 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lifeforms
Date: 2006-05-17 22:50
Hi,
I'm learning the clarinet. Usual method for me is to buy a second hand cheap instrument, and teach myself. So far done it with the whistle, and flute with the flute being my main instrument in my local band.
But I decided to do it with a clarinet. I bought one, which was a let down, altho playable, but it does need work, so I ended up buying another one hoping for better results.
It's marked Corton on the bell. Bell is plastic, as is the mouth piece, but all other parts are black wood of some description. The ebay (!) Descrip said it had been looked after, and gone through 2 generations. OVerall in my very inexperienced eyes it looks ok, and I'm gonna ask a clarinetist to play it tomorrow, but is there any info out there about these clarinets?
Could it really have gone through 2 generations? Is it that old? Also there are no name markings on the three wood pieces, just on the bell. It fits very well, with none of the cork looking overly manky, or overly used. Its either been re-corked, or just not used all that much. Head joint (flute coming in here!) says (i think its) Brilhart special. There are two serial numbers, i guess, on the two main parts, but not on the part the mouth piece fits into. The serial numbers say 470 (with either an 8, or B above the serial number on the top part)
Does anyone have any info on this Clarinet?
by the by, the first clarinet I got was a Rudall Carte one, plastic tho. Think i'm gonna go play around with that, and see what i can "fix" on it.
Cheers!
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Author: beejay
Date: 2006-05-20 11:57
I bought one when I was living in Soviet-era Moscow, when it was the top of the line instrument available -- in fact, come to think of it, it was the only one available. It was made in Czechoslovakia, a sign of quality in Russia in those days, and was I believe widely used in military bands. The mouthpiece was the worst I have ever tried and was an odd measure, making it non-interchangeable. After a dog chewed my old B-45 (not the facing, fortunately), I filled in the gashes with epoxy and filed it down to fit my old Corton. The result was surprisingly good. The sound is warm and the intonation is reasonably accurate. It hasn't needed a lot of attention, and it is still operational. The plastic bell has a curious petroleum smell that reminds me of Moscow every time I take it out of the case, but at least it has not yet turned green, as some do. I believe the company that made it has now transmogrified into Amati. The Corton is a proper clarinet, not a CSO, but probably not worth spending big bucks for repair. I take mine on holiday, and play it from time to time to remind myself how lucky I am that my other clarinet is a Buffet Crampon RC.
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Author: lifeforms
Date: 2006-05-20 21:45
Thank you David, and beejay for the link and info. My bells not really green, but it is plastic. Kinda blackish still, and I can't say that i've been and smelt it either *G* I will try the next time I get it out tho!
Beejay, did your original mouthpiece say anything on it? Would the Brilhart one on mine be the original, or another one? When you say about non-interchangeable, do you mean the mouthpiece itself, or the little part the mouthpiece fits into? Would this cause a problem if I replace my mouthpiece?
Also does yours have a hand engraved serial number on it? If so what is it, if you dont mind saying. I can't work out if mines actually an early Corton, with the small serial number.
What is a CSO? As far as i've played it I can pretty easily get all the bottom octave notes, some next octave up. I am having trouble with the B (octave 2), but I really dont know if thats the clarinet or me at the point. I've only really played it a few days. Thus said I can play it quite nicely on current music I have, so long as I stick between the first octave from bottom E to a2.
I borrowed a band B&M clarinet, which has been overhauled, and I did find that it was quite hard to play in comparision to the Corton - again that could be me. I found volume control on the Corton to be very easy to do, where as I was just blasting out on the B&M one. The B&M is plastic through out, and its certainly something I can notice; the general sound between the two, with my ears prefering the Corton.
I didn't manage to get the Clarinetist to play this week, but next week I will ask him. Only thing I'm worried about is my lack of B, but that could be me and having only started playing it.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-05-20 22:37
The Brilhart mouthpiece is probably not the original. Don't worry about it. Most clarinets come with very cheap mouthpieces that are thrown away in favour of whatever expensive mouthpiece the player favours.
The "little part the mouthpiece fits into" is called the barrel. I think beejay is saying that the upper socket of the barrel had a smaller than standard diameter, so he had to file down a standard mouthpiece to make it fit.
A CSO is a "clarinet-shaped object" - a very cheap and nasty instrument. Or a Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
Problems with the middle B are common. See my post within http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=216166&t=216166.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: lifeforms
Date: 2006-05-21 00:12
Thanks again for a reply! I'm all very new to this *G*
Ok Barrel, that figures, I'll remember that.
