 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-01 23:10
All other joints have been taken off, and only these two joints are together at this point. I have been trying to blow into it to warm up the barrel, but that has not worked. I also just swabbed my clarinet, as I saw that the heat was not working. what should I do?
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2006-04-01 23:23)
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2006-04-01 23:24
I usually do kind of a twist and "pop" deal when this happens... I dont' know how else to describe it, but it works every time... so far!
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2006-04-01 23:26
This has happened to me. You just sort of wiggle it back and forth if you can, otherwise, the repair person can pop it right off with no problems. Good luck! Use lots of cork grease in the future. Lots and lots and lots.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-01 23:44
Carol Dutcher wrote:
> This has happened to me. You just sort of wiggle it back and
> forth if you can, otherwise, the repair person can pop it right
> off with no problems. Good luck! Use lots of cork grease in
> the future. Lots and lots and lots.
Well, the wiggling isn't working, and the repair person I went to used to say that I was using too much cork greese (all of my corks split it half and came off within 1 week of eachother). I wish i would have put cork greese on this side of the barrel this morning (I put greese on my mp).
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-04-01 23:54
Try leaving it together overnight and then try to get it off in the morning. That's how we got my bell off. It was stuck and nothing could get it unstuck, so we left it out overnight and the next morning we got it off.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2006-04-01 23:57
Me being impatient about these things, I would say be more forceful... although it is delicate you are probably being very easy on it as it is your own clarinet, just pretend its a friends saxophone.
Man this is terrible advice... I apologize. And I don't actually hate saxophones, either... hahha.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-04-02 02:32
ElBlufer,
Applying force may break something very expensive. IMO the best solution is to take it to a repair tech.
If you can't or don't want to do that, I think Gordon (a professional repair technician) has addressed this problem and you should be able to find his advice by using the BB search feature.
Hans
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Author: Kchui999
Date: 2006-04-02 02:35
What happened in my situation was that the cork on the upper tenon was simply too thick for my barrel. when it got stuck, I took it to my tech, he separated it, and then sanded a small amount of cork off the tenon. My barrel fits perfectly now.
As far as cork greese is concerned, my old teacher told me to try getting some in barrel joint area with your finger, since most of the stuff you put on the cork just gets pushed to the bottom by the barrel anyway. It works quite well.
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2006-04-02 04:10
After you get the barrell off, start using Dr. Slick or Dr. Syntek from The Doctor's Products. It won't deteriorate your corks and it works fantastic.
I like Dr. Syntek best. It's super slick and makes really tight joints move very well. Either one is great, though, and the good news is that it isn't hard on your corks like waxy type cork grease is.
Good luck.
Rebecca
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-02 05:15
I was able to get the barrel off by waiting (5 hours) and then trying to pull it off again. I just put a lot of cork grease on the upper joint. Unfortunately, I do not think I will be able to purchase the doctor's cork products anytime soon; as I cannot afford to do so and I just had my parents buy me a new swab (The legend) and stand.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-04-02 16:17
Chances are the wood is expanding after absorbing moisture. That's why waiting for it to dry is required to remove the barrel. If you have open looking end grain on the top of the upper joint, you can help to prevent the problem by letting the instrument dry overnight and the putting a thin film of cork grease onto the end grain so it won't be able to absorb as much moisture the next time. I am not an expert on these matters, but as for as I know, this won't hurt the wood as long as you don't overdo it.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-04-02 16:45
<Unfortunately, I do not think I will be able to purchase the doctor's cork products anytime soon>
It's only $2.50 for a tube of Dr Slick, and even with the shipping should be around $4....it shouldn't be too hard to come up with that amount, maybe if you mow someone's lawn or something......
Sue
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Author: Clarinetcola
Date: 2006-04-02 17:21
i had the same case and i took it to the repairman.
he hammered the barrel(shocked) and it came off using only little strength.
he sanded of some wood after it. but i don't recommened you doing it at home though!
