 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mags
Date: 2005-01-20 22:27
My clarinet teacher has told me that the mouthpiece should ideally be sterilised once a week in some warm sterilising solution....Do you think this would damage the cork? I haven't done it yet. Mgt x
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-20 22:32
Could be good advice if you're letting your friends use it or you have chronic colds. Typically, simple hand washing in warm soapy water is adequate. Probably more important is advice to handle the mp very carefully at all times to avoid scratching or nicking it. Ask your teacher why he advises this and how he thinks you should do it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-01-20 22:37
I have cleaned mouthpieces but have never let anything that is used to sterilize the mouthpiece come into contact with the cork. I don't think it makes for long cork life. If there is something out there that can sterilize the mouthpiece and the cork, I would like to know.
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Author: mags
Date: 2005-01-20 22:53
I don't let anyone touch my mouthpiece (or the clarinets) . My teacher is in the Roal Marine band..I think it must be common practice for them.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-01-21 15:20
After doing some checking around about this subject, I've come to use a two-step process to clean my mouthpieces. 1.) clean the mouthpiece with a dish soap and water solution. The soap that I like to use is made by Seventh Generation. It's often sold in health food stores. It's a pure soap formula that doesn't leave a film or residue on the mouthpiece. Dry the mouthpiece. 2.) Spread peroxide all over the mouthpiece (inside and out) with a q-tip. Let the peroxide dry on the mouthpiece. This will disinfect the mouthpiece in a way that won't discolor or otherwise hurt the hard rubber. Rise the mouthpiece in tap water and dry it. This works well for me. I've been told that peroxide kills 99.9% of germs and bad stuff.
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-01-21 15:31
Roger, do you wash the mouthpiece including cork? Do you use peroxide on the cork? I clean mouthpieces the same way but have always feared fouling the cork with peroxide and dish soap. No personal experience, just unfounded fear.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-01-21 16:22
Dano,
I haven't experienced any problems with washing the entire mouthpiece (including the cork) in Seventh Generation dish soap and water. As I mentioned before, it's a very pure and gentle formula. I typically haven't used peroxide on the cork. I honestly don't know if peroxide will have a negative impact the cork or not. I simply focused on using peroxide on the hard rubber parts of the mouthpiece -- in particular the beak and inside the mouthpiece. So far, so good with this approach. I've used it on all of my clarinet and saxophone mouthpieces...around 17 at last count.
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2005-01-21 16:54
I soak my mouthpiece (Walter Grabner AWS personal series/Zinner Blank) in sterisol after each use. By using "The Doctors" cork products, specifically his cork treatment once, and Doctor Slick constantly, the mouthpiece cork is preserved. I have been doing this for years, with no problem.
jmsa
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Author: ClarinetGirl312
Date: 2005-01-22 02:16
I use "The Doctors" mouthpiece cleaning product every couple weeks and it works great! It comes with a little "treatment chamber" that you fill to only a certain point-you're cork won't get wet that way, therefore not being damaged at all. It takes 15 minutes, max, but the results are great!
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-01-22 03:14
(Disclaimer - I make a mouthpiece cleaner)
Cleaning a mouthpiece with 3% peroxide over time is probably not a good idea because it will deteriorate the rubber on the surface - oxidation of rubber is one of the prime deterioration factors (taken from tire lore). There have been several threads in the past about mouthpiece sterilization and I won't repeat all of it but a few factors are important.
Cleaning and sterilizing (lets get the terms sanitizing - physically removing germs, disinfection - killing pathogenic organisms, and sterilization - killing all organisms - correct to start with) are in effect two different processes. Cleaning a mouthpiece is intended to remove inorgainic deposits (usually the white calcium carbonate residues) and organic residues from skin detritus and minute food particles which harbor, and are used as a food source, by bacteria. Some chemical process is needed to remove the inorganic deposits while soap and water will generaly remove most of the organic deposits. Pathogenic organisms can either be bacteria, mold - fungus, or viruses. Most bacteria, and mold found in mouths and the environment are not pathogenic - thank goodness!!!
