 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-04-16 18:12
When I decided to take uo the clarinet as a retirement project a year and a half ago I had no expectations other than to play at home and maybe play a few duets with my wife, who plays the piano. So ... I bought a professional wood model - Buffet R13 - with the idea that I would bypass the student-intermediate path of upgrading as I went along.
I never anticipated joining a local military band, which I've just done, or the inevitable question of whether or not I should play my prized possession outdoors. I live in western Massachusetts and will be playing in outdoor bandshell settings though July this summer. We have one September engagement on a flatbed truck in a parade. (Of course, if this turns out well, I might be encouraged to join other bands as well, so who know what the future may bring.)
My questions:
1. Do I need to be concerned about taking my R13 outdoors in these conditions?
2. If yes, I see several possibilities:
A. Get a synthetic Buffet (e.g., B12) under the assumption that it will essentially like playing my R13
B. Try to find a used or not-yet-sold Vito V40 (I've heard good things about it)
C. Try a Ridenour with the possibility that I might actually prefer it to my R13
D. Find something inexpensive on eBay with the idea that the 3rd clarinet position is going to be drowned out by the brass anyway
If I found Aladdin's lamp and had a wish or two, I'd wish for something squeakproof.
TIA,
Al
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-04-16 18:23
Get a Vito/Yamaha or similar plastic instrument. You don't really care about sheer purity of sound when playing marches - but you'd care about the weight of the apparatus, especially when equipped with lyre and score book.
Plus, if you happen to drop your horn when slipping on a bit of horse output, you don't send thousands down the drain.
If your outdoor activities are limited to sit-ins, things look a bit different, of course.
--
Ben
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-04-16 19:18
Good points. At the moment we're only talking about sit-ins. But who know what the future will bring. I've already been surprised once.
Al
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-04-16 19:19
"drop your horn when slipping on a bit of horse output, you don't send thousands down the drain."
I would have never thought of that .. but then I haven't marched in a couple decades .....
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Author: larryb
Date: 2007-04-16 19:50
Play your R13 outdoors!
Clarinets were made for outdoor playing - some of the best music written for the clarinet were meant for outdoor playing (see: 18th/19th Century Harmonie music, Mozart Serenades, etc.)
Any time in Western Massachusetts from Mother's Day to the end of September will be fine.
If it's somehow damaged by the elements (not likely), buy a new one. Above all, have no fear.
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2007-04-16 20:25
I agree with larryb. I've played my wooden horns outside for 32 years and never had a problem. I don't play when it is under 60 or above 105, but as long as it isn't raining on the horn itself, I haven't had a problem.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-04-16 22:31
I'm with LonDear & larryb. I play my "classic-era" R13 (made in 1969) outdoors all the time, and again, not in extreme temps or in direct sunlight.
Of course, the instrument was 14 years old when I took possession, so I assume it had been properly seasoned by that time.
Katrina
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-04-16 22:41
I would advise not to let the mouthpiece get too much direct sun exposure.
as far as the clarinet, do what those around you do. If the rest of the section buys plastic for safty then maybe they know. I haven't played outdoors for years, and I was on sax then.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-04-16 22:52
> I haven't played outdoors for years, and I was on sax then.
Are there plastic saxes? ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-04-16 22:57
Thanks for the input. I'll just sit tight till I hear what others are doing. I don't expect any cold temps during our season, and I wouldn't expect anyone to ask us to play in the rain. The one unknown is the parade gig where we'll be on the back of a flatbed truck. We could be exposed on that day, but I have all summer to find out more.
Al
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Author: Neil
Date: 2007-04-17 00:02
Down here in Florida we played a midday midsummer gig a couple of years ago. By the end of it, the wooden horns had oil sweating out of them (I brung my Vito) but I don't know that this is actually injurious. Summers up in Mass are less brutal and probably wouldn't cause you any trouble. Next time the Pops plays Tanglewood, see what those guys are using.
Ben - there's a plastic sax on display at the Jazz museum in Kansas City. I think Charlie Parker played it over in England.