Nathan
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-02 17:36
Quote: It's only $2.50 for a tube of Dr Slick, and even with the shipping should be around $4....it shouldn't be too hard to come up with that amount, maybe if you mow someone's lawn or something......
The problem is not obtaining the money...the problem is getting a credit card to pay for it. My parents do not want to use credit cards very often, so it takes quite a bit of convincing to get them to use it for online purchases.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-04-02 17:46
If one needs magic greases (no pun intended) in order to be able to separate two pieces after praticing, something is wrong. If your cork is so big that it gets stuck, it's too big for the barrel, it will put undue stress to the mating parts, you'll bend your keywork when assembling the parts etc etc.
Do have your cork sanded. Just a little will make a world of a difference.
--
Ben
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2006-04-02 18:11
Try putting the clarinet in the fridge for a couple of hours and then see if you can ease the barrel off. Then let the clarinet slowly warm up before trying to play it.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-04-02 20:19
>Try putting the clarinet in the fridge for a couple of hours and then see if you can ease the barrel off
no!!
thats a good way to crack the wood.
take it to a tech, they will either a) sand the cork or b) sand the wood, or perhaps a bit of both, and solve the problem
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: TWilliamson
Date: 2006-04-02 21:21
Question: I don't take my instrument apart is that a bad thing? I play at home and so, other than removing the reed to clean the barrel, I keep the instrument together. I don't want to suddenly find that I can't take it apart when I eventually want to because it's stuck! I use lots of cork grease.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-04-02 22:13
TWilliamson,
keeping the instrument assembled will "tire" the corks which will eventually lead to wiggly connections (especially between upper and lower joint). Disassembling will allow the cork to expand again.
Additionally, moisture will accumulate between the individual pieces. The wood might not like that.
I'd take it apart overnight.
--
Ben
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-02 22:31
The one time (thankfully only once) that I let my A clarinet sit on the stand for a couple of days it got stuck, barrel to upper joint. A slight wiggle released it.
So does the strain on the tenon corks relate to them drying out when left assembled?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-04-02 23:01
So does the strain on the tenon corks relate to them drying out when left assembled?
First of all, the moisture can cause the wood to swell, resulting in a tighter-than-normal fit. Then, the grease slowly wanders into the pores of the cork, the smear film will gradually disappear, and the cork will get into direct contact with the wood. Now we see the change from sliding friction to sticking friction. When over time the moisture disappears, the cork is literally sucked and glued to the tenon.
(In a way it's like when you thoroughly wet a newspaper page and slap it onto a window glass. As long as it's wet it's easy to remove. But once it's dried it might even tear when you attempt to remove it.)
Now this is all very unscientific but - I hope - nonetheless illustrative. (Disclaimer: my background is engineering, not woodwind repairs. But I reckon physics apply everywhere)
--
Ben
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-04-02 23:19
If this is a new Buffet, take it to a tech and get the tenons and sockets properly sized. Buffet seems to be fitting their new horns' joints too tight.
Bob Phillips
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-04-02 23:57
"The problem is not obtaining the money...the problem is getting a credit card to pay for it. My parents do not want to use credit cards very often, so it takes quite a bit of convincing to get them to use it for online purchases."
You can mail Omar a Check.....which you would have to do anyway for purchases under $25.
Sue
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-04-03 00:08
ElBlufer wrote:
> The problem is not obtaining the money...
> the problem is getting a credit card to pay for it.
> My parents do not want to use credit cards very often,
> so it takes quite a bit of convincing to get them to use it
> for online purchases.
Give your parents the money and have them write a check.
If not, get a postal money order ...GBK
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-03 00:31
tictactux,
Thanks so much for the engineering advice. Makes sense! I think you're right on with physics. I suppose the laws therein apply everywhere ;o)
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-03 02:56
Trust me, they wouldn't like that idea either (checks)...they just don't understand how music costs money and that I need these things. Also, thank you for all of the discussion on this topic, it makes for good reading.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2006-04-03 09:06
Sorry... it could be because it's 3:00 int he morning and I'm dilusional while takign a break from my paper... but did you get the barrel off yet?
