 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2008-05-20 15:17
I have been studying clarinet with a very fine university professor for two years. He uses the Galper method books and the Rose Etudes. He has me play very slowly. I must admit that I have improved, and when I go back to some of the earlier exercises I play them better now than before, but there is no consistency from one time to another. Some days I am very accurate at covering the holes and others I just can't seem to do anything right. He tells me that I am doing well, but at this rate it seems as though it will be foreever until I can play dependably. Is this typical?
I was a sax player first, and I know that it is more difficult to go from that the clarinet because the sax is so forgiving as far as improper hand position. I am willing to persevere if I know that this is par for the course. any comments, especially from teachers would be appreciated.
Leonard
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-05-20 18:04
I'll bet that if you recall carefully, you'll remember that your sax learning had up and down days, too. I think inconsistency is part of the learning process. Somedays, everything works (too seldom, if you're self critical), and sometimes its all crap! For me, and probably for most others, too.
Congratulations on being able to put your fingers in the right place on your clarinet. I've mentioned here before my tragic inability to being a superbly competent alto sax player over to clarinetting!
Bob Phillips
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-20 18:37
Leonard - the Clarinet is quite a bit more difficult than the Sax so you are right on par. I teach many, many young Clarinetists who take up the Sax to play in Jazz Band and they pick it up quite quickly. The Sax players who add Clarinet almost always have a much harder time, but eventually get it fine too.
Practicing and taking your time warming up, then playing the studies slowly will get your fingers programed to go where they are supposed to. It will take some time, but not forever!
Two years is still in the "walking" stage for many.
But enjoy the journey as that can be as fun as the destination if you allow it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-05-20 21:02
I think it depends on your age and how much you practice the clarinet. If you’re doing a couple hours a day or half hour a day will make a hugh difference. Every person has a different learning curve. I’ve had students like Ricardo Morales the learned everything I told him, or showed him, almost instantly and I’ve had others that it would take days, weeks, or even months to grasp. I’ve always felt that the best way to learn the clarinet for a sax, or anyone else for that matter is to hit the scales. I would highly suggest the Baermann Book three scale book or perhaps the David Hite version, Artistic Studies book two Pub. By Southern, in your case. Spend at least a half hour a day doing several of the studies through the various keys. If you have any ability at all you should start getting control in a short time. Good luck, ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-05-21 20:39
Leonard -
If your fingers aren't reliably covering the holes after two years, something's wrong. It should be as if there's radar in your fingertips that makes them come down the same place every time.
You may be making a gripping motion, curving and uncurving your fingers as you play. Instead, you should move your fingers only from the knuckle, letting your fingertips drop as lightly as possible. Also, your fingers should rise only about 1/2" and should not move to the side, but only up and down.
Imagine you're trying to conceal your finger movements from the audience. Films of Charlie Parker show his fingers never came off the keys, no matter how fast he played.
Practice in front of a mirror. You’ll probably see lots of excess movement you didn't know you were making.
Work on this and then ask your teacher at your next lesson to watch your fingers to find out why you're not covering the holes.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2008-05-21 21:28
I started on sax, had two years of clarinet lessons, stopped playing for 15 years, then joined a community band on clarinet. After a few years I could play both instruments equally well.
I suggest you find a community band that will tolerate your level of clarinet ability and join. Don't tell them you play sax until you are comfortable on clarinet. You will play more interesting music than your lessons and get instant feedback as to whether or not your playing is improving. You will also meet other clarinetists who will make suggestions that you will find helpful.
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Author: jimk
Date: 2008-05-21 21:51
I support the idea of joining a community band. I'm a fair clarinet player trying to improve my sax skills. I joined a band just for the purpose of playing sax. My agreement with the director is that I get to play sax during rehearsals. If he needs me to play clarinet for a performance, I'll add myself to the clarinet section. The band gets another sax and a clarinetist available if needed.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-05-22 10:03
Well, all learning has plateaux. You get to a certain stage and get stuck for a bit. Perfectly normal. Something will come along to kick you out of it. Like joining a band, as suggested above.
Clarinet and sax are different instruments. I remember the day I borrowed a friend's straight sop sax thinking 'it's just a big metal clarinet, it'll be easy...' :-P
Most complaints with fingering are with the little finger (pinky) keys, but hey, the others have work to do too. Everything starts with the thumbs. Elbows in, don't flap; hold the wrists and thumbs up so everything is roughly horizontal where it meets the instrument, like gently holding a glass. Try and find a position where the fingers naturally fall over the holes without having to reach.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-05-22 13:01
That plateau period may seem frustrating, but it's an important stage of the learning process. That's when we're consolidating the new things we've learned, as the brain moves those new skills out of short-term memory and into long-term memory. If you ever have to stop playing for a few days or a few weeks, you'll find that those older skills--the ones you learned before the last plateau period--come back to you much faster than the newer skills. Persevere through those plateaus--think of them as your brain's equivalent of the computer backing up your hard drive. You can't see what's happening in there while you're sitting with the annoying "wait" symbol on the screen, but the computer's busy protecting the data.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2008-05-22 15:43
Thank you for these helpful and encouraging comments. I do play in a community band but they need me on alto sax and have plenty of clarinets. I may be able to get them to let me visit the clarinet section sometimes. I think that is a good idea.
