 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-05 15:34
Yes I did a search! If the current concert pitch in the U.S. is 440 why do we Bb clarinets sound a C to tune up? In grade and high school I never knew why because no one ever explained it to us. Now that I'm older and smarter I still don't know why. I'm thinking it's because no one trusts oboe players to be able to sound a good A......to which we would sound a B (?) which usually doesn't sound that good on a Bb clarinet either.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Richard Ashmore
Date: 2005-08-05 16:06
Have you tried the method of Tom Ridenour? It's described at http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/articles/tuningBb.htm
Richard
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-08-05 16:36
In band there are a lot of brass instrument with Bb as a fundamental. A concert Bb makes it easier for them to tune accurately. A bad tuning choice would be trumpet written C# etc. Concert A is more for string instruments.....hence it is used in orchestra...lots of violins to tune....a Bb tuning note for strings wouldn't be an open string and therefore open to how accurate the note is fingered. The simple answer is that tuning to A or Bb has little to do with the clarinet.....it's the other instruments in the ensemble. John
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-08-05 18:13
I always figgered it was 'cauz my long B sounds awful --compared to my C
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-05 19:44
"Have you tried the method of Tom Ridenour?"
Yes,thanks Richard. I have no physical problem tuning my horns. My question is in regard to WHY concert Bb is the note used rather than concert A. This is in regards to concert band tune-up procedures. I think bob p. and arnold s. are pointing in the right direction. So, I guess if there was a situation where you had both an orchestra and a concert band playing the same piece they would be slightly out of tune with each other.
As to WHY a concert band uses concert Bb vis a vis an orchestra's A I guess it's because of the lack of strings.
So. then....in an orchestra which instrument sounds the pitch tone.....the first violin or the first oboe?
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2005-08-05 19:47
every one i've ever been in, oboe
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-05 21:48
In tuning our local/small symp orch as a poor oboist, I suffered the slings of "outrageous fortune", sharp criticism, "Which A today??" etc. My conclusion was that I was chosen because I could not go higher [lipping it up] on the oboe and everyone else could. All tuned sharp anyway, leaving me FLAT !! 'Nuff there ! You may have noticed in the case of a piano soloist, orchs tune to its A. [Pity the poor harpies and tymps !]. As noted, bands tune to Bb [our C] for the benefit of the brass, our band's 1st oboist and 1st clist compare pitches before tuning the whole band. Many groups have complex warm-up procedures to aid in-tuneness, but "compensation" is necessary except in the music's fortissimos, when only the conductor cares !! I cant believe I wrote this. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-08-06 03:31
Oboe sounds the A ....usually with a tuning meter on their music stand.
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-08-06 09:50
Orchestras tune to A because it is an open string on all four stringed instruments. Violinists might prefer to tune to E, which is their highest open string, but this would be no good for the violas and cellos. So A is chosen.
Bands tune to Bb, not for the benefit of the brass in general, but specifically for the benefit of the trombones.
A trumpet player can equally well tune to concert Bb (no valves) or concert A (second valve). A horn player can equally well tune to concert Bb (no valves on the Bb side, first valve on the F side) or concert A (second valve on the Bb side, no valves on the F side). A trombone player, however, is a great deal happier tuning to Bb (first position, that is to say slide pulled closed) than to A (second position, that is to say slide pushed out about 8 centimetres from its closed position......)
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-06 14:18
Thanks for insights to the subject that I didn't have. In the playing days of my youth we didn't even know enough to ask questions about some things..and if we had asked perhaps our leaders wouldn't have had the answer anyway. One aspect of the situation(playing in tune) that was a minor revelation to me was one time playing in a group in a very warm room. I was trying to use my tuner to get in tune as I realized that "things didn't sound right". The first clarinet said, "Don't even try,Bob, everybody's sharp and if you get in tune you'll screw things up."
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-08-06 23:37
What always gets me is the music groups that tune the trombones to concert A. I'm sure there's a good reason why they don't see the problems with this, but you would think that a competent conductor would straighten out the concert mistress at some point.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-08-07 00:31
Bands tune to concert Bb and concert F for the benefit of most of the players. For example, Concert Bb tunes the notes which require the majority of the clarinet (our C#, C, B, etc.) while concert F tunes notes requiring less of the clarinet (throat tones, etc.). Concert Bb helps tune the valve brass because it doesn't require any valves to be depressed. Concert Bb also helps tune all trombones in first position which helps us to then play in tune (if it is in tune with the slide pulled all the way in, its easier for us to gauge where the other positions are).
Clayton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-08-07 02:58
We tune to the oboe on A and we are blessed with a wonderful oboeist. Two in fact! They use a tuner on the stand for consistency in the three pitches given. The clarinet section all tune to a tuner prior to the oboe pitch too. Works for us.....except for our last chair clarinetist. Doesn't bother to use a tuner or listen to the oboe. Ugh. I hate that.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jim E.
Date: 2005-08-07 03:47
I never understood why when there is no piano present the group doesn't tune to chimes/ vibes/ marimba as these are non-adjustable, and given "normal" temperatures, should always sound their factory tuned pitch. I had a professor in college who would not begin my lesson until I had rung a 440 bar on the wall of his studio by sympathetic vibration!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-07 10:57
Ah, so that's what those wall bars were for! I recall seeing them in a couple of places but never even questioned their purpose. Thanks all for insights.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
