 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-10-13 09:27
My teacher said "Inhale as if you're yawning, and that will give the best tone".
Her point seems that I should inhale as naturally and as abundantly as possible, exactly like when yawning.
Trouble is, I can't do it all the time.
Any remark?
Lucy Lee Jang
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-10-13 15:34
My instructor has told me in the past to inhale with the syllable "haw", which is like yawning. I use this when playing clarinet, trombone, and euphonium, and it works just fine.
Clayton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-10-13 15:52
Not being a clarinet instructor, I think that your assessment of what your teacher was telling you is correct. Obviously, you cannot open your mouth as if you are yawning, but when you yawn you breathe as deeply as possible, filling your entire lungs with fresh air. You should learn this feeling and try to duplicate it when breathing as you play, rather than taking shallow breaths that fill only a small portion of your lungs.
You may not have the time to breath as deeply between two notes, but you should breath in the same manner.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: the only sane person in the room
Date: 2005-10-13 16:27
>>>>My teacher said "Inhale as if you're yawning, and that will give the best tone".<<<<
I just tried this. No sound came out.
Maybe for you that is the best tone.
Generally speaking, you need to blow air out to get a tone. At least that is what I have read in books.
I think it should be required for everyone on this board who claims to study with a good teacher, or especially for those who claim to BE a great teacher to post a recording of themselves playing something. And not unaccompanied either. . and it should be live and recorded within the last year.
After all, the only way to judge whether a teacher is good or not is "can I really pay." In most cases, the answer is scary. The you should ask "can he/she (the teacher) really play. In most cases, the answer is depressing.
Bad teachers should be strangled. Bad players who teach people to play badly should be forced to listen to an entire ipod's worth of their 'heritage' at full volume repeatedly.
Post Edited (2005-10-13 16:32)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TonkaToy
Date: 2005-10-13 19:29
"I just tried this. No sound came out.
Maybe for you that is the best tone.
Generally speaking, you need to blow air out to get a tone. At least that is what I have read in books."
Gee, who peed in your cornflakes this morning?
The original poster asked a perfectly valid question. Breathing well and teaching others to do the same is part and parcel of good clarinet playing. To teach and learn the instrument is to constantly search for metaphors that convey meaning to otherwise abstract concepts.
We'll all be expecting you to post a recording of your playing since you seem to know so much.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-10-13 19:34
Actually a good teacher should be able to 'teach' in the first place !!
Ok I know good playing is a benifit :-) , but afterall the best in the world can only have a coach or teacher who is less skilled, but if they have this magic that is called 'teaching skills', .... they can do wonders.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ZCClarinet
Date: 2005-10-13 20:00
I’ve heard this said by several teachers as well. I concluded, just based on my experiences, that yawning is used as an easier way for the student to think of "opening your throat," making the passageway much larger (like when you yawn) than what we are used to in an effort to move a large amount of air in a short(er) amount of time. That is, without over doing this process or adding stress to that area. It may also affect the location of the back of the tongue and the angles of air direction in a positive way for clarinet playing depending on what else the student does when they think about yawning.
=-Ben Chapin
Post Edited (2005-10-13 20:03)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2005-10-13 20:28
Claclaws wrote: >> My teacher said "Inhale as if you're yawning, and that will give the best tone".
>> Her point seems that I should inhale as naturally and as abundantly as possible, exactly like when yawning. Trouble is, I can't do it all the time.
>> Any remark?>>
By 'inhaling as if you're yawning' your teacher might mean 'inhaling against abdominal resistance' (which is after all what we do when we yawn -- it's not the same as fully breathing in.) Doing this amounts to ensuring that you 'support' when you begin playing.
It's a useful technique that came up in the course of a quite long exposition on support that I posted a few months back. (Other people contributed too.) You can find the relevant bit at:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=181854&t=181794
...but I'd say that it's best to read the thread from the beginning.
The nub of the matter is that you can set up the diaphragm/abdomen 'opposition' either before or after you breathe in. Doing it before you breathe in (the 'yawn') often helps ensure a secure attack, particularly if the entry is tricky for other reasons (very high, or very quiet, and so on). Paying attention to the (necessarily) slow inspiration calms the mind in the split second before the beginning of the note.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-10-13 21:44
'Only sane person in the room'...