Post Edited (2007-04-17 01:54)
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Author: DougR
Date: 2007-04-17 01:10
Well, for what it's worth, I played a city-wide concert series one entire summer on a flip-out semitrailer, and it was hot, sweaty, muggy, rainy (we were sheltered in the trailer, of course) and buggy. Both my R-13 A and Bb came thru fine. I think you'll find the biggest peril will be inhaling a flying insect (don't laugh, it does happen)!
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-04-17 01:47
plastic saxes were very well made and had a great sound. the fact that they were light was great news for many, but they weren't popular as people were always worried about their fragility when dropped. dents can be fixed but this horn would shatter.
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-04-17 02:53
Well, I just grabbed a Vito V40 on eBay for $65. That should be a nice backup in case we get some wierd weather. At that price, why not? Normally, summers here in Western Mass are pretty nice with only a few days in the 90s, so I probably shouldn't worry.
Al
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-04-17 03:52
Buy a metal clarinet (a good one, that is -- there are some very fine metal clarinets, but many more junk ones). Then all you have to worry about is lightning strikes...............
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2007-04-17 04:25
I live in the KC MO. area and have four R 13's for indoor play ( 2 A's, 2 Bbs). Our orchestra always plays the 4th of July concert at Powell Garden's which is outdoors, of course.
Our summers can be brutal here in the Midwest. Horrible heat and thunderstorms that are fearce. I got caught playing my beautiful, old, classic Buffet in the worst Midwest thunderstorm two summers ago and decided I needed a different instrument!! I promptly got online and won a Master Model ES for $350. It's wood, plays beautifully and is my back up to the back up.
I play principal in the summer and sometimes there are a significant number of solos. I don't want to play them on a plastic clarinet. I played the nice little solo in Zampa last summer on the MM and it worked great. It was super hot that day so I find the old, used wooden one to be an anwer to the very question the poster posed. If you aren't worried about your clarinet you have a lot more fun playing those great outdoor gigs. I was always worried about my R 13 in the elements and then the unthinkable did happen on that one concert. It's not worth the worry. Get an old one and stop worrying...well except for that whole bug thing which I have done too. Ick.
Rebecca
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-04-17 05:48
"have four R 13's for indoor play ( 2 A's, 2 Bbs).
and is my back up to the back up......"
whoa.... getting the impression of insecurity.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2007-04-17 06:17
I use a Buffet Crampon B10 for outdoor playing, gives me a relaxed feeling knowing that my Opus II isn't going to fall or crack do extreme temperature change. I have to say that the B10 is a very nice horn to play on, it’s very free blowing and doesn’t sound that very different either than a wooden one.
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2007-04-17 06:37
"whoa.... getting the impression of insecurity."
No insecurities here, just blessed. I have the original R 13 my dad bought me in 1974 and I'll never sell it. I also have the 1976 R 13 A clarinet that I bought four years ago when I first started playing in an orchestra. It's a pretty close match even though it's not officially a "matched" set so I'm keeping them together.
I played one R 13 Bb for 32 years and then my very benevolent father took me down to the OU Symposium last summer and bought me a new set of R 13 Festivals. I'm keeping my old set for sentimental reasons. That now adds up to four when I only had one for 32 years. I suppose you could call that insecure if you want. I call it blessed to have a father as giving as he is.
I do play all of them...just not outdoors : ) That's what the MM is for. I thought someone else could benefit from the advice to play an older wooden clarinet. I loan it out to students who have their instruments in the shop too so it gets a lot of use. I loan my extra A out to my high school students who are in orchestra to make their lives a little easier when they're playing in 5 and 6 sharps. Clarinets aren't trophies, they're instruments and should be played. All of mine are played.
Best regards,
Rebecca
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-04-17 07:02
> plastic saxes
Cool, didn't know that. What "plastic" were they made from anyway? I know that there are sousaphones made of fiberglass, but saxes?
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-17 10:16
Grafton acrylic altos - they were made post-WWII in London, even Charlie Parker played one!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2007-04-18 01:32
Just play the thing... just don't get it wet!
I used to worry about this all the time until I realised that I blow hot most air into it for hours a day, what could be worse than that?!