The thing with the B is that I may occasionally hit something like a B, but not often, and I'm not sure how pitch perfect it is. I'm still confused with the B sound. Like on a Flute it's actually A - If you get what i mean. So whilst I think it sounds a little funny, when I play a note correctly, it's not for the clarinet, it's just my mind playing tricks, and it prolly will be like that till I get used to the clarinet sounds.
Urm, what key is the C key that i should try to hold down to see if it leaks? I'd like to try this when I can hit a B. Because I can't actually get it most of the time, i'm lending myself to think that perhaps its me not the clarinet. It's prolly easier to fix myself! And when i say can't get it, i mean a sound full stop, rather than constant squeaks.
Generally is anything above, say A2, harder to learn to play? With the flute it's very easy to overblow and just get the 2nd octave note, or at least close to it. Not a great technique, but it does the job till you learn to get it properly.
There are a few manky looking pads on there, but they do seem to close tho. I don't mind not having a pristine looking/behaving clarinet. I just want something to blow, so I can at least try it.
And I love the definition of a CSO. I could come up with a few FSO candidates from my local band (sadly for the kids who play ...*try to*... play them.) I once lent my TJJ flute out for a wee while, whilst I taped down a leaky key on someones FSO. Couldn't believe the sound they had playing mine over theirs. *sigh*
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-05-21 00:26
To test the B, play the upper register D. (Thumb, register key, six fingers.) Sounding concert C in the treble stave.
Now play C using your right little finger. Trial and error till you find the correct key; there are only four to choose from!
Keeping the C key down, play B using your left little finger. Trial and error again.
Does it sound okay? If not, either there's something wrong with the instrument, or you are tensing your hand as you reach for the keys, and letting one of the holes leak.
Assuming it does sound okay. stop blowing, lift both little fingers, push the left one down again, then blow again.
If the note doesn't sound properly, the problem is most likely the crowsfoot.
You can also make this check without playing at all, but it's difficult to explain how without pictures.
...
You ask: "Generally is anything above, say A2, harder to learn to play?"
Yes. In fact the notes in the middle of the upper register, like F and G, are easier than the B and C.
Many teachers will insist that you become reasonably confident with the lower register before starting work on the upper. The UK exam grades require lower register only for grade 1. The argument is that if you start on the upper register too soon, you will play in a forced way. It is a good principle when learning, only to play the notes you find easy. If a note is difficult to play, then (assuming there's nothing wrong with the instrument) it's most likely a sign that you aren't ready for it yet.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2006-05-21 11:01
The only inscription I can find on my Corton is a small L627 registration mark on both parts of the body. David was right, and I stand corrected -- it was the barrel, not the mouthpiece, that was the odd size. I can't remember what the mouthpiece was -- standard Red Army issue probably. The wooden body is surprisingly good quality with very dense, close-grained ebony. Why they would want to spoil that by using a plastic barrel, I have no idea but there were many things under communism that made no sense at all. The key work is functional but not very elegant. By CSO I was referring to the cheap clarinets coming out of Asia and sold in Western supermarkets for relatively little. They look like clarinets but sound awful and don't last. Clarinets like the Corton may be rudimentary by modern standards, but they were made for an informed and music-loving public, and were relatively decent -- a bit like old Melodya records, I suppose.
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Author: lifeforms
Date: 2006-05-21 12:34
I'm trying to test the B, i can't get it. But its quite hard to get the c too. I'm gonna try it on another clarinet tonight, and see if I can get it on that one. Otherwise i'll just sit tight untill I can get someone, who can play to play it *G*
I wouldn't say I feel totally confident over the lower notes, but I can play a few tunes with them. I'll try to attach a file of me killing a tune later. Perhaps it is something that I need paitence for. 3rd octave on the flute was quite hard when I started doing that. Virtually impossible on the Piccolo, but relaxing and not getting tense I can now do both.
Beejay, my Barrels wood. The only part of it that is plastic is the mouth piece, and bell. Interestingly i still have smelt it, can't smell anything, but i did take a look, and on the Corton writing its going green there, just not on the bell. Is that somethng that i have to look forward to?
I do have to say that i do enjoy playing it, finding it much easier over the B&M i tried.
Post Edited (2006-05-21 12:42)
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Author: venus in fur
Date: 2009-06-08 07:54
Hi there.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. However, there is no information regarding the reeds.
