 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-01-27 15:54
In the Chicago opening thread, the following opinion was offered:
"I'd think that they would want someone under 40 years old who's a monster. Over 50 would really be pushing it I'd guess. Highly doubt that anyone under 30 will get it."
I didn't think anything of that as I read it, but then I happened to read in the latest BBC magazine the article about the Vienna Phil, which referred to "the orchestra's view that musicians over 35 lack the flexibility to adapt".
Well, it's obvious that many musicians' abilities decline with age, but then again, many maintain an extremely high level well past the standard retirement age. Continuing practice seems vital, as well as maintenance of health.
I've been told by a relative, a talented singer who while raising a family put aside her career ambitions but maintained her voice, that trying to enter the professional ranks in her late 50's is, well, long and hard.
How objective are the standards for landing high-level pro jobs, especially as concerns age?
- Phil, 55
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-01-27 16:23
"I've been told by a relative, a talented singer who while raising a family put aside her career ambitions but maintained her voice, that trying to enter the professional ranks in her late 50's is, well, long and hard."
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An extreme long shot. Since I posted what you quoted, I'll explain what I perceive the situation to be:
I would see the Orchestra wanting someone to take the gig and keep it for many years. Figuring that between 65-70 is the max that a major orchestra would want to keep a principal player someone in their mid 50's would not hold it for very long. That's why Hadcock left Boston to take a teaching job as he was thinking of the next 20 years and his young child going to college (as he put it in a ClarFest masterclass).
Of course there's Drucker who's held it forever, but I'm speaking about current direction/trends.
Gigliotti didn't retire on his own, it was Wolfgang Savallisch who put "the hit" on several of the Phila. Orch senior members. He didn't make it friendly at all for them.
So a fantastic player at 55 I wouldn't think would have much of a shot at the job.
Older players DO have hearing loss, I'd wonder what Drucker's hearing loss is.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2008-01-27 16:48
Phil 55: When the Vienna Phil says "musicians over 35 lack the flexibility to adapt" it probably means that the most talented candidate for one of their slots is a woman who is over 35.
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Author: D
Date: 2008-01-27 18:59
and recently married and has a ticking biological clock?
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Author: William
Date: 2008-01-27 20:07
Age discrimination--I felt in a couple of years ago during a long distance conversation with the personal manager for the rock group, Nine Inch Nails. They needed a bari sax player with a "big" sound for a show scheduled in a couple of months and all went very well until he asked, "How old are you?" I replied "60"--there was a long pause at his end.....followed by, "I'll call you back if we need you". Didn't get the gig because I was too old.
Eventually, their show was cancelled anyhow--something about ticket sales........
Post Edited (2008-01-27 20:18)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-01-28 12:51
>>and all went very well until he asked, "How old are you?" I replied "60"--there was a long pause at his end.....followed by, "I'll call you back if we need you". Didn't get the gig because I was too old.
>>
Moral of the story: Next time, lie. Only half-kidding.
When it's a one-time gig scheduled for right now and the band's not looking for a Stanley Drucker who'll start there at age 19 and stay around for another 60 years, the only valid criteria for hiring or not hiring are whether or not your personality seems compatible and how well you play--right now. If the band did say no solely because you said "60," that's plain old bigotry.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-01-28 13:20
It happens all the time in pop, rock - it's all about apperance. I'd bet if it were a jazz group it would have gone differently.
Heck, there are plenty of old timers touring in rock currently!!
Can't tell you how many times I've been told that a lead female singer was 26 when she was really 36. It's a real shame that 30 seems to be a magical number when it comes to pop gigs. Again, it's all about image and not about talent which is a real shame.
Hey William, next time they ask how old you are just tell em "well, I'm old enough to be around alcohol if you were worried about that"...... 
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-01-28 13:28
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Heck, there are plenty of old timers touring in rock
> currently!!
When the 50's doo-wop group Jimmy Beaumont and the Skyliners ("Since I Don't Have You") did a local show here, they hired myself (on alto sax) and 3 others from our big band to provide back-up horns for their arrangements.
We fit in just fine ...GBK
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2008-01-28 14:26
If my math is correct, the Cahuzac performances, brought to our attention in a recent post, were made when he was about 50 years old.
I'd hire him to play in my orchestra.
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2008-01-28 19:46
< Again, it's all about image and not about talent which is a real shame. >
Golly, David, we're talking about rock music here . . . there some very talented folks in that genre, but just as many, or more, with no discernable talent. It is impossible to distinguish between the twain based on the pop charts, so it must be age that defines who is and who ain't!??!!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-01-29 15:12
Hey, David, did you go to that Eddie Daniels jazz clinic at the Saxophone Symposium? The bassist looked about 30, maybe younger, but the drummer and the pianist were definitely past the half-century mark. Daniels won't pass for a child prodigy any more, either. Played like maniacs. I mean that in a good way!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2008-01-29 15:22
Oh dear , I only took up playing the clarinet at age 70. Not much hope for me, then, is there ?
Alan
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