I do agree with Ken that there is probably excess finger movementm, usually as a result of reaching fora pinky key or throat key and then not reteurning to the home position. I do keep them fairly close to the keys, however.
When I look back at where I was a year ago I can see progress. I just wish it weren't so slow, but now that I know that at least with some people who make it that is par for the course, I can accept it.
Leonard
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2008-05-22 19:36
Leonard,
You are clearly more experienced than I, certainly in your years as a saxophone player. And two years of clarinet lessons no doubt have made you far more formidable than you let on.
As someone returning to the clarinet after many decades--but with only limted experience in each of two prior attempts--I can sympathize. But in seven months working with a dedicated and supportive teacher I have reached a point that allows me to see progress, however uneven it may be. I am starting to have a reliable sound to my playing (on an old plastic Selmer Signet), and I can make my teacher's R13 sound pretty good, too. The scales and etudes are a joy to play and play well, not a burden.
But since I have a day job, one that keeps me busy 11 to 12 hours at a stretch, I'm limited in my practicing to 90 minutes or two hours each morning. I'd love to see my way clear to playing in an ensemble of some kind, but that will be a while yet. Schedules are difficult to juggle, as yours must be.
Our experiences are different, but I urge you to stick with it. Speed and accuracy is my unmet goal for now. It won't come till I can manage things very well at a more moderate tempo. But I do see the possibilities. I'll get there, and you'll surely be well ahead of me.
Getting there is half the fun, as a previous contributor pointed out.
Best of luck.
Post Edited (2008-05-22 19:57)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-05-23 13:11
> I may be able to get them to let me visit the clarinet section sometimes.
The other thing you can do is get together a quartet. Worked wonders for my own playing.
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Author: Nancy_S
Date: 2008-05-25 15:02
I really enjoyed reading this post because I have also been re-learning the clarinet for almost two years, after a long period of time away from it. My teacher is amazing and I practice quite a bit but it has taken a very long time for all of it to synthesize. There is so much to think about: embouchure, articulation(s), air flow, intonation, covering the holes, reed fixing, etc.
After almost two years, I can now play two or three consecutive measures of a Rose Etude and feel it all coming together. I know this sounds like a small accomplishment but the first time it happened, I was ecstatic. All of the things my wonderful teacher had been drilling into my head were momentarily all working and it sounded and felt like a dream come true.
In high school, I played with reckless abandon including fingers flailing, and poor articulation but remember having a beautiful tone and expression. Sometimes I worry that I'm overly analytical now and maybe trying too hard. I tell my teacher that I don't sound as good as I did in High School but she tends to think I just remember that I played better.
I have also noticed that it works better for me to practice for shorter periods of time, like 30 to 45 minutes but really concentrate.
So don't be discouraged. It takes a long time...
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2008-05-25 19:12
I suspect that the learning curve for clarinet playing is no different from those curves used in the manufacturing industry to study worker output. An example paper is shown as follows:
http://www.directives.doe.gov/pdfs/doe/doetext/neword/430/g4301-1chp21.pdf
If we take graph 21-1 and plot playing competence (y axis) running from 100% at 0 up to a maximum of 0% and plot total practice hours along the x axis we get something that would give us a general idea of what is happening. For example when we are young we practice about 1 hour day or 350 hours a year. As we get older we tend to practice more but because of the curve increase in competence is at a much slower rate.
Note that using a logarithmic scale means 100% perfection is approached only after an infinite number of practice hours. This curve would certainly slide up and down based on talent or maybe it just reduces the number of practice hours required to achieve a certain level of competence. Age too has a lot to do with your ability to learn and will certainly move the curve, for example it might take a 60 year old 1000 hours to learn what a 10 year does in 350. If I had to guess a competent HS player would have likely put in some 3000 hours of practice by age 18.
At age 64 I've put in approximately 3000 hours since age 60 and am no where close to the competence level achieved as a HS Senior after expending approximately the same number of practice hours. I stopped playing at age 18 and never touched a clarinet for 42 years so was pretty much at ground zero when I started again.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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The Clarinet Pages
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