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Author: Harold
Date: 2003-09-30 02:07
What should I tell my eye doctor to ensure the best result when getting music glasses (for us over 50 types). Do you look periperally at the orchestra conductor through or just above the glasses? If the average focul length is, say, 27 inches -- eye to music sheet; does the image stay in focus plus or minus 3 or 4 inches, or is it more confining? Are these glasses full frame, or partial/ half frames like some reading glasses? Anything else I should know. HELP. Thanks.
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-09-30 02:10
personally I try NOT to look at a conductor .... gives them way to much feeling of control and that's NOT good to foster.
I joke - but my eyesight has been heading to hell-in-a-hand-basket since I had a fairly "major" birthday last month ... I must pull my finger out and get to the optomotrist
sigh
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-09-30 03:16
One word......TRIFOCALS
The bottom for reed adjustments
The middle for the music
The top for the conductor.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-30 12:14
Definitely not progressive lenses, or you will have to turn your head to follow the music instead of glancing from side to side! I've just been down that mistaken path.
Another option: Bifocals, and add another pair of cheap reading glasses when you need close up work such as reed adjustment.
Or the cheapest option: Cheap reading glasses for the music, and peer over the top at the conductor.
"does the image stay in focus plus or minus 3 or 4 inches?"
That will depend on just how solid your lenses have become, and the brightness of the lighting (which narrows the aperture of the pupil, which in turn increases depth of field).
Unless your eyes have stopped changing (i.e. lens has stopped solidifying), then may I suggest the cheapest option, especially if there are no complications such as astigmatism, otherwise you are likely to have to keep replacing lenses quite regularly until the eyes have stabilised.
Australian research provides hope: Suck out the relatively solidified contents on the lens, replace it with a introduced liquid, and then turn that liquid into a gel, something like the original we had in our youth, by firing some special wavelength light at it. Youthful sight with almost full accommodation can be restored - no glasses needed. So far it has been done with rabbits. Here's hoping in about 5 to 10 years time.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-09-30 12:37
Hi,
Here is another quick fix. Rather than look over the top of the reading glasses as Gordon has suggested, if you look around, you can find reading glasses that have the magnifying part in just the small bifocal at the bottom; the rest of the glass is clear. About $5 US. That way, you can look through the rest of the glass rather than over it.
Unfortunately, the bifocal part may be focused too close for music work. Thus trifocals, as suggested earlier, may well be the best. I wear trifocals and the same distances as at a computer screen (close for keyboard and middle for the screen) work just as well for reed adjustment, music, and conductor.
HRL
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-30 13:35
Fine helpful and humorous comments above! Am I the first to mention the additional, but somewhat helpful, complication of having had cataract removal and lens replacement? Its common after 70 -/+ years. In spite of being corrected to 20/20-40, I need glasses because of astigmatism [sp??] for good distance vision [driving], and because of age, MUST have reading glasses [those *&^%$ bifocals!]. SO, a number of years ago, I asked my Opth. for a music glasses prescript., and via discussion settled on single lenses of an intermediate focal length of about 6 ft., so that my music at about 2-3 ft and the conductor at 10-20 ft [perhaps more] were both in "reasonable-useful" focus. Works fine for playing, I carry my bifocals, for reed adjustment and register key [bass cl] etc inspection. These glasses also work fine for computer screens, mirror use [its effective distance is 2X!] and some TV watching. Happily my macular deg. is still minor, generally need somewhat brighter light! Don't we have some musical-opth's for advice?? Am still talkative ain't I ?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-09-30 14:00
I do computer work for a living, so I have a special pair of glasses with prime focus at about arm's length -- about 30". These are perfect for reading music (as well as in art museums). Every optometrist knows what to prescribe.
In about 8th grade, the band director had everyone practice setting the stand fairly high, reading the music with the lower half of our vision, and looking at him over the top of the stand. In addition to being useful, it's a great excuse when the conductor says "you're not watching me."
If you can't see the conductor at all without glasses, a special set of bifocals is the solution, the lower half for music and the upper half for distance. Lenses can be ordered with the dividing line wherever you like. There are even ones for airline pilots with close-focus areas at the top as well as the bottom (to see the overhead gauges) and a long-distance area in the middle.
I agree with Gordon that Varilux (continuous-focus) lenses are not the solution. They're in focus only in a vertical stripe down the middle. My wife loves them, but they drive me crazy, and I would be a positive menace trying to drive with them.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-09-30 15:03
As usual Don Berger is right on the mark. Works good for me--except when I fall down the choir stairs having put on the wrong glasses.
Bob A
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-30 15:22
TKS, Bob A, I have to watch carefully where I am going also!! Falling isn't especially good, Bob, but the location cant be beat! The points that Ken and the above posters make are very valid as well, it is a "to each his own solution" world. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2003-09-30 17:13
Simply tell the eye doc what you want to accomplish. Since your eyes are unique, what's terrific for me might be awful for you. I happen to love my progressive lenses, others have trouble with them. (Note too that there are many different brands of progressives, each with their own strong and weak points.)