In order to disinfect or sterilize the mouthpiece you must use chemicals that inactivate or destroy bacteria, mold, and viruses. These generally fall into the catagories of oxidation or chemical cell wall disruption agents. The common chemicals used in mouthpiece disinfection formulations are isopropyl alcohol or tertiary ammonium compounds (of course hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizing agent). The important aspects in any disinfection process are the strength of the agent used, the contact time, and temperature. Most of the commercially available formulations are not really effective in disinfection or sterilization because the agents used require prolonged contact time at at least 20 degrees C. None of the aforementioned agents is really effective in killing several of the pathogenic viruses - including flu virus. None are much more effective than physically washing the mouthpiece with soap and water.
Most manufacturers will not make claims about sterilization because there are rules set by the Environmental Protection Agency in the U.S. and these formulations must be registered and scientific data given for claims. This process is lengthy and costly and still does not remove liability for misuse of the product. The qualifications for a disinfectant are that it will kill pathogenic organisms - the amount and classification of these bugs need not be given. A more stringent test is a quantitiative panel of know pathogenic bacteria, mold, and viruses that is sanctioned by the Centers for Disease Control. Most manufacturers will not give results of these tests because the criteria are too stringent and CDC is not a government regulatory agency with "police" powers for disinfectant formulations.
The upshot of my own testing is that a thorough washing with soap and water is as effective as most of the disinfectants sold for mouthpiece purposes. The mouthpiece should be thoroughly dried after cleaning. This process is not guaranteed to remove dried and solidified organic matter and will not remove the inorganic deposits but will be helpful for removing harmful bacteria, mold and virus.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Claire
Date: 2005-01-22 05:03
what about a vinegar and water solution? That's what I use and it works perfectly. It's what most restaurants use to clean their tables and if digested, it will not harm you which is more than what can be said for Isopropyl alcohol and I'm not sure about dish detergent, but I'd imagine that's not overly safe either. Also with dish soap, doesn't it make the mouthpiece turn green?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-01-22 11:59
Simple - Soap and Water. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't use a heavily deodorant soap like Irish Spring.
Get the junk off of the mouthpiece with that. You should do that once a month, not weekly as each time you are dealing with water in the sink, you are risking dropping your mouthpiece and breaking it on a hard surface.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-22 13:17
"It's what most restaurants use to clean their tables ".....Whew, I don't believe it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-01-22 13:53
There's a music store (big chain) here that uses Tidy Bowl as their Mouthpiece Sterilizer for rental returns.
I thought that was pretty disgusting, but they of course rinse it out.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-01-22 16:03
its been one heck of a long time since i studied chemistry, but i'm fairly certain that resturants use sodium hypochlorite , and NOT vinegar.
sodium hypochlorite is the active ingredient in clorox. (bleach).
a 20% solution of white vinegar in water for a few minutes will help descale a mouthpiece, but if you use too strong a solution or too long a contact time you'll turn the mouthpiece green. been 30 years since i was a chemistry student - so my memory is fuzzy - but i think that sets up a redox reaction which will remove the calcium and some other mineral deposits.
so careful what you use to clean mouthpieces - very hot water or strong chemicals tend to turn them green. look around any middle school band hall, you'll see a few yuck-green colored mouthpieces.
paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Covalaga
Date: 2005-01-22 16:20
I have always cleaned my mouthpieces with a small (baby's) toothbrush and toothpaste. I take the premise that if it is good enough for your teeth it must be equally good enough for your mouthpiece. The added bonus is that you need not make contact with the cork and also the mouthpiece is much fresher. Some of the proprietry brands of sterilising solution sometimes take the finishing shine away from the mouthpiece. Having taught for many years, you wouldnt be surprised at the state of some of the pupil's mouthpiece--some look like they are starting their own Penicillin Factory. I always insisted on inspecting the mouthpiece at each lesson and don't allow the pupil to start until it is clean.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-01-22 18:40
Restaurants that clean traditionally use vinegar and water.
