 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-09-04 04:02
Hello. I've just started my freshman year in a university as a clarinet performance major. Audition results for placements were just posted and I was placed in the symphonic band (top band) as third chair first clarinet/Eb clarinet. I know that the university has a few Eb clarinets, but I'm slightly skeptical of their quality. I know that, since I'm fairly new to playing Eb, these instruments should be fine for me this semester. However, I plan on going into orchestral playing (or trying, at least), and I know that one generally needs an auxiliary instrument (either Eb or bass) at which s/he is performance able. I was just wondering, at what point would it be a good idea for one to invest in their own Eb clarinet?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-09-04 13:43
In my opinion you should invest in an Eb clarinet as soon as you have enough experience playing and feel comfortable with a mouthpiece to know what to pick out. People thinks it’s just a short clarinet but playing it in tune with a good sound is an accomplishment, not to mention that the orchestral literature is very difficult to play well. If you’re really ambitions and serious about an orchestral career, a very difficult ambition, the next year you should invest in a bass clarinet, take lessons on that, and learn the orchestral literature as well, like I did. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-04 14:20
I like Ed's suggestions and agree with them completely,
I would like to add one thing: not every clarinetist has it in them to play both up (to the eefer) or down (to the bass). And what I mean is that their face does not allow one to succeed without an investment of time that may be prohibitive.
I do believe that you can learn to play either (both!) if you're willing to and find the proper help.
After being in your situation, Marshall, I discovered years later that the bass was far easier for me to play. Now I do succeed at Eb (and count myself lucky to do so!).
Greg Smith reported in a masterclass that he just couldn't make the bass work for him. Now I didn't stop him to ask how much he tried...
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2008-09-04 14:52
Ed’s comments are good advice.
I’m not a pro, or a performance major, but I have played Eb in community band for a while, and have played quite a few eefers. Based on that, here are some thoughts. Try your school’s instruments before you buy, you may get lucky and find a good one.
Usually, schools will have intermediate level instruments. Noblets are very popular. My first Eb was a former school owned Noblet 40. Altissimo is where the intermediate level eefers have problems. They tend to go way flat, so much so that you end up playing a half step sharp to be in tune. You often have to develop alternate fingerings for problem notes. Clarion G through B can be weak on some instruments too. They will be the first to show signs of a dying reed.
Mouthpieces are critically important on eefers. A lot of their intonation problems are made worse by poor MP selection. Ebs seem to wander in pitch very quickly as facings get long and tips open up. It’s fun to be able to bend notes all over the place when you’re playing the Witches Sabbath or Til, but bad intonation in a band solo is not worth it. Start with a medium length and close tip. Break in a selection of fairly hard reeds and try a lot of mouthpieces before you decide on one.
Finally, play the instrument regularly. Picking up an Eb is not like switching from Bb to A. Response is very different, especially up high, and that’s where you play Eb most of the time. I’ve found that laying off for a few days sets me back, even while playing Bb/A daily.
Not only is Eb fun to play, it has made me a better clarinetist overall.
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Author: RLSchwebel
Date: 2008-09-04 16:31
You mean you're not suppose to just steal from your high school band?
No one ever played it except for me anyway, it must have gotten lost in one those crazy inventories before summer starts. You should hear the piccolo part from Star and Stripes played on Eb...sounds terrific marching off the field! It is a great Buffet that plays terrific with the Fobes set-up!
~robt
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-09-04 16:53
Yeah right...I wish I could have my highschool's Eb. They have an R13 and it's actually a ridiculously good instrument. If I stole that, chaos would ensue.
I guess the general consensus is to start shopping for an Eb. On that note, I play Buffet clarinets (R13 Bb and Festival A). Naturally, should I start shopping, I'm going to try Buffet Ebs, but at the same time I was thinking about trying some rosewood Patricolas. Are there any other suggestions on an instrument that could possibly match my instruments well?
Also, do you have recommendations on vendors to buy Ebs from? I'm having trouble finding somewhat local vendors that sell them. I was planning on ordering someon trial from multiple vendors. Where do you recommend?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-04 17:05
Marshall,
Do want you want to do (which sounds like buying an Eb...cool!).
But if you're going to have your hands on an R13 Eb clarinet, do yourself a favor and wait. Play if for the year, develop your skills, and then you'll be fully prepared to pick a great horn for yourself.
In the mean time: talk to your teacher and buy a great Eb mouthpiece. I don't have an Eb mouthpiece from Greg Smith, but the rest of my soprano mouthpieces are and I highly recommend Greg's services.
