 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetmaniac101
Date: 2005-06-15 23:55
well I just rcentley just posted a message about mouthpiece set up. I have a new question, does anybody have anything negative about the greenline R-13 buffet clarinets. Now my teacher told me that he has tried a couple of the greenline clarinets and don't have a thing for them and he backs his reasons up with this. He says that the greenline clarinet is a compatced wood wich makes not crack and the orginal R-13 has a much darker sound. The greenline has a kind of a bright tone wich is ok for some uses. And he also says that the greenline is not real wood and that's why they will not crack and I wanted to ask does anybody have anything negative or positive to say about the greenline clarinet thanks so much.
Rashad
*clarinet
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-06-16 00:35
clarinetmaniac101,
Using the search feature on this BB will turn up plenty of information on Greenline.
Hans
Post Edited (2005-06-16 00:35)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-06-16 02:52
I'm very satisfied with a Greenline I bought, and David Hattner has nothing but nice things to say about one he just acquired. The chief criticism I have heard from others whom I respect is that they don't have quite the ring of a great wood horn. I think that is true to a limited degree, but easily remedied by putting a wood barrel and bell on the horn.
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-06-16 04:27
I read somewhere that someones Greenline R-13 was dropped from a height of 3 ft. and the upper joint completely broke in half!!! I have also read that their overall sound pales in comparison to a REAL wood clarinet. My opinion would be to buy a REAL wood clarinet and take care of the wood (research on the BBoard to find out what processes to use and precautions to take). If your heart is set on one, you can read the many reviews on this BBoard or visit music123 and read what some of the people who own one have to say about it and base your decision off of those.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-06-16 04:41
Claribone - you say you "read somewhere" about the breaking joint. You also say you "read that" their sound pales in comparison to traditional wood clarinets.
I suggest you actually pick one up and play it.
I first tried one a couple of months ago. A customer brought her clarinet in for adjustment, and I was asked to play test it before she picked it up. I was floored by how well it responded, and it wasn't until after I put it back in the case that I noticed the Greenline label. I loved the sound.
As far as breakage goes - at the store we've never had a Greenline clarinet or oboe with a broken joint. We have had to replace several clarinet upper joints this year due to bad cracks.
Just my experience, YMMV.
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-06-16 07:08
Merlin-I apologize. It was in a thread posted a LONG TIME AGO (whats that about the mind is always the first to go!!!! by Clay entitled "Buffet R-13 Green Line?????" in which a reply by LeWhite was posted which said an OBOE-player's Greenline oboe fell from his/her chair and "split in two". As for the sound, an old professor of mine had the oppurtunity to play-test many clarinets and wrote me saying that the wooden clarinets were, in her opinion, far superior to the Greenlines. However, none of my experiences were first hand, so take them with a grain of salt.
Post Edited (2005-06-16 08:15)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-06-16 12:06
A friend of mine (professional clarinetist) went to the Buffet factory to choose new Bb and A clarinets. He tried about 40 instruments, both Greenline and wood. The two instruments that he liked the most because of sound and intonation both happened to be Greenline. I know other professionals who have also chosen Greenline over wood.
Bottom line... try them for yourself.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-06-16 12:07
Theoretically, in my opinion, the Greenline process should be capable of resulting in a clarinet with some features that are superior to conventional "blackwood" horns. When someone defines "crack" in a manner that everyone agrees on then perhaps we can decide if Greenline horns will or will not crack.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-06-17 20:31
I owned 2 Greenline R-13s and found them both to be exceptional in intonation and tone quality. They were wonderful to play outdoors and in other situations where the temp. and humidity varied. I sold them only for financial reasons--they were backups to my wood. I have later regretted that decision. They were hand-selected by Lisa Argiris and she really did a good job.
It's true that you may have to search a bit more to find a greenline with a really great tone--but they are out there. A good one is worth the search. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if I could find a good one at a good price.
Sigh.