Nick
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-01-23 00:29
(Disclaimer - I make a mouthpiece cleaner)
Bleach at a 5% solution is a very good disinfecting solution with a contact time of 5 minuntes at 20 degrees C but it not very good for mouthpieces (or especially cork) - too strong an oxidizing agent! A 50% solution of white vinegar - acetic acid active ingredient - is a decent cleaning agent for mouthpieces and will reduce some of the build up of the white calcium deposits (but not all) but does little without some abrasive contact - an old tooth brush will work fine - to remove crusty organic deposits. The best idea is to rinse out the mouthpiece with cool tap water after every use which will remove most of the deposit forming agents both organic and inorganic.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-16 12:38
wow... I'm not sure what to do after all that! On the one hand, alcohol and other such products would be potentially harmful if you didn't rinse thouroughly and I'd imagine that and vinegar would make the MP taste horrible! and even soap... how could you deal with that soapy taste? I mean, no matter how much you rinse, it's still going to have, at least a slight aftertaste of soap. mmmmmm... !
but I have seen each solution refuted by someone with really good reasons! so what are you supposed to do? I feel disgusted because i don't swab the MP anymore... but I'm not sure how to wash it because it's such a controversial issue. and I'm too afraid to get the cork wet...
but now it's getting nasty. no mold yet though...
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Author: JoeMich
Date: 2005-02-16 16:39
I read all the replies and am amused with the suggested procedures. A lot of this sounds like overkill. Let me tell you about the procedure I've used on a daily basis for the past four years.
First, before I play/practice I always brush my teeth thoroughly. After I finish playing I remove the moputhpiece, properly store the reed and lig. Then, I take a tissue, (Kleenex), and fold it in half on the diagonal. Next, I twist one of the corners into a long thin "rope". I insert this twisted end into the bore of the mouthpiece from "below", (the end with the male tenon). Finally, I pull the tissue through the mouthpiece. All slobeers are gone, the bore is dry and clean! And, NO I haven't damaged the mouthpiece. The force resulting from the wiping action is minimal, and after 4 years the inner surface looks like it did originally. ......... simple, quick, effective and safe!!
Joe
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-02-16 16:59
Yeah, but now there will be a debate about what brand of facial tissue is best.
;-)
JDS
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Author: massa
Date: 2005-02-16 19:21
I only do simple things...
As Joe mentioned, brushing teeth before you play
is very important aspect of keeping the instrument
and MP clean. It's just easier being proactive.
After playing, I always rinse my MP with gentle-running
water and lightly rub the surface with finger (not nail).
Wipe it off with clean soft cloth.
I never use warm/hot water to do this ritual
to avoid unnecessary discolouration of the MP.
About facial tissues...
Don't they leave a small scratch on the MP surface??
Optometrists don't recommend to use tissue paper
on the glasses (because paper will scratch the plastic
lenses??) so I don't use tissue paper to wipe off the MP.
- m
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2005-02-16 23:20
Think the good Doctor has the right answer... "rinse out the mouthpiece with cool tap water after every use.." That makes good sense!
Fred
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-17 11:36
I can't imagine toothpaste being good for a rubber or plastic mpc. Tooth enamel is a lot tougher than either of these materials. Same goes for tissues for the reason that Massa brought up. Wood fiber tissues are very hard on glass. Think what it can do to a mpc over time.
I personally just use a silk swab pulled from the cork end with an occasional rinsing. works for me.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-17 12:25
I don't think running a tissue through is a good idea because you're not supposed to run a swab (even a SILK swab) through it, because it harms the interior of the MP. therefore I don't think a tissue would be any better.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-17 17:27
Music_is_life:
Everyone has opinions. Don't buy into everything people tell you. Consider the opinions on their merits & arguments! So with that said - here are mine.
