 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Scott
Date: 2005-07-14 19:40
Anyone use Luyben ligatures? I just found that I work 2 doors down from the mother ship. Luyben's store is located on Main St in Kansas City, MO. Neat place to visit. It's a store on the front of a large old converted house. The place is packed to the cealings with shelves and shelves of clarinet music.
Here's their web site. They do a large sheet music mail order business...
http://www.luybenmusic.com/
They also have a large clarinet music catalog.
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Scott Beard
Celebration Orchestra
Post Edited (2005-07-14 19:47)
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-14 19:41
Scott,
congratulations on your discovery. In addition to the nice ligature (I've used them and they're great), Luyben has one of the best collections of basset horn music for sale.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-07-14 19:46
After being continually frustrated with the adjustment hassle of Bonade inverted ligatures, I lately have been recommending that my students use the Luyben ligature (yes... I know it's made of plastic).
The design principle is quite similar to the Bonade, but the surrounding bands of the Luyben are raised away from the edge of the reed. No adjustment is ever needed.
The Luyben ligature (IMO) has presence, quick tonguing response and character which rivals the Bonade inverted...GBK
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Author: Scott
Date: 2005-07-14 19:48
I picked one up while I was there today but forgot to ask how to use it. Does the screw side go against the reed or the plastic side?
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Author: Scott
Date: 2005-07-14 19:54
okay - doh... I looked at the web site and it shows the plastic side against the reed.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-07-14 20:09
I live in the KC area and Luyben's is a cool place to visit. Always stocked with gobs of clarinet music and always eager to assist the customer.
I am currently using the Luyben ligature and I'm not having any problems with it. It sounds good to me! Also cheap, which is good for me!
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-07-14 20:13
I've bought many ligatures, and found Luyben to be the best for me. Strangely enough I prefer the white one to the black one. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the colour- the material of the white one is softer than the material of the black one. But one of my colleagues has an old black one which is also made of the soft material and plays like my white one.
What's the playing difference between them? Well, to avoid confusion, I'll just say that the white one has a darker sound :-)
Unfortunately, while Luyben is my favourite ligature, it's also the cheapest, which is why I also had to spend a lot of money trying other expensive ligatures to justify my choice!
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Author: Robyn
Date: 2005-07-14 20:13
Just for future reference, as a rule of thumb, you can always tell whether the screws go in front or in back by the way they point. The end of the screw that you turn should always point to the right (so you will tighten it with your right hand). :-)
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Author: Scott
Date: 2005-07-14 20:14
Okay - now I'm going to have to walk down the street tomorrow and pick up a white one and see what you mean!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-07-14 20:50
I've been waiting a month at Woodwind for backordered Luyben ligs.
The only negative comment I've ever heard is that overtightening can strip the threads in the plastic.
Bob Draznik
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Author: bobmi74
Date: 2005-07-14 21:02
There is an article in the newest Clarinet Journal about the Luyben Ligatures. Actually, it's an interview with Annette Luyben. There is no difference in the different colors of ligatures.
Interviewer: "Were they originally clear?"
A. Luyben: "Yes, the plastic is clear. When you get the clear one that is the raw plastic. All we do is add black dye for the black ligature. There are people who have argued with me that they play differently. Once this young student was just reading me the riot act that the black ligature just had to be better. After the conversation, Rich looked at me and said 'Why can't we make thme red or green or purple?' And that's who we got the colored ligatures...."
Luyben is the easiest music ordering company to work with. They have had everything that i've needed (which hasn't been a LOT yet) and they have multiple publishings of most of them. You not sure what you're looking for, and they can help. I can't wait to go to a convention and finally meet Annette!
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-07-14 21:09
They are a great place to order music. I also recently tried the lig. It responds beautifully. I found it works best (for me) to snug the screws a bit. The tone seems very centered and it doesn't seem to color the sound as you often find with other ligatures. It seems to be a nice pure tone. I also thought that it may be just the ticket for students as it works extremely well, they can't bend it out of shape and you certainly can't beat the price!