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Author: frank
Date: 2005-06-18 08:35
I've owned a few Greenline clarinets (both Bb and A) and do not play them anymore. I sold my set a couple years ago and will not go back to playing Greens. They are nice even playing horns, but I find a good wood R13 resonates better and has more character and life. This of course is subjective opinion. I am not sure if I would classify the sound as being more bright. I didn't like the added weight of the Greenline. All of the Greenlines I have ever tried/owned... about 15 total...played very similarly. They all were kind of dead sounding to a degree, in my opinion. I currently play an R13 from 1985. I like the older horns. If it hasn't cracked by now it probably will not. A good older horn is more stable in my opinion. I have not experienced "blow out" of any kind. The 1985 R13 plays great and everyone who has tried it really loves it. It is very even and has great intonation and character. Again, this post is strictly opinion.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-19 23:05
At OU I tried lots of clarinets out and here's my order of Buffets from favorite to least favorite:
R13 Prestige
R13 Greenline
Festival
R13
R13 Vintage
RC
Tosca
I happened to like the greenline a lot. I liked the tone very well and it looked like a sturdy clarinet. I just liked the darkness in the Prestige more.
Try it out and see for yourself! Good luck!
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Author: lisabilski
Date: 2005-06-20 16:32
Brenda:
I'm sorry you regret selling yours, but I for one am not sorry you did! I am still enormously enjoying the Bb I purchased from you. You'll be glad to know I am taking good care of it, though - I just sent it off to the Brannens for some routine maintenance. It's due back tomorrow and I can't wait to get it.
I had a friend who plays professionally who was so impressed that he went and bought himself his own set!
Lisa
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2005-06-20 16:45
just bought a greenline rc prestige e flat....it is amazing!
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Author: robertnsmith
Date: 2015-01-06 23:49
I play a set of Greenline Tosca clarinets chosen by Mark Nuccio and purchased used from RDG Woodwinds in LA. I came to these instruments after the bore of my 10 year old Festival Bb warped. While I loved the Festival, I can safely say that I love the Toscas in Greenline and especially love the Greenline material.
Now, a couple of things: 1) there are many out there who will rail against the Tosca. I think that coming from a Festival the Tosca is a very easy switch. The Tosca does correct many of the errors with the Festival such as a sharp clarion A5-C6. 2) I find that the Tosca A is perhaps the best A clarinet I have ever played in terms of tone, tuning and evenness of response. My Greenline A has a very pure tone, no stuffiness, and plays amazingly well.
In regards to the Greenline material, I do not see/or hear any distortion of tone when play tested with Grenadilla Tosca's. In fact, I would say that, with my setup, the Tosca Greenline has a darker tone and actually has a fluidity to the tone that the Grenadilla Tosca does not. I also find that the Greenline material is just as sturdy as a wooden clarinet but has similar tendencies if one were to drop/sit on the clarinet.
Lastly, I will offer my one critique of the Tosca. I am still not happy with the throat Bb on the Bb clarinet. It seems very stuffy on all Toscas that I've played. I really wish that Buffet would look at doing an automated mechanism to remedy this issue. However, the tuning of the Bb is spot on (at least they got that right).
My one critique of the Greenline is that Buffet seems to be lacking in available accessory items for the instrument. For example, I play in a group that tunes to A436 (Random, I know) and I would really like a 67mm Greenline Tosca barrel. However, it's been on back order from Buffet for over 9 months!!!
Overall, I find that these instruments, in Greenline, are a great investment as I believe the R-13 and other Buffets in Greenline are. They offer potentially a different feel but little to no difference in tone, are more consistent and, if you are picking from a small lot, seem to remain consistent from clarinet to clarinet. I would encourage anyone looking for a horn that will be played in multiple halls/environments to consider the Greenline horns.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-07 01:28
There are reports of Greenline oboes cracking between the trill toneholes which is something just as likely to happen to blackwood oboes, so they're not completely impervious to cracks.