I personally don't believe a loose silk swab pulled through a mpc from the tenon end daily for any period of time will appreciably change the shape of any mpc. If you pull a tight cotton swab through in either direction I believe damage can be done. If you pull (cotton or silk, worse with cotton) from the tip instead of from the tenon I believe damage can be done as the swab will cause friction as it slides over the tip rail. These opinions will be discounted by some & agreed with by some. It's a gray area of instrument care, along with (eg) direction to pull through the instrument.
It's a known fact that wood fiber tissues are bad for glass. Since both rubber and plastic are (generally) softer materials I would expect that tissues would be even worse on these materials than glass. Therefore I would never take a tissue to a mpc. Same goes for toothpaste, which has as one of it's components silica which is basically very fine sand - a very good abrasive.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-18 12:44
ok- I have the solution! warm water through the MP once every 3 weeks. dont get the cork wet, gaurd it with something like a paper towel...
the solutions will discolor the MP and swabs and tissues will either scratch it or damage the interior.
I hear rumor of some kind of special solution for the MP- persue if interested, I think it's overkill...
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Author: CPW
Date: 2005-02-18 18:26
Germs and bugs and slime
there are plenty
Gunk and silt and goo
we have some many
To clean the Vandoren
and polish the Grabner
Never use acid or lye
or whatever
Soap and water
with a little care
is all you need.
Really. So there!
except for me....I use terminal sterilization by Gamma irradiation. ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
betcha all missed me.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-02-18 18:52
AT what terminal may we recieve Gamma? is it really worth trying? Also since I've broken this silence, how about dilute acetic ACID, better known as vinegar ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-18 19:23
ooh poetry! let me try!
vinegar, peroxide
they're having such a fit!
silky swabs or tissues,
who really gives a s***?!
I wonder what this soap does
will it turn my mouthpiece green?
can I get the cork wet
I just wanna get it clean!
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Author: CPW
Date: 2005-02-18 19:25
The trouble with mouthpieces:
50% of mouthpieces can be sterilized by vasectomy, and 50% by tubal disruption.
I had to resort to this technique since they were multiplying in my drawers, then shoeboxes, and finally in the storage bins.
Now they are no tribble at all. ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: BizNizzy
Date: 2005-02-18 20:24
At any Home Depot or Lowes, you can obtain synthetic cork. It's very easy to apply. All you need is some sort of knife to cut away the old cork and some sandpaper to fit the synthetic cork to your barrel size. As far as cleaning, most people have a problem with calcium deposits left by bacteria in your saliva. Some have big problems with it, others don't. It's nothing to cry wolf over, but if you're into the aesthetics of your instrument, then dip it into warm water for about 5 minutes, then take a q-tip and try to rub the calcium deposits off the sides and rails. If they don't budge, take a small amount of vinegar to a q-tip and gently apply to the dirty spot. Let sit for a few minutes, then dip in warm water, and try to wipe it off with a try q-tip. But be careful, as the vinegar over a long period of time will give the mouthpiece a greenish-yellow hue, so use in emergencies only.
-William Wysocki
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-02-18 22:07
I thot this thing would die but it doesn't. Hey CPW, yes I did miss you....I think. You were one of those "initial" guys weren't you? The worst mouthpieces to clean are those used by heavy smokers or chewers of tobacco. Soap and water won't cut it. The good news is that nicotine kills some microorganisms.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-02-19 02:51
So CPW is a Trekkie....or is it Trekker?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: MusicalChemist
Date: 2014-12-21 16:28
From a chemist who is also a clarinettist's point of view, hydrogen peroxide at 3-6% is fine for rubber, I cant say its worthwhile to disinfect considering the mouthpiece will dry and without water any microbes will die, if there is anything to disinfect its your reeds! If you are wanting to clean the MP for cosmetic reasons a dilute strong acid ought to do the trick if those deposits are calcium carbonate.
I would suggest getting about 2 shot glasses of "spirits of salts" drain/tile cleaner and adding it carefully to a pint of water, that should give roughly a 2 mol litre solution of hydrochloric acid which cannot damage any rubbers or plastics but is harsh on carbonates and leaves no residue. It can however do damage to skin and the near spirits of salts is extremely corrosive and will release choking fumes as soon as the bottle is opened. Do the dilution outside and wear gloves and goggles. Wear goggles until the acid is down the sink, the dilute stuff is mildly irritating if left on skin so you can lose the gloves at that point. Leave the MP submerged for ~ 10-20 mins. Don't worry about the cork, its water/acid proof!