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-04-03 12:01
By all means, get a decent cork grease instead of the junk that is generally marketed.
But if a joint is this tight, even with a TRACE of grease, then it is the fit of the timber that needs attention. Grease does little to stop jamming timber.
The techniques I use when a joint is very jammed is:
1. Use a person with very strong hands to twist it apart. This seldom fails, and is probably how your technician will succeed.
Or:
2. Bend the joint and insert a sliver of firm material, say a razor blade, in the tiny gap between the two parts. Bend the other way, and insert something slightly thicker on the opposite side, say a credit card. Bend the first way again, and replace the first shim with something thicker still, say a knife, or two credit cards. Keep alternating, using thicker and thicker materials, until the joint releases. This even works for tearing apart cork that has attached to the socket.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2006-04-03 13:41
I had the same problem with the barrel and the bell getting stuck and this is after the tech recorked it. After difficult removal I sanded VERY little off the tenons to the point where it was still quite snug after playing but can be removed with some effort. It may take a few times to get it just right. Be very careful not to remove too much so it will not be loose when cold. You only need a thin layer of cork greese. Anything more doesnt make removal any easier. It will however make for a dirty, sloppy, greasy clarinet. Good luck.
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-04-03 17:12
Is it just me, or does something sound odd about a high school kid who has an R13, but can't buy cork grease? I realize that working isn't considered cool these days, but since I've always had some sort of job, since I was 9, I don't see the harm in suggesting it. Of course, maybe his username should be a clue ... did he first post this on April 1, perhaps?
Post Edited (2006-04-03 17:13)
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-03 22:23
corks&Pads...I should be getting a job this summer, and it took me a little over a year to convince my parents to get me an R13 (most came out of my bar mitzvah account). When I do get a job there are quite a few products I am looking into ordering from the Doctor.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-04-03 22:42
ElBlufer - Email your USPS address to me and I'll send you some cork grease. I'm going to place an order with Omar in a few minutes and it will be my tiny contribution to your future success.
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-03 22:59
ElBlufer, nice restraint! I would have been a little harsher. In your defense, every instrument I play is an instrument my parents purchased(I got the R13 when I was in 8th Grade)...and I'm not in school anymore!
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-04 04:50
Corks&Pads...I appreciate your generosity; however, my parents would go beserk if I gave my address out over the web (and, unfortunately, I am completely in their control). Also, I will probably be taking my clarinet to the tech soon, as one pad is falling off, and i will talk to him about sanding the cork down a small amount.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-04-04 05:54
"i will talk to him about sanding the cork down a small amount...."
Just a small thing... I think you still miss the point. The issue is almost certainly one of the TIMBER being too tight. Probalby nothing to do with the cork at all!
Post Edited (2006-04-04 05:55)
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-04 06:15
Ok. I'll talk to him about the timber. Is the timber referring to the socket in which the joint is inserted into? I'm sorry if this is a stupid question.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2006-04-04 06:54
I think by timber, Gordon is refering to the actual wood. The joints may not have been fitted properly causing an overly tight connection being made by wood on wood and not cork on wood.
Gordon, did I get that right?
-pat
ps - You could always just take a saw to it... JUST KIDDING
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-04-04 11:25
Yes, you got it right.
And unless you have the clarinet spinning in a lathe, or equivalent, any sanding can be rather indiscriminate, running a risk of making the tenon timber oval. Always, any process for improving the fit should be taking off only the high spots! An well-fitted oval tenon wobbles, but in only one direction.... not acceptable!
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-04 13:50
I have always noticed that the wood above the cork was almost as high as the cork, and is becoming discolored for it. Thank you for explaining why, and I will (hopefully) get it fixed soon.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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