 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: steve
Date: 2000-03-13 16:26
I notice that Alessandro Carbonare has been appointed to the solo chair at the Berliner Phil....a picture of him at the Rico site shows him with a Boehm system instrument!!! Isn't this a radical departure for a German orchestra...I seem to remember that German orchestra clarinet sections had a no Boehm system players need apply policy....
I've heard recordings of him, and he is supremely talented, but what gives??? Are Teutonic orchestras loosening up?? Will trumpets soon play piston instead of rotary valves?
regards, s.
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2000-03-13 16:39
Yes Steve (Roberts?),
What a departure that is for the Berlin Philharmonic anyway. About 10 years ago they wouldn't even accept my application for the principal job due soley to the fact that I play the french system. I even spoke personally with the manager of the orchestra to find out if that policy would be changing in the near future and his reply was something like "not if we never allow french system to be heard at the auditions it won't!" That's after I offered just to fly over to at least be heard in case...
I have a couple of friends in the orchestra that say the orchestra has become much younger very quickly and are somewhat more progressive in their views on this subject.
Gregory Smith
Evanston, Illinois.
steve wrote:
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I notice that Alessandro Carbonare has been appointed to the solo chair at the Berliner Phil....a picture of him at the Rico site shows him with a Boehm system instrument!!! Isn't this a radical departure for a German orchestra...I seem to remember that German orchestra clarinet sections had a no Boehm system players need apply policy....
I've heard recordings of him, and he is supremely talented, but what gives??? Are Teutonic orchestras loosening up?? Will trumpets soon play piston instead of rotary valves?
regards, s.
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Author: Hans
Date: 2000-03-14 07:08
It is really amazing! I know one example of a professional clarinettist active in Germany (E. Brunner) who plays the Böhm system since years. But the Berliner is known for their sound idiom based on the former Oskar Oehler instruments and in this time the Herbert Wurlitzer instruments (sets from the orchestra, all german system, no reform-Böhm).
We will see if A. Carbonare will change or adapt the german system.
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2000-03-14 13:18
Now that WOULD be truly amazing.....changing completely over to the Oehler/Wurlitzer for ALL music played in the Berlin Philharmonic.
Here in Chicago, we can manage to play all the way up through many of the late romantic works but technically speaking, it would take years for us to learn how to manage the Mahler 9's, the Ravel Daphnis, etc.
We only use them here for the Germanic works anyway - and not for the most difficult ones. We do manage Mahler 5, some R. Strauss, etc.I sincerely doubt that he will play the German system anyway. Have you heard the recording of the Brahms Quintet with the French clarinetist, principal of the Orchestra de Paris - Pascal Moragues? He plays the French system and manages to sound like Karl Leister - his ideal - tonally speaking. Maybe Alessandro will adapt his sound somewhat to the Berlin Philharmonic woodwind sound.
Greg Smith
Evanston, Illinois
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Author: steve
Date: 2000-03-14 16:34
Greg...is the practice of playing certain rep. on oehler instruments widespread in the us, or is this a chicago thing, or a recent, more wide-spread thing? I dont remember folks in Cleveland playing anything but their boehm inst. during the years we had season tickets (1959-1972)...the first exposure I ever got to a section going for ethnic school purity was watching the chicago trumpets play rotary valve instruments (in C?) under solti on some Wagner (fl. holl.?)in ca 1973....
who makes the choice? conductor? section?
regards, steve
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2000-03-14 19:52
Well as far as I know, we are the first and only clarinetists to ever do this kind of thing full time here in the US - that is to play French and German system on the same concert. It was suggested by Barenboim awhile back and Larry and I took the ball and ran with it. We started with them in summer '94. The funny thing is that Barenboim can never tell which horns we are using. Of course the sound is wonderfully different to us and our colleagues.
In Cleveland everyone played Buffet/Moennig horns with Kaspar mouthpieces for the most part (during their golden years). There's even a Buffet promotional photo somewhere that was up in his studio showing the section all standing around playing their Buffets. Wow - I don't need to tell you how envious I am of you attending all of those concerts - and remembering them with such clarity!
Did you study with Marcellus? I suppose you heard his Mozart Concerto, Sinfonie Concertante and the Debussy Rhapsodie all at Severance. How about the Ginastera Variations with Alcantara conducting?
What I would pay to have had............
Greg Smith
Evanston, Illinois.
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steve wrote:
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Greg...is the practice of playing certain rep. on oehler instruments widespread in the us, or is this a chicago thing, or a recent, more wide-spread thing? I dont remember folks in Cleveland playing anything but their boehm inst. during the years we had season tickets (1959-1972)...the first exposure I ever got to a section going for ethnic school purity was watching the chicago trumpets play rotary valve instruments (in C?) under solti on some Wagner (fl. holl.?)in ca 1973....
who makes the choice? conductor? section?
regards, steve
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Author: David Dow
Date: 2002-04-18 16:50
The interesting thing about Carbonare is the way he make the clarinet sound, he plays with a full sound but with intensity. I think the B40 he uses has alot to do with this...sometime the American facings tend to get a little shrill on the top notes and if one listens closely this is where great solists do most of the playing, also the B40 tends to make the Boehms sound like a german clarinet, and of course some of the tricks are dealing with the tuning issues. However, its wonderful to see the Berlin Phil bring in a Boehm player.
