one.
Brian
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-17 15:32
Brian wrote:
<<Our music director told me (and my assistant principal) that we need A clarinets, but since I don't know if we will definitely need it, or when we need it, I am debating whether to spend money on one now, in a few months, even next year, or not at all. Unfortunately our school does not own any A clarinets, so I can't just borrow one.>>
It might not be a bad idea to buy one now, if you can afford it, simply because they do take a little getting used to. They are slightly bigger and require a bit more effort to play. Also, I found that it also takes a little getting used to the fact that on the A clarinet you finger one note and a different note comes out than the one you would normally expect. Also, you may find that the intonation and/or response on certain notes is a little different on the A.
Additionally, a new A clarinet may take a little tweaking to get it to play the way you want. The ![[A5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/a5.gif) on my R-13 A had a tendency to undertone (grunt) very easily until I put some additional cork on my register key, for instance.
When I was in school I was fortunate enough to get away with only owning a Bb clarinet. When I played in our city's youth symphony, I transposed all A clarinet and C clarinet parts for my Bb (you can do this as long as the A clarinet part doesn't contain any low E's, and you can always transpose C clarinet parts). For region orchestra and other high-school related orchestra performances, they always gave us Bb parts, so there was no problem.
If you do end up transposing A parts for Bb, be sure to know your E major and B major scales (and arpeggios and 3rds) really well, because a lot of the time your A clarinet parts will end up in one of these keys when transposed for Bb. Even with having to get used to a new instrument, it's still usually easier to play the parts on an A.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-08-17 18:08
As I think about this topic, it occurs to me that, whether one needs to own a particular instrument or not really boils down to competition. Given two players of relatively equal general skill, the one who owns the appropriate clarinet will win the job. If most of your competitors for an orchestral position own an A, then you'd better have an A. If none of your competitors owns an A or you play significantly better than the folks who own an A, you don't need one. BTW, the same thing goes for a C.
That's why, in the U.S., I think it would be highly presumptuous of most high school orchestra directors to tell students that they must have an A clarinet to be in the orchestra. At the high schools I've been involved with, the orchestra directors are ecstatic if they can find two or three clarinetists who even want to be in the orchestra -- never mind their skill level or the instruments they own. On the other hand competitive youth orchestras, particularly those in large metropolitan areas, have a much broader pool of applicants to draw from. Their applicants come from the entire region and will likely include at least a few serious high school (and, in many cases, college) players who are studying with members of the local symphony or great freelance players or college faculty. These orchestras are thus in a better position to require an A than a single high school -- though, as mrn's experience will attest, they may wind up with students, at least occasionally, who do not use an A clarinet.
So here I disagree with GBK. IMO, for anyone other than a professional classical clarinetist, an A clarinet is a luxury, not a necessity. It's a fun toy and it will certainly make your life easier if you belong to an orchestra and it should improve your chances of winning an audition. If you can afford one, you will likely enjoy it but you don't absolutely need one to play in many community orchestras or even some regional professional orchestras. My cousin has both bachelors' and masters' degrees in clarinet. He has never owned an A and his college (a major state university with a large music program) did not own enough A clarinets to go around so all the clarinet students in the program learned to transpose. (It didn't hurt that the major professor considered transposition a critical skill.) He has played in both community and regional orchestras. I suspect the fact that he lives in a relatively small town in a rural area helps but I have no doubt that, with the possible exception of the St. Louis Philharmonic, he could win a position (and, more often than not, the principal position) in any of the community orchestras in St. Louis.
If an A was a necessity, I doubt publishers would bother having alternative Bb parts prepared to include with their part sets. I also doubt I would see so many A-clarinet rental and borrowed parts with Bb-clarinet notes written in above the A parts (too often in ink, I might add). Someone out there must be playing A parts on a Bb clarinet.
Glenn is correct that, without an A, you will not be able to perform most of the chamber music (other than that written for clarinet solo) written for A clarinet (though transposition of a single movement in a multi-movement work might be possible). But you can still learn the parts (and possibly borrow an A at need) and, if the boxes of music stacked in my study are any indication, there is more than enough good classical chamber music out there for Bb clarinet to last a lifetime (actually several of my lifetimes).