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-07-14 21:55
There may be no difference when playing the clear or black ligs, but the clear cap looks much sexier than the black. Luyben ligs are great, and KC area people can save even more by driving to the Musician's Friend outlet store just north of Front Street. Mail order prices but no shipping charges!
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-07-15 02:46
Tony- I love cheese. Really-it's awesome!
bobmi74- "I can't wait to go to a convention and finally meet Annette!"
Annette rocks my socks off. At OU, she was so nice to me and my friends. She was like "You don't want to buy that edition, get this edition" and then she was calling us her Kansas City kids and she kinda treated us like her adopted kids while we were at OU. She's so nice!
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-07-15 06:46
"There is no difference in the different colors of ligatures"
But the black ones and white ones that are available in my local music shop are definitely made of different material. How would Ms. Luyben explain that?
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-07-15 06:47
Tony- if you've got nothing useful to say on the topic, why don't you just say nothing?
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2005-07-15 09:30
Liquorice wrote:
>> Tony - if you've got nothing useful to say on the topic, why don't you just say nothing?>>
Implied rebuke accepted. Bit late at night.
But I think I was saying something on topic, even if it was a bit wicked, when you take the context into account...
...in the same way that a few quiet notes, played 'with nothing added', in an otherwise busy piece, has an expressive effect...
The context wasn't quite rich enough that actually saying 'nothing' would communicate; but that can happen -- for example, when you don't file your tax return in the context of IRS laws.
(Or how about 4'33"?-)
Tony
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-07-15 12:01
"But the black ones and white ones that are available in my local music shop are definitely made of different material"
I'm wondering if this is just an opinion or if you have somehow proven it since (above) the owner says the only difference is the pigment added to the black. On a strictly technical basis I tend to agree with you since when "anything" is added to an unpigmented plastic you have created a different "material". My impression has been that all the Luybens are made from one of the Nylon family of plastics.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-07-15 12:49
I haven't proven it, and wouldn't know how to. All I can say is that the white ligatures that I've got are softer in material than the black ones that I've got. Hard as it is to believe, this seems to make a difference to the sound and response of the reed. It's a shame because I don't like the way the white one looks, but feel obliged to play it because I prefer the way it sounds.
A bit like cheese really...
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-07-15 13:13
I know that the same phenomenon occurs with nylon guitar strings. Players have told me that the addition of pigment changes the hardness of the string. Recently my repair tech told me that it seemed to him that the clear and black Luybens were different material. It would be interesting if someone had some type of hardness tester to check it for hardness or density.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-07-15 15:35
If a hardness tester could test such thin plastic accurately a difference in hardness wouldn't prove or disprove a difference in material. IF both colors of Luybens are made from a nylon family grade a difference in hardness would more probably be due to a difference in moisture content.
Adding pigment to a "clear" nylon might alter its hygroscopic behaviour. That is, the black might absorb moisture at a different rate than the clear.
Making the nylon molding powder black would also allow the use of more regrind and if this was not controlled properly the resulting ligatures could vary rather widely in physical/mechanical properties. The preceding sentence would also apply to types of plastics other than the nylon grades. The Luybens might be made from polyethylene or even some other plastic.....or even different plastics in different eras. Who knows.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-07-15 15:43
Coincidentally, I received a black Luybens ligature today (new through ebay). It seems good. Much easier to apply than the BGL6 I bought last week so I think I'll stick with the Luybens. It could be my imagination but the clarinet also sounds better. Now I need the reed cap - does anyone know a UK supplier?
Tony - I like Blue Vinney but it is hard to get unless you live in Dorset.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-15 15:54
not too long ago, Luyben redesigned their ligature, and perhaps the differences noted between clear and black ligs is a result of two different designs/plastic formulas. I'd guess that the black ones sell faster than the clear ones, so the black might be a new design; the clear being left over old design.
of course, I have no evidence for this surmise - just posting it as a way to kill time and procrastinate before doing something of slightly higher importance.
cheese is good
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-07-15 17:41
Bob D stated:
"If a hardness tester could test such thin plastic accurately a difference in hardness wouldn't prove or disprove a difference in material."