Greenline as a material is very brittle without the tensile strength that natural timber has and they (both clarinets and oboes) will shed their middle tenons with very little force. I've replaced several R13 Greenline top joints myself and have also seen barrel and bell sockets that have broken clean off as well, so as a material I don't particularly care for those sort of properties. The bell had broken along a well defined line where the material had been built up in layers, like layers in a multi-coloured sand ornament. An oboist (Howard) over on the oboe boards had a Greenline oboe and the middle joint on that had broken clean off in the socket without any warning - search on that page as he posted photos of it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2015-01-07 03:10
Tons of Greenline clarinets are in orchestras today, chosen for their playing characteristics over everything else.
The only legitimate negative might be that the material is actually heavier than natural wood. To me, this is important, but can be outweighed by an excellent instrument that plays well and doesn't change in dimensions. This whole issue of Greenline being a "brighter-sounding" material is nonsense and you could find just as many people saying that it's "stuffy," i.e dark.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-01-07 04:19
My teacher plays a Greenline Eb, but a wooden Bb and A, in a professional orchestra. I'm not sure what her motivation for purchasing the Greenline Eb was, but she says the instrument has a much bigger sound, as opposed to the "smaller" sound of many Eb clarinets. (I believe she was comparing it to all Ebs in general, though, not wood vs. Greenline - though it's possible the Greenline material contributed to this difference.)
She may have also wanted the Greenline instrument for outdoors pops concerts during the summer.
Post Edited (2015-01-07 04:21)
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Author: Christopher Bush
Date: 2015-01-07 09:10
J.J. -
I'd be interested in seeing a source for your claim that the GL instruments weight more than the natural wood. I've been told by Buffet representatives several times that the GL Tosca weighs EXACTLY the same as the wooden Tosca, but have not weighed them myself with any device other than my own hands. Incidentally, they did feel the same weight.
I'll be in the Buffet NY Showroom again on Thursday if there are questions that must be answered.
Christopher Bush
Prof. of Clarinet - NYU
Princ. Clarinet - Glens Falls Symphony, Metro Chamber Orchestra
Director - NYU Composers Ensemble
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2015-01-08 05:07
I don't have any empirical data. It's merely anecdotal. I feel that the Tosca's I've compared (not back-to-back) were heavier in Greenline and I have handled R13s of both materials back-to-back and felt that I noticed the difference. Perhaps I'm wrong.
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Author: mddds
Date: 2015-01-08 12:43
to robertnsmith:
Im quite sure that i demo'ed your clarinets (from RDG) about 3-4 months before you purchased them.
I also REALLY liked the A Clarinet a lot. Not sure who owned the instrument originally, but it seemed to be brand spanking new.
I was not as wowed by the Bb as much so I may have probably split up the set if I went for the A Clarinet. however, I did consider buying both to have matching instruments, as my current R-13 sets are night (A) and day (Bb) different.
living in an EXTREMELY dry environment, I thought that the GLs were a wise choice for me.
I did notice that the GL's were heavier than my R-13's but that didn't matter to me.
Most importantly, I had recently come back to playing after a 13 or so year "sabbatical" so I didn't want to immediately make a large purchase until I "warmed up" a little. also, the instructor I was working with mentioned that my current A clarinet was perfectly fine.
For a period of time, I kept checking back w RDG to see if they were still available. I eventually purchased a Prestige Basset A clarinet, which I love.
congratulations on a great purchase.
what a small world.
-CK
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2015-01-09 02:18
Here is a thread on clarinet weight:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=291463&t=126320
It becomes difficult to compare materials due to the different options (auxiliary Eb / Ab lever, barrel length, etc.). My Buffet Festival Greenline weighed about 853 grams actual playing weight.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: robertnsmith
Date: 2015-01-09 23:10
to mddds:
Truly a small world! I agree with you. The A clarinet in this set is spectacular. The Bb, as I played it more did give me a bit of trouble. However, one thing I did discover was that the mouthpiece I was originally using was not very well suited to the set of clarinets. I had my mouthpiece tweaked and the Bb now really sings.
The only thing I need to really have done to the Bb is have some of the key action lightened. The keys are very heavy. Great if you need to get through some awkward passages but a bit cumbersome in other circumstances.
