 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sweettea
Date: 2009-04-05 14:31
I have returned to playing after a very long 18 year hiatus, and need to buy a new clarinet. Alas, my beloved 1986 R13 went to a pawn shop my last year of college for $300 so I could pay rent. A true tragedy.....one that I have regretted my entire adult life.
I've tried two new R13's from my local music store, and they just don't have the same "feel" (I won't say tone, because I am re-training my embouchure and know my tone will improve over time).
Do you think there were better years than others in the manufacture of the R13?
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-04-05 14:53
early 1970's - 1971 - 1975 or thereabouts
use the search button above - this has been discussed before
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: marshall
Date: 2009-04-05 21:08
Clark Fobes has an article somewhere on the website (not the forum) where he states which one's he thinks have an exceptionally good sound...110,xxx-225,xxx if I remember correctly (he also notes that the sound is particularly good around 145,xxx).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-04-05 21:13
marshall wrote:
> Clark Fobes has an article somewhere on the website (not the
> forum) where he states which one's he thinks have an
> exceptionally good sound...110,xxx-225,xxx if I remember
> correctly (he also notes that the sound is particularly good
> around 145,xxx).
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Intonation.html
...GBK
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Author: sweettea
Date: 2009-04-05 21:51
Thank you all for the links. I did do a search before I posted the original question, but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. The vast information on the characteristics of different era horns is interesting.
I've never had the opportunity to play an R13 made in the early 70s, but I'd love to get my hands on one. There is just not a lot of choice available in my market. I have considered buying online, but I would only shop with someone who would be willing to let me play test. No matter which clarinet I decide to purchase, I think it will be well worth the money to sit down with a technician and have him customize it to my preferences.
- Andrea
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-04-05 23:10
Someone will have to pry my 111,xxx from my cold, dead hands...
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-04-06 00:01
My 72,xxx (1962) is very sweet and free blowing. Has intonation issues, though (or rather, I have intonation issues I attribute some of them to my R13). Was helped a lot by the Galper vent.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-04-06 00:47
My tech said that my 1983 R-13 was a good piece of wood. He seems to think that sometime in the mid-80s the wood is softer.
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Author: sweettea
Date: 2009-04-06 01:41
So Katrina and Pappy, how did you acquire your older instruments? Is there a dealer with a good selection you trust on the net?
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-04-06 01:47
Sadly, my clarinet was purchased for me in 1983 by my parents, used by the guy I ended up taking lessons with for a year, starting a couple of months after I acquired it.
Well, I suppose that's not exactly _sad_ but it definitely did not come from the internet!
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2009-04-06 02:53
I own and play a pair of R13s from around 1970. I've tried other instruments over the years but never found anything to match them. I also have a Buffet E-flat from the same period. The B-flat cost $200, the A, $220, the E-flat, $400 (those were the days when you could buy boxes of 20 Vandoren reeds for $2.20).
I also have (but don't actually own) another pair of R13s. These are from a later period, sometime in the 1980s. They're good but not as even as my "vintage" R13s.
I've been offered a lot of money for my instruments but I doubt I will ever sell them. Certainly the Buffets I've tried in the last few years are not even in the same league.
Paul Globus
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-04-06 04:50
My 2 favorite clarinets, and the ones which I always gravitate back to, are 86xxx (1965) and 96xxx(1967). There is an undefined feeling of "oneness" with the instrument. The comfort level, blowing resistance, color, flexibility and warmth of sound just feels "right."
Next, in line of the ones I own, are the 1975 (Anniversary Model) Buffets (154xxx and 162xxx). These instruments actually tune a bit better than the late 1960's models, have a great sound, good projection, and are possibly a bit more focused than previous years.
I do find that the R13 Buffets I own in the 248xxx (1983) and 274xxx (1985) range definitely have a much different tonality and blowing resistance. Tighter, focused and more compact might be a way to describe it. Not better, not worse, just different. I suspect that the bore design is not the same as the 1960's and 1970's models.
The new Buffets over the past 5 years, which I have tried and picked out for students have been (after set up) amazingly consistant, but, for lack of a better term, tighter sounding and, for me, lacking a "personality," Of course there are exceptions, but many of these instruments, to me, now sound generic and sterile.
Then again, maybe I just hold them too much in comparison to the 1960's and early 1970's models.
...GBK
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Author: sweettea
Date: 2009-04-06 06:35
" There is an undefined feeling of "oneness" with the instrument. The comfort level, blowing resistance, color, flexibility and warmth of sound just feels "right." "
GBK, this is exactly what I mean. I guess I am looking for the "connection." It was definitely there with my old Buffet, and not just because I was used to playing it. It performed beautifully technically, but more than that, it had a fluidity of sound, the perfect resistance, and well, personality! I also found the two new ones I've tried to sound, as you put it, generic and sterile.