I find, since I've been playing in orchestras, that I need a C clarinet each year for almost as many concerts as I need an A clarinet. Even so, you won't find many professionals telling you that you need a C clarinet. There may even still be some clarinetists in major symphonies who transpose C clarinet parts. Again, I think it boils down to competition. If no one auditioning for a position owns a C, at least the playing field is level if you don't own one. But, if sight-reading the Moldau is an important part of the audition, a good player who owns a C can clobber a somewhat better player who doesn't.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2009-08-17 18:12)
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-08-17 19:01
Uhm...For the whole argument of the A Clarinet being a necessity or not...What about the Mozart Concerto? One of the most important pieces for clarinet...And it's in A. Yeah, you can play it on a Bb, as I do, but every recording I've heard uses an A clarinet.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-17 20:58
BTW, a lot of orchestral pieces are in the public domain and downloadable from IMSLP for free. Sometimes they even have separate downloadable clarinet parts in addition to the score. The Tchaikovsky Romeo & Juliet overture is one of these pieces. Just reading through it (I haven't tried playing it, mind you--although I've heard it a million times), it doesn't look like it would be really bad to transpose--no low E's, so you should be able to get away with it, at least. It's fast, but it has relatively few runs, and most of those are just scales or fragments of scales. In fact, most of it looks like repeated notes--you might actually find the tonguing a bit easier on the Bb.
Perhaps you should try downloading it, pull out some staff paper, and try transposing it (or the tricky-looking parts) yourself to see what you think. (or use your computer, if you have the software to do it)
http://imslp.org/wiki/Romeo_and_Juliet_(overture-fantasia)_(Tchaikovsky,_Pyotr_Ilyich)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-08-17 22:11
What about the Mozart Concerto? How many commercial recordings have you heard by musicians who are not professional classical clarinetists? (For whom, I stated I do believe an A clarinet is a necessity.)
How many musicians who are not professional classical clarinetists ever have to perform the Mozart with an orchestra? You point out yourself that one can study and learn it on a Bb. For performances with piano, there is a Bb version that transposes the piano part rather than the clarinet part. The only thing you can't do on a Bb (without playing in a ridiculous key) is perform it with an orchestra. But if you're in a community orchestra and have an opportunity to do a concerto, there's always Weber. Or Krommer. Or Crusell. Or Copland. Or.... Or, if you're lucky, a borrowed A clarinet. And the general consensus nowadays is that the Mozart was really written for a bassett clarinet in A. Is it necessary for every serious classical clarinetist to own one of those?
I'll say it again, for an amateur, an A clarinet is a wonderful toy if you can afford one but, if you can't afford one, you don't have to give up playing classical music.
jnk
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-17 23:34
>>> And the general consensus nowadays is that the Mozart was really written for a bassett clarinet in A. Is it necessary for every serious classical clarinetist to own one of those?
Of course! Gotta do our part to reinvigorate the economy!!! ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
Seriously, for most amateurs, an A is not a necessity. If you do a lot of orchestral work, either an A or an Eefer would be nice, but you can (mostly) live without them.
Jeff
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-08-17 23:49
Oh, no, well, I was just playing Devil's Advocate. I know if you're an amateur you don't necessarily need one. But for the argument, of
>>> And the general consensus nowadays is that the Mozart was really written for a bassett clarinet in A. Is it necessary for every serious classical clarinetist to own one of those?
I'll bite. I'll answer this rhetorical question. No. It is not. Because the A clarinet is in the same key, it just doesn't have the same range. There's a vast difference between the Basset clarinet in A and the Bb clarinet, in both range and the fact that they're in different keys. With the A clarinet you can, and usually do, take the part up an octave.
The whole point of
>>>What about the Mozart Concerto? How many commercial recordings have you heard by musicians who are not professional classical clarinetists? (For whom, I stated I do believe an A clarinet is a necessity.)
Serves both of our points. Every recording I've heard of a professional playing it use a A, or A Basset clarinet in A, a la Shifrin or Kam, and you like you said, if you're not a professional, you don't need one.
You already stated that you believe professionals need it, and I was trying to state that almost all professionals utilize it when playing the piece.
That's a self-defeating argument to start.
Though, forgive me if I just sound like some dumb kid who doesn't know what he's talking about. d:
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