I'm now on the hunt for an Eb clarinet of any sort that will be played sparingly in a Wind Ensemble. I know there are some Leblanc Esprit Eb clarinets out there. Does anyone have any information or recommendations on that clarinet. Since I won't be using it too often and I can compensate for some tuning, I was thinking it might be a good choice as it's far cheaper than any of the Buffet or even Patricola models.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-09 23:55
While it IS true that Greenline material is more brittle than wood, if you are not going to use it while executing a sideways run across the parade field, you should be ok.
My experience is that the resin material is denser per unit of size than wood so that would make it heavier..............slightly.
................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2015-01-09 23:56)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-10 00:07
I just heard today that someone's R13 Greenline snapped in half not long before a marching display (she clipped the bell against something) so she used someone else's clarinet while they mimed the display on their A clarinet. I've heard from others they've had at least three replacement top joints within a couple of years. Why Buffet can't fit a wooden or even a carbon fibre reinforced middle tenon to them as standard is anyone's guess as these broken tenons aren't a new phenomenon. Surely they're making a loss on every Greenline sold if they have to supply replacement joints under warranty, only for that replacement joint to shed its tenon not all that later on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-01-10 02:54
IMHO, Buffet probably needs to find an improved material of which to make their "hardened" clarinets. A proprietary plastic of some sort ... they could call it something other than "plastic" ... maybe add 5% wood filler so it would still qualify as a wood/resin composite.
And, I wonder why we don't see R13s in Rosewood or Cocobolo? Are these alternate hardwoods in short supply or is the quality suffering like Blackwood?
Buffets in Rosewood or Cocobolo would rock! I don't know how they would sound or hold up, though ... I suspect Blackwood is still King of the Hardwoods in terms of density, durability and stability.
Tom
Post Edited (2015-01-10 02:56)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2015-01-10 02:55
FACT: We don't know what the ingredients are in the Greenline "mix" and we don't know if or when Buffet changes the mix. It's a similar situation to that with German Silver which has at least 20 tradenames and compositions. If the composition is what has been bantered around then the end result is a rather brittle material which is only made worse by machined inside corners that can be too small radius. I have no actual experience with Greenline but speak from over 30 years experience in Plastics and Metals as a Metallurgical/Materials Engineer. Buffet can change the material and still refer to it as Greenline....and improve the mechanical properties.
Bob Draznik
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Author: tonyl
Date: 2015-01-10 07:19
I found the Greenline had nice intonation and very stable pitch. But, yes they are brittle. I dropped one from a couple feet off the ground and it completely shattered the bell.
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Author: claaaaaarinet!!!!
Date: 2015-01-15 07:20
Chris P is correct about the tenons snapping off. I wouldn't have believed it until I saw one myself a few weeks ago. It is common enough, apparently, that there is a guy in Wisconsin who has developed a method of replacing the missing tenon inexpensively. We (my store) sent the tenonless clarinet to him for repair, so I will be interested to see it when we get it back. I hear the problem is more common with GL oboes. This isn't to say that you shouldn't buy a GL, just that they are not crack proof.
Post Edited (2015-01-16 07:42)
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2015-01-15 19:32
My Greenline R-13 has a 1995 serial number and was bought new either in '95 or '96. Nothing has cracked or snapped off it yet. The closest I have come to dropping it was when it rolled out of an unlatched case I picked up. (The pieces did not hit end-first). It did have a stuck barrel recently which another clarinetist wrenched off. Since, to my surprise, the tenon stayed in place then, the material may be more robust than many people believe.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-15 22:06
The middle tenon is much weaker than the top tenon, but if the barrel was removed without any undue stress, then that won't be a problem - the middle tenon is carrying the extra weight of the lower joint and bell, so any sideways stress will cause that to break clean off.
Most of the Greenlines I've had to replace the top joints on had their tenons broken while the clarinet either fell or got knocked over or the instrument was being held by the top joint while being swung down to the side with a bell lyre fitted and loaded up with march cards.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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