I wasn't actually thinking about whether the material was different as such, but whether the properties and characteristics of the two are different. You actually articulated very well reasons why perhaps the two colors, even though made from the same material would respond or react differently. Thanks for the great input! Something to consider...
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-07-15 18:59
larryb .......I live in the KC area and frequent the Luyben's store. I wouldn't call the change in the ligatures a design change so much as I would an update on the old design. Annette told me that the mold they had used for all these years to make the ligs needed to be replaced so they went back to the original drawing by Bob Luyben to make a new one. In making the new mold they were able to use technology available now with computers and make the ligature to the exact specs of the original design. When the original mold was machined it was all done without computer aid so it was not as precise as it is now. I think this may have been mentioned in the Clarinet Journal article too.
The only noticeable changes are that they did add a bit of ridging to the new mold that was on the original drawing but didn't get put into the original mold........ I don't think it changes the way it sounds. It just keeps the lig from slipping.
I own both the old and new ligatures and they sound just the same to me. I play the black ones but have played the clear ones and found that they sound the same.
Annette Luyben is a very helpful person. When you go into her store you enter a wonderful world of music. Not just clarinet music. True, they are the ultimate music source for clarinetists but they have a nice stock of all music. It's a very old store with a lot of history. I remember Bob Luyben and what the store was like in the 70's. My Buffet R-13 was purchased from the Luyben's in 1974 and was given to me as a Christmas gift from my parents. I saw the receipt on it a few years later and I think it cost $450.00. It was one of 6 R-13's the Luyben's had hand selected in Paris and brought back to their KC store. My private teacher then played them all and picked the best one for me. I still play it as my main clarinet to this day.
Rebecca
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-07-17 23:28
someone mentioned that the screws can strip - i've seen that happen twice, but one of the ligatures was 33 years old, so i figure i got my money's worth.
anyway, they'll replace it if it fails - lifetime warranty.
i was there 2 days ago - drop in if you're in the KC area.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2005-07-17 23:46
Another Luyben lover here. I have used them since the early 70's and I still think they're the best. Simple, inexpensive and effective!
I have a clear one that's 30+ years old and a few clear and black ones that are more recent. They all pretty much play the same.
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-11-09 16:56
Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread... but my question seemed to fit best here.
Is there by chance more than one size of Luyben ligature? My teacher had me try one of his out (a clear one), and it sounded great. However, the ligature barely was able to meet for the top screw, and did not meet at all for the bottom screw. I've noticed my mouthpiece (Fobes CF+) is larger than most, but didn't think it was quite that large... So, different sizes of Luyben lig? Thanks.
-Andy Cabrera
a.l.cabrera@gmail.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-11-09 18:25
Tighten the screws down as recommended above. It will stretch.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-11-09 23:44
Goat,
Some mouthpieces are just plain bigger than others. My gigliotti MPCs (yes, multiple) are very large and certain ligatures don't fit on it. For a viable alternative that seems to be similar in principle to the Luyben (and Bonade for that matter), try the gigliotti ligature. Definitely fits, it's made of plastice, and it has "ribs" which touch the reed while keeping the other plastic away from constricting or even touching it's sides.
But while luyben screws strip, gigliotti screws will SNAP! They are plastic while luyben is metal. I believe it's a safety type feature. Better to have the screw snap from overtightening and just replace the screw (order some spares if you can) than to overtighten and have the entire plastic ligature crack and split apart. The old gigliotti ligature had metal screws with metal threads, and I overtightened it and now there's a crack large enough rendering it un-useable whereas my other gigliotti ligature (newer one) I can simply replace the screw if I overtighten it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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