To confirm, its detergent that most likely turns our ebonite MPs green as detergent can react with oils and rubbers. Vinegar and other acids cannot.
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Author: MusicalChemist
Date: 2014-12-21 16:29
From a chemist who is also a clarinettist's point of view, hydrogen peroxide at 3-6% is fine for rubber, I cant say its worthwhile to disinfect considering the mouthpiece will dry and without water any microbes will die, if there is anything to disinfect its your reeds! If you are wanting to clean the MP for cosmetic reasons a dilute strong acid ought to do the trick if those deposits are calcium carbonate.
I would suggest getting about 2 shot glasses of "spirits of salts" drain/tile cleaner and adding it carefully to a pint of water, that should give roughly a 2 mol litre solution of hydrochloric acid which cannot damage any rubbers or plastics but is harsh on carbonates and leaves no residue. It can however do damage to skin and the near spirits of salts is extremely corrosive and will release choking fumes as soon as the bottle is opened. Do the dilution outside and wear gloves and goggles. Wear goggles until the acid is down the sink, the dilute stuff is mildly irritating if left on skin so you can lose the gloves at that point. Leave the MP submerged for ~ 10-20 mins. Don't worry about the cork, its water/acid proof!
To confirm, its detergent that most likely turns our ebonite MPs green as detergent can react with oils and rubbers. Vinegar and other acids cannot.
BLM
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-12-22 00:13
This just goes to prove what my uncle used to say . . . opinions are like a.. h...., everyone has one.
MusicalChemist: For those who don't know and want to try your system, hydrochloric acid is available at the hardware or pool supply store as muriatic acid. Also, for dilution remember "If you're doing what you autta, add the acid to the water. May your rest be long and placid if you add the water to the acid." It is a highly exothermic dilution. In addition, drying out does not kill all microbes. A great many have ways to protect themselves from drying for from a few days to many years.
My method is as follows:
1. I always brush my teeth before playing even if it means I have to skip a meal before I am scheduled to start playing. Not unusual when you consider I live in the mountains, so rarely play anywhere near home.
2. When done playing, I shake excess moisture out of the mouthpiece.
3. I pass one of The Doctor's silk swabs through ONCE from the cork end making sure it doesn't drag across any sharp edges as it exits.
4. I use the swab to wipe the outside of the mouthpiece.
5. When the mouthpiece eventually starts to get gunky, I clean it with The Doctor's mouthpiece cleaner according to the provided instructions.
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Author: The Doctor ★2017
Date: 2014-12-22 00:27
(Disclaimer - I make Doctor's Mouthpiece Cleaner)
Just want to set the record straight. Doctor's Mouthpiece cleaner is a dry powder with 1/4 teaspoon mixed with 4 oz (120 mL) of cool water. It is non toxic in powder or liquid form and contains no acids (hydrochloric or acetic) but removes carbonates, other mineral residues and removes organic deposits inside the mouthpiece and sanitizes the mouthpiece.
I rinse out my mouthpiece with cool water after every use and this should diminish or eliminate the crud on the outside and inside the mouthpiece and will greatly reduce the amount of further cleaning needed.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-23 23:11
On my O'Brien crystal MPs, I used a denture cleaning tablet. Submerged the MP in warm water, broke the tablet in half and dropped half on the inside of the MP and the other half in the outside. Probably not good for the cork, but got it clean as a whistle ... (are whistles really that clean?).
I wish really good and consistent crystal MPs were plentiful. I only chipped one, while marching.
Tom
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The Clarinet Pages
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![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif)
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) and have not had any mouthpieces degrade on me in any noticeable ways. My Borbeck is still fine after some 20 years of doing it. (I AM that old!! ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
)