Before I spend (what for me is) a substantial amount of money on a new instrument, I want to be sure it is the "right" one.
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-04-06 13:08
Sweettea,
Alas, I can't help you with a current source. After an "experiment" with a Selmer 10g - that didn't turn out as well as planned - as I entered college in the early 70s, my father gave me his R-13 Bb and Selmer CT A. Both of which I play daily to this day. I would love to try the 10g again all these years later but I don't have it any longer.
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-04-06 13:32
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> 10G's were just ok at best to me. I put in about 6 years total
> on 10G's while in school
>
>
> Not even close to a good Buffet.
>
The short of it is that this was my conclusion as well - along with that of my college clarinet professor. I have a love-hate relationship with my old CT A. I'm periodically feel I need to find another (R13?, Leblanc?) but inertia has prevented me.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-04-06 14:42
In support of GBK's observation, after playing a wonderful set of Leblanc Concerto clarinets--personally worked on by Tom Ridenour--I have returned to playing my old vintage Buffet R13 (67XXX) which I purchased in 1964 as a college senior ($200 btw). With the Leblancs, I always felt that I was trying to play them (and when I suceeded, they played very well), but with my Buffet, I feel it "allows" me to play it. And with my newly "rescued" R13 A (96XXX), I'm ready for any music put in front of me.
However, the best clarinet I ever remember playing was an old pre R13 Buffet (the "Sweetest Clarinet Ever Made" label in the case) serial number around 21XXX. I had a chance to buy it along with a Selmer BA alto sax, but I declined due to a crack in the upper joint. I bought--and still play--the alto sax, but my college clarinet professor (who was quick to point out the crack to me) bought the clarinet, had the crack pinned and played it for the next ten years after I graduated. That is a "clarinet lesson" that I have never forgotten.................lol.
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Author: arundo
Date: 2009-04-06 17:45
I own a Buffet A clarinet from the late sixties, 102535, that was selected by my first teacher, Herbert Couf, formerly of the Detroit Symphony. It has perfect intonation, wonderfully responsive key action and is as mellow as they come. Admitedly, I've never tried Selmer, LeBlanc, etc., so I've no way of judging their quality. But I'm more than satisfied with my baby.
Walter Grabner PERS
Fobes barrel
Legere Quebec 3
Van Doren leather llgature
mark dickman
7738565490
markdickman82@hotmail.com
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2009-04-06 19:16
I was at the Laubin oboe shop in Peekskill, NY with my girlfriend as she tried two oboes (her "number" was up after 8 years and when she went to pick up her new oboe, exceptionally they had two in the store).
One oboe sounded pronouncedly better than the other. One sounded boxed-in and tight and the other had an opulent, warm, wide sound that whirlpooled in my ears. I remarked to Mr. Laubin on the marked difference in sound quality between the two oboes and he shrugged and said, "Different piece of wood".
I have been trying clarinets for students for several decades. I have noticed a decline in the density of the wood over the years. By flicking the clarinet with your finger on the fingernail you get a sense of the density of the clarinet's wood.
My impression is that the wood that was once rejected for turning into a pro horn is now accepted. Wood that was once used for an entry-level pro horn is now used for an instrument in a company's top line (Prestige, etc.).
------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-04-06 19:33
Simon Aldrich wrote:
> My impression is that the wood that was once rejected for
> turning into a pro horn is now accepted. Wood that was once
> used for an entry-level pro horn is now used for an instrument
> in a company's top line (Prestige, etc.).
It's no secret that all the best billets of grenadilla (so-called "Grade A" stock) are now being used for the Prestige and Tosca lines, while the next best grenadilla stock ("Grade B") is currently being used for the R-13's.
Thus, if the quality, or grade of wood concerns you, perhaps this is even more of a reason to seek out the older R-13's of the 60's and 70's, which at that time were the top of the line Buffet clarinets, and were built with the highest grade wood Buffet had available ...GBK
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Author: sweettea
Date: 2009-04-07 02:36
Simon & GBK, you have provided yet another reason for me to search out an older instrument. Of course the grade of Grenadilla wood would be better on the earlier models of the R13, since they were top of the line at the time. That just makes sense. It also probably contributes to the "personality" factor of the older horns, or lack thereof in the new models I've play tested.
I know what I'm looking for, it's just going to be a matter of finding it. Another musician in the world on a quest for the perfect instrument......
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