 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2006-09-21 23:26
I Just came back home from a concert having played Schostacovich 5th symphony and ditto violin concerto. In the 5th I played the Eb part. It’s very demanding as everything for Eb-clarinet by Shostacovich. Since I had no time to practice the part before the rehearsals started I thanked myself for having spent a lot of time years ago learning the special skills to master this instrument. Not only that you have to find solutions instantly in the high register when playing in unison with flute and piccolo, you also need a well worked out technique just to have strength enough to play the piece from A to Z. For example, the last page in the finale contains for more than half a page of an altissimo F# hammering to the end in ff ending with a crescendo. It can kill the most well trained chops with the wrong technique or set-up. Here I find the “flat-and-pointed” technique so often preached on this board fatal. If someone using this “method” on regular clarinet is doing the same on the Eb they’re asking for big trouble.
What I want to say here is how important it is when first handed an Eb clarinet, to get proper guidance from the beginning. Also to find the right combination of reed and mouthpiece is important because that together with proper air support is what’s doing the work for you in the top register. The Eb-clarinet is not just a side instrument, it’s in many ways another instrument, that requires other skills than a regular clarinet to be played properly.
Alphie
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-09-22 00:30
I'm playing the Eb part 5 times this week with the CSO. I'm leaving right now for the 2nd concert. I agree - of all the Eb parts that I've played (that's just about everything in the repertoire), it is the most exhausting because of the last page. And with the CSO, you have to pump out a lot of sound.
What do you mean exactly about the "pointed chin" part? If I do not use this standard technique to maintain the lower lip's cushion (along with plenty of downward pressure with the top lip), the lower lip flattens out and can become bruised or cut rather easily.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2006-09-22 12:17
There is one REALLY awful part with the piccolo in the first movement of the Fifth. It's a simple part (groups of descending notes) but hits all the most out of tune notes on both instruments and at stratospheric pitches for both (concert high Bb for the EEfer). There are recordings where it's even bad! I said prayers that it would come out OK when I did it! The piccolo and I worked on it together, trying alternate fingerings for each note and sitting there with a tuner seeing what pitches were closest. A little vibrato on the pic seems to help too and i used a bit too. The other solos/ sols in that piece are wicked FUN though. I'm sitting here humming them to myself thinking about them!
And yes it really is its own instrument, much as the bass really is too. Peter Hadcock's discussion in his article in the Clarinet years ago really summariuzed it nicely (and reprinted in his Working Clrinetist) describes some of the characteristics that make Eefer unique. It is a good read for anyone playing or conmsidering playing the Eefer.
Eefer guy
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-09-22 17:07
Greg,
If you don't mind, can you say what your set up is?
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-09-22 22:11
Sure Dave -
Buffet R13 Nickel - 7 yrs old (Brannenized).
Buffet-Chadash 41.5mm Barrel
My own standard Eb mouthpiece
V12 3.4 - 4 cut off Bb reeds
Bonade Inverted Eb ligature
(CSO pitch - A = 442)
Gregory Smith
PS. I have a 25 yr old Brannenized Buffet RC Nickel Eb (before they even made "prestige") that I have always used for certain repertoire while in San Francisco and here in the CSO. The CSO/Levine Prokofiev 5th Symphony on DG is one of those examples....
Post Edited (2006-09-22 22:18)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2006-09-24 02:30
Greg wrote:
“What do you mean exactly about the "pointed chin" part? If I do not use this standard technique to maintain the lower lip's cushion (along with plenty of downward pressure with the top lip), the lower lip flattens out and can become bruised or cut rather easily.”
Greg, one difference between European and American clarinet teaching is that there are no Standard Techniques in terms of mouth position or embouchure (the phenomenon “anchor tongue” isn’t known either as far as I know). These matters are dealt with very individually. What I know about the American term “flat and pointed chin” is from what I’ve learned from this board in discussions like:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=180392&t=179876
and when you say: “If I do not use this standard technique to maintain the lower lip's cushion” it confuses me since I thought the whole point was to flatten out the cushion. And if you do that the lip correctly can get bruised or cut.
I don’t use much pressure at all when playing Eb. In orchestra I play a medium/closed Mitchell Lurie crystal MP with fairly hard White Master reeds. This combination is doing most of the work for me in the upper altissimo together with proper air support. What I impose sometimes is some air in the cavity. This makes a nice “air cushion” that creates a “turbo”-effect that can be helpful at times. Right or not? It works splendidly.
Alphie
Clarinet/Eb-clarinet RSPO
Post Edited (2006-09-24 02:35)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-09-24 18:36
Yes, Alphie, I see.
Judging from the contents of the thread that you posted and your response to me, I'm not sure that any meaningful dialogue could be exchanged with exactitude enough for us to understand one another.
This is the stuff of which the devil's in the details and nothing short of a person to person discussion or playing session would suffice. Perhaps we'll rendezvous on a future tour of either of our orchestras?
SKOAL!
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-09-24 18:38)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2006-09-27 17:11
Skål to you too Greg and I’m looking forward to the rendezvous eventually in the future.
This is not only for Greg, I’ll welcome inputs from everybody:
I’m still trying to understand this flat-and-pointed thing. From what I read I certainly come to this conclusion: if you play with a double lip embouchure and maintain the lower lip’s position when putting the front teeth on the mouthpiece you’ll basically have it right!?
Am I right so far, despite my opinion in the earlier attached thread? I admit that I might have jumped to conclusions before, ok?
Alphie
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-09-27 17:42
It was all Mozart all the time last year.
2006 is definitely the year of Schost.
Pittsburgh Symph. is doing the Fifth SYmph Oct 8th.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2006-09-27 21:01
Alphie I hear exactly where you are coming from just having recently done some pit band work on Eb clarinet for Wonderful Town by Bernstein..
The difference in technique from the Bb to the smaller Eb clarinet is involves a change of perception (and at times it amazing how the Eb clarinet just does not speak so well in certain regions!)
I also find my personal ideas of technique required in getting the Eb to play are quite different from the regular Bb clarinet.
Playing the Eb clarinet is truly a great challenge...it just doesn't seem to lend itself to a great blend with most instruments unless they are clarinets.
I am not a fan of crystal partly because I just find it hard on the teeth in terms of feel. ...I doubt your problems are related to your set up because you are no doubt a superb player. It is very hard to make a quantative statement but fatigue at the end of a concert can really also play a large part in how succesful a performer feels at the end of the day...
I also agree the Eb clarinet is a totally different "beast" and that is putting it mildly. It also sometimes seems to require alot more pressure to play well than one would expect from such a small instrument. I usually use a fairly soft V12 3 1/2 with a bit of adjustment. I also find atmospheric changes in humidity greatly affect the instrument as well.
It is probably why so many end up in the bar after a concert.
All of the Eb book for Shostakovich 5 is quite difficult and hard to tune as well...hats off to having done such a great work!!
David Dow
Post Edited (2006-09-27 21:09)
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