 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-02-12 18:02
Isn't Harlequin by Stockhausen also a dance sequence as well?
David Dow
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-02-12 18:35
to: Mr Blumberg:
But the Rossini is played by yet another clarinetist, is it not?
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2008-02-12 23:30
There's no business like show business. If the audience pays for it and likes it it's good.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-02-13 00:21
"80 percent of my repertoire is the classic core repertoire - 20 percent of the music I play is always looking forward". Frost.
Based on his contribution to the 20 percent bit, I don't know how one could classify what's on the YouTube promotional as anything other than sensational...whether one likes that type of blending of choreography with music or not.
I would like to hear the other 80 percent. Based on the competitions that I've judged and the recitals/programs that I've heard either in concert or on recording, rarely, if ever, have I heard a mature and moving musical personality that straddles both categories.
It's similar to orchestra auditions that demand that one plays equally well in both the solo and the excerpt repertoire. There are many fine players who play fine solos followed by lackluster orchestral excepts or the other way around. Not quite the same thing but a little simile to further illustrate my point.
Gregory Smith
http://www.gregory-smith.com
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-02-13 01:23
Really good...
Although that's not exactly the high bar that I was speaking of, is it impressive to the same degree as that other 20 percent that he talks about and clearly demonstrates, at least during his promotional on YouTube?
If the Mozart and Copland truly measure up to what one would honestly describe as meaningful, moving, and conveying the essence of the composer, (and he simultaneously lives up to the demands of the other 20 percent of the rep which we only hear snippets of in the promotional), he is a unique creature indeed - at least as far as I'm aware.
I suppose that each decides those essential questions about musical accomplishment and depth for themselves...hopefully in this day and age based on live performance instead of heavily edited recordings.
Gregory Smith
http://www.gregory-smith.com
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-02-13 01:42
Martin Frost is the real deal, ask Alphie
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=169038&t=169038
Ricardo Morales is the real deal, Michael Rusinek is the real deal, Alessandro Carbonare is the real deal, Philippe Cuper is the real deal, Tony Pay is the real deal, Sabine Meyer, Julian Bliss, Bela Kovacs, Paul Meyer, Karl Leister, the list goes on and on and on...
Name any working professional today and dare to claim they are flukes.
You can't make it today in the professional world without the chops. Martin Frost would not have the career he has if he wasn't a gifted musician.
Every once in a while somebody comes along and decide to do something a little different and we are always a little quick at calling names.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-02-13 01:50
I'm sorry Sylvain, but the topic was made (I had hoped) a little less broad than that.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the question that was posed, at least in my previous posts, was more of a particular nature having to do with quality of performance across all time periods/styles of the repertoire for the present day clarinettist. This having nothing to do with commercial success.
Gregory Smith
http://www.gregory-smith.com
Post Edited (2008-02-13 01:53)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-02-13 03:35
I have a number of Frost's more "classical" recordings. In fact, the only CD of mine that has one of his more modern works is the pairing of the Nielsen and Aho concertos. Judging those recordings on their own, I have to say that he is one of the premier soloists in the world today. His Mozart CD is excellent in its own right and his Brahms Sonatas and Trio CD is among the very best available. I'm sure that there are plenty of US clarinetists who would pick apart little facets of his tone, but his sound translates as well as all but the best examples of pure sound. His interpretations, particularly in Weber, are very refreshing and without fail virtuosic. As a strictly classical player, he stands on his own.
His forays into modern compositions and commissions only further enhances his standing today. Even putting aside what I call his "stage" pieces, he has branched out and actually contributed something to the repertoire. This is something that used to be considered essential for soloists of "serious" music. Combining that influence with his stage performances and classical abilities, I believe it is fair to say that he is one of the great clarinet soloists alive. He is VERY highly regarded in Europe for these very reasons.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-02-13 04:26
Some musicians come to the conclusion that the style of specific music is ireleavant to whether it's good or not. Then if they start to listen to a lot of "weird" types of music then they might eventually understand objectively if the music is good or not in each specific style, regardless of what it is. So I can't imagine someone who understand the "weird" music that Martin Frost is playing in that clip saying it is "crap", "psychotic", etc. Some of the modern music in that clip is is at the highest level done today. Of course this has nothing to do with personal taste which is subjective. Maybe many people can't seperate...? I would definitely be more interested to hear an explaination of why it's "crap", "psychotic" and "creepy" because right now it is impossible to know if the people saying these things understand the music or not.
Maybe since I've been playing a lot of more experimental music and also do stuff like improvisation with dancers, including sometimes dancing too, then I'm more used to it. It doesn't matter to me if someone is playing a classical piece from centuries ago or a modern piece with dancing, costumes, atonal, etc. or anything else. What's important is the logic and ideas in the specific music.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-02-13 06:18
On Swiss radio (DRS2) they have an afternoon show in which different performances of the same work are compared by a panel of "experts". The panel are not told who the performers are on the 5 recordings chosen (neither are the public), until at the end. Last week the work chosen was the Mozart clarinet concerto. I found it very interesting to listen "blind" to different recordings of the Mozart like that.