Also, if it cracks... who really cares? it's not that difficult to repair most cracks now anyways.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2007-04-18 01:33
By the way... excellent progress in only a year and a half. It sounds like a retirement project that really took off. Congrats!
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-04-18 02:04
Well, I don't know how much progress I've made, but I AM having fun and that's the important thing for me.
Al
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Author: Cindyr
Date: 2007-04-18 19:39
I guess it comes down to the "what ifs." I just purchased a 1986 B-12 (one owner, in very good condition) for the purpose of having a horn to take with me everywhere, and to play in our band's upcoming outdoor concerts. This was after reading the horror story in the archives here of someone dropping their Selmer Series 10, and it never being the same again, even after it being repaired. Would I be sick if that happened to my Series 9? The answer was yes, so it was enough to purchase a plastic horn for me.
Another source for good used clarinets for me has been Craigslist. You have to be willing to travel a bit, and the horn will probably need some work, but you get to see it before you buy it, which I like.
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-05-30 15:27
I have a Yamaha YCL-26 that I was considering replacing with a newer brushed plastic Buffet B12. I thought that the tone might match wood just a bit better. I have also been using my R13 in park band situations all summer with no problems....and using the Yamaha plastic to march in the 4th of July parade.
Does anyone have experience in comparing the plastic instruments? I just bought a C12 for a backup or for the park band, but I would still like the best plastic possible.
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-05-30 15:44
Kuteclar, I think the old Vito V40 is one of the best plastic clarinets that is sometimes available on ebay. I like the slightly larger bore and the excellent keywork and intonation. You might want to think about the Ridenour hard rubber Lyrique clarinet. It seems to have a lot of great reviews. I have one and would recommend it to anyone wanting the best for playing outdoors and to some extent the best for playing indoors also. Many people have said not to worry about playing outdoors with a wooden clarinet also. I suppose it depends on the climate.
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-05-30 15:51
I'm in Wisconsin - I have played on my R13 outside for years, but always in a band shell, protected mostly. I think it might be the reason why the clarinet IS in such good shape, weathered and no cracks.
I have strongly considered trying a Ridenour or some other rubber instruments, but I have one big question - if sunlight causes hard rubber mouthpieces to discolor rather quickly, wouldn't the entire clarinet looks ashy or that odd greenish? I mean, it's not a big deal, but is it a different material that won't discolor?
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-05-30 15:56
I have played mainly ourdoor concerts for 30 years here in Sunny San Antonio, often in 85-90 degrees. Clarinets are designed to be in tune at about 70 degree ambient. If the air column temperature were to rise 10 degrees above that of the air column design value, the frequency change will be about 1 percent, and the instrument would be noticeably out of tune with itself. (But the audience at beer garden concerts did not seem to mind). I have not had any cracks develop , even in new instruments.
richard smith
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-05-31 18:54
the cracks probably will come if someone tell the band they have to play even if it's some bad weather. then u blow warm air on the inside, while there's cold air on the outside. dont know much. but that doesn't seem to be any good for a wooden clarinet...
get yourself a vito40 just to be on the safe side!! even if the risks are small it would crack, it still may just happen anyway.
atleast i dont think its worth risking with a nice and expencive instrument!!
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-05-31 20:54
Does someone have a picture of the V40 or the insignia? I've checked out the bidding site, but haven't come across one yet. I know people often mismark, so I'd like to know what to look for in case it's described wrong. Thanks!
I also just bought a C12 for outdoor/Park Band use. I have my plastic for bad weather, but for the amount I spend on the C12, it can be my backup for not great weather! I haven't received the clarinet, but I hope it plays up to the standards I've read about!
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-06-01 02:25
Keep checking eBay and such. I picked one up a few months ago for $65. (There were a number of them available at the time.) Make sure it's a V40, not some other Vito model. Figure on taking anything you buy used on the Internet to a good repairman and having it put into top notch shape (ie, overhaul). If an instrument sits around long enough without being played (often the case) you can count on the pads needing replacement and moving parts needing cleaning and lubrication.
Al
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