I have never had a clarinet before. so it may seem like a silly question.
regards
V
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-03-11 12:34
@beejay: One technical remark for future searches: The "plastic" with this clarinets is hard rubber (ebonite/vulvcanite), not plastic. The bell was made often from this material because of it's high damping coefficient near to wood and it's resistance against damage. The second the material is easy to form and cheap. The influence of bell material is less than 1 or 2% of all sound capabilities. It's not mandatory to do the bell from wood...
That's the reason, nothing else.-)
The oily smell is typical for hard rubber pieces, and the bell easy could be polished back to pure black.
kindly
Roman
PS: The Soviet instruments (really CSOs from factory "Orfei" Kiev;-) itself were made from hard rubber mostly or a fibre reinforced resin like Pertinax. Bells sometimes were made from compacted paper stuff (with a resin binder?) and painted black. The mouthpieces came in very smooth plastic and terrible shaped ;-( I wonder alltimes, that this MPCs could produce scale tones 8-}
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Author: awm34
Date: 2010-03-11 19:42
While I have a few clarinets in my collection (Selmer 10g, Normandie, TR147, Forte C, Preufer A) my only Corton is marked Grand Cru, Bonneau du Martray 1987.
Prosit!
Alan Messer
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Author: mazg
Date: 2010-03-15 05:27
Hi
My parents bought me a used Corton in England when I started high school in 1983. My barrel is also wood and the bell of ebonite. I played the Corton through high school and a few years after. It gave me no trouble (very few pads needed replacing during several years of heavy use) and sounded pretty good, at least as good as the plastic Yamaha student models my friends had.
The sound was vastly improved by a good mouthpiece, reed and ligature combo. I believe I had one of the Vandoren mouthpieces on it at the time (I only discovered this at age 15 after the clarinet rolled onto the floor in the middle of orchestra practice and the mouthpiece I had smashed, gasp!). It turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened in my clarinet career, because it had never occurred to me that mouthpieces were all that important and there were actually different models and qualities
Having said that, I definitely noticed a difference when I purchased a Noblet 27 from Peter Spriggs which is still only an intermediate model. I still have the Corton and the Noblet, and it is the Noblet that I am just picking up after almost 6 years hiatus, hence my arrival on the board today.
Have fun with the Corton!
P.S. My serial is 2152.
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Author: glcdurham
Date: 2014-11-02 15:26
Hi
Before I come to my main topic let me explain. I am a learner level musician and have a number of instruments. I have several guitars. At the moment I have three clarinets.
a) Boosey and Hawkes 400. b) Markis De Luxe. c) Corton (Bell marked Corton Foreign).
It is about the Corton which has a wooden bell, I read only of plastic bell's for Corton's. I can see the grain in the bell. Are there any wooden bell Corton's?
The number on the body is 10038 with a 1 above the number.
Retired
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-02 19:27
Some Cortons were supplied with wooden bells as Amati made higher level instruments which were all wood.
Is the Markis De Luxe also an Amati stencil (like the B&H 400 and Corton)?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: glcdurham
Date: 2014-11-09 01:36
Hi the Markis deluxe which I've just bought stated in the advert:
Made in England by the British Band Instrument Company which is now defunct, for woodwind anyway.
Thats all I know. It is very easy to play in fact its the first clarinet that I've been able to control loudness volume of my play. I'm using a Noblet 2 and a Selmer golden tone mouthpieces.
Retired
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-09 01:58
Can you post a photo of the Markis clarinet on here?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-11-09 04:35
"Hi the Markis deluxe which I've just bought stated in the advert:
Made in England by the British Band Instrument Company which is now defunct, for woodwind anyway."
The British Band Instrument Company was a brand label used by Boosey and Hawkes. I suspect that your instrument will be an Edgware with a BBI logo.
Tony F.
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Author: Dougiep80
Date: 2021-01-16 01:10
Lifeforms (or anyone else with one)
How did you find the Corton as an instrument?
Curious as I see them for sale at a relatively low price usually.
Would be interested to hear from anyone who has bought and used them.
Dougie
Post Edited (2021-01-16 01:10)
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2021-01-16 21:58
I had a second hand Corton way back as my first instrument, and remember the revelation of how much better the keywork felt on my first upgrade, to a pair of B&H Emperors. I had an opportunity to try one again a couple of years ago, and it was as I remembered it: the keys just felt clumsy. For me at least, the keys on the B&H Regent of the same era, or B&H / Yamaha student instruments, sit under the fingers much more comfortably. I couldn’t recommend the Corton.
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The Clarinet Pages
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