It turned out the the "winner" as chosen by the panel (which included one professional clarinetist and one professional conductor) was Martin Fröst. I found his Mozart recording really beautiful, elegant and moving. The other players were Emma Johnson, Andrew Marriner, Eric Hoeprich and Lorenzo Coppola. (2nd place went to Eric Hoeprich and 3rd the Andrew Marriner
Whether or not one values the judgement of this specific panel, one has to say that Fröst can certainly hold his own in the classical repertoire compared to other top soloists. (To be honest I thought all along that the Fröst recording was Sabine Meyer!!)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-02-13 07:43
just curious, what does he play on? in addition to his great skills that is.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-02-13 10:01
The CDs are available to listen to so everyone can judge for himself. If you are fortunate enough to have heard him live then that will add a dimension to appraising his ability. There is not much need for speculating about it on a thread without having listened to much of what is available.
I can recommend his Brahms Sonatas disc and a disc of Pendereski music. I have heard him live in the Aho, and one other chamber concert. I was not thrilled by his very hurried Kegelstatt, but that aside I find it difficult to say anything negative about the music.
Of course, he does move around a hell of alot irrespective of what he plays, but then, so does Sabine Meyer and Emma Johnson, so he is not alone in that.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-13 12:24
Liquorice, that's cool that they have a show like that. There used to be a show titled "music by comparison" which took excerpts of Orchestral works and side by side compared them. That was a great show.
I remember that they ripped into Gigliotti big time on his Bartok Concerto solo in mvt 4.
The Dancing/Clarinetist style I just am not into. Doesn't do a thing for me. I like some modern music, but am selective. Love the Corigliano Concerto, hate Harlequin......
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2008-02-13 14:01
I think there may be a schism between music played for musicians (and cognoscenti) and familiar works. Stravinsky started fist-fights between ladies.
Somewhere between works containing the harmonic content of a poorly tuned diesel engine and WWE Smackdown falls the stuff that sells recordings.
I think the prancing is a stage-borne expression of pure joy in the performer.
It probably helps sell tickets in an otherwise dull medium.
Even the Met has begun to put a bit more life (and motion) into it's stage performances (younger, capable actors to sing) in a return to the theatricality of Opera. More action, less "parking and barking".
Bottom line - if patrons part with their own money to attend, it's successful.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-02-13 14:51
>just curious, what does he play on? in addition to his great skills that is.<
Tosca/Kaspar
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-13 15:08
I think the prancing is a stage-borne expression of pure joy in the performer.
----------------------------------------
Too dramatic-ish for me. Then again, I'm not a fan of a lot contemporary techniques either.
Very much of a traditionalist.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-02-16 20:53)
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-02-13 15:23
Gregory:
Get his recordings and let us know what you think. He has recorded Weber, Brahms, Mozart, Schumann, Nielsen, etc...
Most of it on the BIS label.
Last I heard he played a Tosca and/or a Chadash.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2008-02-13 15:51
I'm curious; when did God ordain that feet planted solidly on the ground was the only correct way to perform? There's nothing wrong with spectacle - Aristotle knew that.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-03-07 20:11
Sylvain:
many thanks for this. I have not heard anything in the same sphere in which this artist dwells.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-03-07 20:56
You're very welcome, all the credit goes to ClariPeru, they often post gems on youtube. You can subscribe to their video feeds and they will let you know when something new is up....
http://www.youtube.com/Clariperu
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-08 18:24
>>Isn't Harlequin by Stockhausen also a dance sequence as well?
>>
>>David L. Dow
>>
I think you're right. He wrote some dance compositions for sax. At the 2006 International Saxophone Symposium, a talented young man played one of these for a master class.
Apparently, the instructions tell the performer to choose an attitude (a body position) for himself and for the saxophone, for each note, and to repeat that attitude each time that note is played--right or left for pitch and up or down for volume. The young man, who had an unusual, interesting face with a whimsical (and somewhat detached) expression, made himself look robotic, like a mechanical doll, and made it appear that the sax moved him instead of the other way around. Entrancing performance--I loved it, after never expecting to love anything by Stockhausen.
I never "got" Stockhausen at all until this class, but it's stayed with me and convinced me that Stockhausen's kinesthetic music must be seen, not just heard. The teacher took the college student through parts of the piece and wanted a radically different interpretation. He instructed the student to drop the robotic movements and swoop gracefully into the attitudes--all of which the teacher changed! The student had more than enough modern dance ability to comply with these changes. The teacher was a gifted one and his interpretation looked valid to me, too--and for all I know it may have been more historically valid (I don't know what Stockhausen himself asked for)--but the student's interpretation is the one my memory sees and hears clearly today, even though I've forgotten which of the guest performers taught the master class. I wish I'd realized at the time that this would become my most vivid recollection of the Symposium, because I failed to make a note of the student's name or even the name of the composition. I find myself hoping that young man went home and forgot everything the teacher showed him!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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