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Author: steve roberts
Date: 2006-02-25 07:51
Hi Greg! Long time no see. I didn't post the question about Mr. Carbonare and hadn't noticed that he plays a Boehm system. I have noticed that he moves about quite a bit though during solos. Release comes from diverse sources doesn't it?
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-02-25 11:36
Hi Steve....it has been a few years!
Yes, release is a beautiful thing, isn't it? I've not heard him play in person, but judging from his recordings, the Doppler effect seems to be in full command.
I believe that he does play the standard Auguste Buffet/Klose (Boehm keyed) system though he is playing one of my mouthpieces - which would obviously not fit an Oehler.
Gregory Smith
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-02-25 11:39
dou think that Simon Rattle has had some influence with the decision to have french carinets in the orchestra?
Peter Cigleris
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-02-25 11:45
According to the web site, Carbonare is no where to be seen, when was he appointed?
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-02-25 11:55
This thread was started 2000-03-13. I believe he is currently with the Orchestra Accademia Santa-Cecelia in Rome, Italy.
I still can't work out of this is just an orchestra of an academy as well (i.e one could study there)
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2006-02-25 13:19
as far as I know, W. Fuchs and Karl-Heinz Steffens are playing solo in Berlin...
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-02-25 15:04
BTW, I saw that Mr. Carbonare will be performing at the next clarinetfest. I have never heard him live, but his recordings are really outstanding. It might worth the trip to Atlanta just to hear him live.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-02-25 16:51
Morrigan wrote:
>> This thread was started 2000-03-13. I believe he is currently with the Orchestra Accademia Santa-Cecelia in Rome, Italy.>>
Yes. Although of course anything is possible, I have to say that in my opinion such an appointment would be exceedingly unlikely.
>> I still can't work out of this is just an orchestra of an academy as well (i.e one could study there) >>
L'Orchestra dell'Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia is pretty much just an orchestra, as is the Academy of Ancient Music just an orchestra, and the Academy of Saint-Martin-in-the-Fields just an orchestra.
Tony
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-25 17:02
I'm just making the assumption that the Italian clarinet sound is very near that of the German sound than it is to the French sound, and probably that factor may have swung it for him.
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Author: vin
Date: 2006-02-25 19:01
Chris P-
I'm sorry to be rude, but you are talking nonsense. Have you any idea of the history of German orchestras? Do you know what Alessandro Carbonare sounds like? Have you heard many Italian clarinetists? He certainly doesn't sound Italian to me. And besides, he didn't get the job in Berlin, so nothing got "swung" his way. I know you didn't mean any harm, but assuming when you obviously don't know all the facts doesn't help anyone.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-25 19:50
Change the tense from present to past and this is what was originally stated at the top of this thread:
"I notice that Alessandro Carbonare has been appointed to the solo chair at the Berliner Phil....a picture of him at the Rico site shows him with a Boehm system instrument!!! Isn't this a radical departure for a German orchestra...I seem to remember that German orchestra clarinet sections had a no Boehm system players need apply policy...."
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Author: vin
Date: 2006-02-25 23:13
I don't see what repeating the first post does- how does this defend your useless speculation?
And, where in any post except yours does it say anything about an Italian sound?
Which other players have an "Italian" sound that you can recommend and can you honestly tell me Carbonare sounds the same as them?
And, six years after this post, anyone can check and see he didn't get the job.
Ergo, nothing was "swung" his way.
He is amazing player and his whole philosophy, according to an interview around the time of the Munich competition, is combining something from every school. I don't see (or hear, for that matter) how his sound is more Italian than French, and isn't it a moot point seeing as he was not able to break into the German school. Yes, it is significant that he played concerts with them, but how does your post further the discourse in any way than pure, uninformed speculation? By all means, point me to some recordings that prove that you know what you are talking about.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-02-25 23:23
vin wrote:
> anyone can check and see he
> didn't get the job.
He had the job for one year (the trial period) and did not continue in that position, for whatever reason. Whether or not his style of playing did or did not fit into Berlin isn't on record, at least as far as I can see. People don't continue with a particular orchestra for many different reasons.
Now, please all get on with your lives.
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Author: steve roberts
Date: 2006-02-27 06:47
Hello again, I was in Romania last Dec. and happened to see several broadcasts on a cable network in Europe called " Mezzo". The gentleman playing principal on recent broadcasts in the Berlin Phil plays a german system. I tuned in for a performance of Boris Blacher's "Variations on a theme of Paganini". (which if memory serves me well was on Marcellus's very first concert with the Cleveland Orchestra).
Here is the most current personel list from the B.P.O. website: http://www.berliner-philharmoniker.de/en/orchester/
Post Edited (2006-02-27 06:49)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-27 08:16
And several of my favourte musicians included in there.
No doubt that comment will also be blown up out of all proportions.
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Author: vin
Date: 2006-02-27 17:11
Sound classification aside, there are several funny pictures of Fuchs and Carbonare from his time in Berlin at Carbonare's website- www.carbonare.com. It's nice to see his human side as well.
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