James
PS...I play an R13 Eb, and I love it.
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2008-09-04 17:06)
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-09-04 17:22
That was essentially what I was going to do. I've actually wanted to get my own Eb mouthpiece for years, but didn't have a reason. Now I do.
What's the word on Hawkins Eb mouthpieces?
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-09-04 17:23
That was essentially what I was going to do. I've actually wanted to get my own Eb mouthpiece for years, but didn't have a reason. Now I do.
What's the word on Hawkins Eb mouthpieces?
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-04 21:10
The Selmer effers were quite popular some years ago as the tone quality was not so bright as the Buffet. Or as a friend of mine (Eastman DMA) likes to say, "Selmer Ebs sound less like holloween."
I like my Yamaha 681 with the Fobes extension. Nice keywork, intonation and "not so much like holloween" sound with my Bay custom mpc. You may want to try the Patricola or Leblanc effer as well before you settle on the Buffet. Just my thoughts............
I don't understand the "face" comment above. If you can play Bb & A soprano, effer and bass should not be a problem as long as you have a good mouthpiece for each.
When to buy? Whenever you can afford too. Eb and bass clarinets are a lot of fun to play and open up more opportunities in the--somewhat limited--orchestral job market.
And while you "at it", learning to play the saxophones wouldn't hurt your resume either.
Post Edited (2008-09-04 21:17)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-04 21:24
"I don't understand the "face" comment above. If you can play Bb & A soprano, effer and bass should not be a problem as long as you have a good mouthpiece for each."
Hello William,
Logically it makes sense, but it is not born out. We haven't had one in a while, but the bass clarinet embouchure argument (do we play it like a clarinet or like a sax?) displays that the instrument is not necessarily the same for all people. What I'm attempting to point out is that some clarinetists have more success approaching the bass with a sax mentality. This does not work for me at all, I think of the bass as a clarinet. I also play all the clarinets.
I've had several friends with advanced degrees that have experienced this on one side or the other.
Perhaps I'm in the anecdotal minority, and perhaps not.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-09-04 21:27
I would add that if you are fairly new to the Eflat clarinet, it might be a good idea to not break the bank on an expensive hand made mouthpiece at first. All the advice above is great and purchasing a fancy mouthpiece might be something to do after you play for a year. The Vandoren B44 eflat mouthpiece is a good mouthpiece for the price. I sure wouldn't want to buy a 300 dollar mouthpiece only to find out I don't like it 6 months later. Some big name players play the B44 mouthpiece on eflat and sound amazing such as John Yeh in the Chicago Symphony.
Just some food for thought.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-09-04 23:41
One of my students used her school's Eb some years ago and boy did I covet that after she brought it in to a lesson. It was a nice older Selmer (was a "pro" model; can't remember model/year) which really really sounded sooooo smoooooooth! Don't rule out the Selmers even if you belong to the Buffet Mafia (as I do)!
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-09-05 01:47
I just checked out a Patricola Eb from the school. It has a B44 mouthpiece. It's a really nice instrument...I'm just probably going to have to share it with the guy playing Eb in orchestra (not that I have a problem with that as long as scheduales line up). The school also has an old Buffet. He's going to get that one out so we can play around with both instruments and see which one we like. If it comes down to it (which it probably will), we'll share the Patricola.
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Author: claribari
Date: 2008-09-07 23:23
I say if you want one then get one. If you plan on playing an Eb later in life then you should get one as soon as you can afford it in your budget, as every clarinet is slightly different. I just got a Buffet Bb a couple months ago, but I'm still going to use my Leblanc for All-State tryouts just because my fingers hit the keys slightly differently on the Buffet compared to the Leblanc. As a result, my pinkies tend to slip every now and then. So I say get one. It will be a good investment anyway.
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Author: eefer ★2017
Date: 2008-09-08 04:21
I have two very nice eefers. One is a Patricola rosewood (Lomax Classic mouthpiece - $189 US) and the other is a Buffet R-13 (Morales/Backum mouthpiece - $489 US). The have both been customized by Morrie Backun. The Patricola is nice for chamber music because it has a sweet sound that isn't penetrating. The Buffet is better for orchestra or large halls because it can deliver when I really need a powerful horn.
The Greg Smith mouthpiece ($250 US and up) is a good choice to start with, especially for the Patricola clarinet. It has good response and pitch control and not a lot of resistance. After you learn to play the horn well you will probably want something a bit more resistant though. It will help keep the high notes up to pitch without having to resort to popsicle-stick reeds and biting.