Some of the best players make the most useless teachers, and some of the best teachers are at best average players...some of the most useful lessons I have ever had have been from people who don't even play the clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vin
Date: 2005-10-14 00:44
Lucy- Breathing correctly is like any other aspect of clarinet playing. If you can do it correctly part of the time, you must concentrate and keep practicing until you can do it all the time.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: the only sane person in the room
Date: 2005-10-14 13:56
>>>>>Some of the best players make the most useless teachers, and some of the best teachers are at best average players...some of the most useful lessons I have ever had have been from people who don't even play the clarinet.<<<<<
Here we go again with this old BS. The way it is worded makes it 'true.' However, let's be real.
A certain percentage of great players are bad teachers. A small percentage.
A certain percentage of bad players are great teachers. A VERY small percentage.
What do you mean by 'useful lesson' I wonder? Did you win a job?
And what, in fact, is your frame of reference? Which major players you studied with were bad teachers?
Reality check:
Recent audition winners off the top of my head are students of:
Ricardo Morales
Russ Dagon
Larry Combs
David Shifrin
all obviously great players
and
Yehuda Gilad
who may be a great player but whom I have not heard play.
Can less than great players teach beginners or jr. high students effectively? Sure. Can they take them all the way to a principal clarinet audition? Rarely. Very rarely.
The quantity of bad teacher going on out there is tremendous. HUGE. I have observed it and it is sad.
Bye.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2005-10-14 14:13
Just saw Mark Nuccio about 30 minutes ago. Add four more of his students to the list of very recent audition winners. I think I have to agree with TOSPITR's basic premise, particularly at the highest levels of the craft. Perhaps it can be said that some of the best players are ineffective at teaching at the earliest stages of a player's development, and yes, a few can't teach at all, but I have yet to encounter a fair-to-poor player who can teach at the more advanced levels.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-10-14 22:04
>>>A certain percentage of great players are bad teachers. A small percentage.<<<
I disagree, in fact many great players find it hard to express their ideas effectively to others.
>>>A certain percentage of bad players are great teachers. A VERY small percentage.<<<
Define 'great teacher' you seem so hung up on the 'big names'. 99% of people who play the clarinet will never go for an orchestral audition...I would define a great teacher as anyone who can inspire anyone else to improve, whilst giving them enjoyment on and understanding of their instrument. I know plenty of average players, who are looked at with awe by their (mainly young) students as they make them have FUN.
>>>What do you mean by 'useful lesson' I wonder? Did you win a job?<<<
Useful lesson...any lesson from which I have taken away something new, or which has inspired me in some way. I've learned from singers, pianists, violinists and so on and so on and so on. I would suggest that by following your logic...anyone who can't specifically play the clarinet to an exceptional standard has nothing to offer a clarinet player who is keen to learn, I disagree with this.
>>>And what, in fact, is your frame of reference? Which major players you studied with were bad teachers?
I'm not going to give you a list...it would be unprofessional of me to present a list of the great players who's lessons I have found to be less than useful. And of course, as with anything in life...this is all my personal opinion. Why should I potentially damage someone on a public forum?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-10-14 23:02
I can tell you about a "useLESS lesson."
At one point I brought a list of about 10 things I thought were problems for me based on my undergrad teacher in to a lesson in grad school. My teacher looked at the list (which included everything from attacks, breathing, & finger speed & control to intonation and musical issues) and said, "I don't think you have a problem with any of that." He then proceeded to tell me about some random thing he ate that day...
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vin
Date: 2005-10-14 23:13
"only sane person"- I agree with you about the problem with the typical feel-good/ not telling it like it is advice.
However,that doesn't mean the initial image of inhaling "like a yawn" is bad. In fact, Yehuda Gilad gave me a very similar image in a lesson several years ago. You expect everyone to provide a resume with their post. How about an open mind? The best teachers have them; take a page from their book.
And, a "useful lesson" is one that makes you a better clarinetist or musician.
It has nothing to do with winning a job, although if you've won jobs, you have probably had many "useful lessons."
And, yes, since you are no doubt already vociferously contemplating your next put-down, to clarify, I do have a job. It is not the most important thing in my life. You can persue perfection/excellence without being a jerk.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-10-15 00:11
Something for "the only sane person in the room"
I have won "a job". Most likely FAR better than any job you'll ever win, and I still hold that position.
My main teacher, who taught me for 8 years, was definitely not a great clarinetist. But he taught me perhaps 70% of what I know about clarinet playing. My next teacher taught me for 5 years. He was principal clarinet of a reasonable orchestra and taught me another 10%. I learnt another 5% from a famous teacher, 5% from an oboist, and continued to figure out the rest for myself.
My point: I learnt most of what I know from someone who wasn't a great clarinet player.
Who do you think you are with your opinionated views? I look forward to hearing your mp3 posted on this board...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