When I first started on eefer, I used #5 traditional Vandorens. Now I use #3 Bb reeds that I cut down or adjusted #3.5 traditional Vandorens (but only in a pinch). Good luck with your search and be patient. Choosing an eefer is not like choosing a Bb clarinet. You really need to wait until you have 6 or more months playing under your belt before you start your serious search. But trying eefers out when you come upon them now is a good way to appreciate the differences among the choices.
Nancy Buckman
AACC Symphony Orchestra
Opera AACC
Early Music Society of Northern MD
(and a lot of other ensembles, too)
nebuckman@gmail.com
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-09-08 14:08
Marshall,
Congratulations on joining the ranks of the Eefers! It is such fun. In some ways you are very lucky to be getting into Eefer this way as you can play test the school horns and sort of decide on the sort of horn you like best. I would agree that a 6 month trial might be good before you buy your own. Some Bb players hate the Eefer so this will save you the investment if you are in this club. I do think it gives you more opportunities for positions in all sorts of groups. People seem to be amazed that I can play it well!
Nancy's experiences and mine are similar as far as reeds. I used the VanDoren 5's Eb reeds (they no longer make them at this strength for Eefer) but have gone to a Gonzalez FOF 3 1/2 Bb reed that I have cut down for the Eefer mouthpiece. You can do this simply by cutting cane from the stub with scissors or a knife. Be sure it is a bit wet or it will tend to splinter. Use an Eefer reed to know how far to cut.
I started with Eefer and play primarily Eefer so I find I have a problem on Bb playing the altissimo notes as they sound TOO LOW to me. My friends that play primarily Bb have the opposite problem in that the notes don't sound just right. Now I sort of mentally prepare myself when I switch to Bb. Oddly enough switching to alto, basset horn or bass I don't feel that way. Guess they feel enough different.
I play a Buffet Prestige Eefer and love it. What i like over other Eefers I've played is its ability to play ppp in the altissimo range yet have enough beef to play fff too. Right now I'm using a Fobes Eefer mouthpiece but I've had very good luck with Grabner and Lomax ones. In fact on some pieces I use these others for a different sort of sound.
One thing I would suggest is buying Peter Hadcock's Eb excerpt book. Besides the excerpts it has a number of fingering suggestions, some that i have never seen elsewhere. it is well worth the money for the fingerings alone and you can practice ll the wicked orchestral Eefer parts. Best to have practiced Daphnis & Chloe a good bit before you see it appear on your stand!
Eefer guy
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-09-09 01:07
Updates as of today -
The Eb clarinetist in the orchestra checked out the Buffet today. It looks quite old (I'll get the serial number later) but I personally like it more than the Patricola because it's more responsive (especially in the altissimo), easier to articulate, easier to play in tune, and it's much easier to project with. I also think it's easier to get the tone I want (I personally think that the Eb should usually sound like a Bb except higher...that's probably just the school of thought I've generally been in thusfar). It matches my R13 Bb quite nicely.
Right now I'm actually using cut-down Bb reeds. I had a box of Vandoren Whitemasters lying that I've had for about two years, and they were never going to be used anyway, so I cut them down. They actually work quite nicely. They fit the mouthpiece well and play much better than other Eb reeds I've tried.
I can't afford a Prestige :p.
The library here has a copy of the Hadcock Eb book. I currently have it in my posession (it actually is in my bag an arms length away). I'm going to try to work on the Symphonie Fantastique excerpt...probably starting tomorrow.
I think I'm going to work up the Bb Daphnis part before the Eb part :p. I do own a copy of The Working Clarinetist.
Thanks for all the words of wisdom! More will be welcome
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2008-09-09 23:22
Not to start anything, but just something related to the last few posts I remembered from an Eb masterclass with Nuccio....."Don't buy an Eb until you can afford a RC Prestige".
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-10 01:35
...And others will tell you that the R13 is a better horn for being less strident. You have to try and find what's best for you.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: woodwind650
Date: 2008-09-10 05:04
hey marshall
i would agree with Ryan25, you can't go wrong with a Vandoren B44. i just tried a batch of them and found a real gem! it's resonant and articulation is great, all for under $80. I was using an expensive hand-made Zinner blank made by a reputable maker, and the 'doren plays much more comfortably for me. give 'em a try.
i use the regular Vandoren blue box reeds for eefer. haven't tried cutting Bb's. i know morrie backun makes a barrel now that has a notch cut out so that you can use regular Bb reeds without cutting them, but that's somewhere further down the road for me at the moment.
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