Let the doctor make a recommendation - your problem is not unique.
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-09-30 18:59
Harold --
My glasses have progressive lenses and they are fine for most things. However, since the reading distance area of the lens is toward the bottom, I found that I was having to tilt my head a lot reading music on a music stand. It was distracting and made for a sore neck. So, like Ken Shaw, I got a second pair of single vision glasses with the prime (reading) focus at about 30". These work fine. The image does stay acceptably in focus for a few inches on either side of the 30 inches, and I can see the conductor. I do usually put my reed on using my regular glasses, since they focus much closer, and then switch to the "music" glasses.
Todd W.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-09-30 22:50
I also went the route of single vision glasses with the focus set for reading music. While the conductor is a bit fuzzy, I can still see his movements well enough. For me, it is better not to have to worry about what part of the lens I'm using to read the music. This is particularly true when sharing a stand.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-10-01 12:57
It all depends on the state of your eyes. I have been severly near-sighted since age 8, with distance correction of about -8.00 diopters. In the last 5 years, my vision has progressed from single-vision lenses, through single-vision reading glasses and bifocals, to trifocals.
The best solution for me *now* are trifocals. I have two sets, a normal one, and another set the intermediate distance section straight ahead (as opposed to down.) Check with your optical dispenser - they may be able to get your lenses with an extra-large intermediate section. In any case, they can align the lenses in your frames so that you don't have to tilt your head to read your music. I use these glasses mostly at my day job, sitting at a computer, but they are also very good for music. With reasonably normal posture I can see the music and conductor without doing the middle-aged head-bob.
I also keep a set of single-vision glasses at intermediate strength in my case. These are good for practicing, and for conductorless jobs. Depending on your eyes, these may work well enough. You will have to decide whether you can see the conductor adequately and without fatigue.
Regards
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-10-01 13:50
Hi,
The standard tri-focals that I got are fine for the computer, all music gigs, and cars/airplanes (close for charts, mid for the panel and gauges, and far for collision avoidance and landing).
HRL
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2003-10-02 20:48
Take along a piece of music when you go to the eye doctor. You can show him what you have to see and at what distance the focus of the lenses should be. Most glasses are made for reading print but books are held much closer to the eyes then music on a music stand.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2003-10-03 04:14
I use my "computer" glasses too for reading sheet music. I tried to use the bifocals but it hurt my neck and didn't work well at all. So now I have two different pairs of glasses. One for computer work and one for long distance such as driving, etc. It works well.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-10-03 05:49
You are fortunate that you need only 2.
I need one for close-up work repairing instruments, one for work that is a little further away, one for reading, one for reaching for tools while working (which may do for reading from a music stand), one for seeing names on people at social events, and one for distance. Playing badminton is a bit of a problem.
I tried to cover all these with progressive lenses, but they did everything very badly, because of severely restricted 'peripheral' vision, which includes what I would prefer to call 'glancing' vision.
I am now compromising with one pair for badminton, and two pairs of bifocals, with cheap reading glasses I add to the work glasses for closer work.
I am looking forward to the replacement of the solidifying lens contents of my eyeballs.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-10-03 12:47
Hi,
As I mentioned above, the use of tri-focals has really made it easy with the music. The doctor did perscribe them just in terms of normal vision but they work great for the reed, music, conductor distances.
Maybe for musicians needing these three distinct focal lengths, trifocals may become more common just for the fact that one would not need three or four (sorry about that Gordon) different sets.
The interesting thing though is I do not wear any glasses to play golf (Oakleys with no correction though). I have perscription sunglasses but to drive the ball, I do just as well with no glasses at all. But of course, I can not see very clearly much beyond 150 yards so knowing where the tee shot actually lands is not possible - but then that is an added reason to hit it long and straight, right :-).
HRL
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-10-03 15:55
How many different lenses you can get away with depends on many things, including how much accommodation your eyes still have.
But tell me, do your trifocals have three strips across the lense, each of a different strength, or is the portion of lense used for close-up work actually a circular shape?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-11-16 19:30
Hi All,
I want to elevate this thread that is almost 20 years old. There were several excellent posts here that helped me a great deal back in the day. However, in the 20 years, using trifocals is not the answer for several reasons.
So, I find myself in a situation where I need single vision glasses set for reading music. My ophthalmologist said quite some time ago to try cheap reads which worked for a while but now do not cut it. The center lens for my trifocals is too narrow now; throw in a little presbyopia and you can see my problem.
The notes also seem to be difficult to read, particularly ledger lines just above the staff. I don't have any problem playing music once I can see it.
I think I need to also add a little magnification.
Hank
PS I have had great success using Finale to make more difficult parts visible/larger. Attached is the 2nd alto sax part for something we performed this past weekend.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-11-16 19:38
Attachment: Pages from Stravinsky Symphony.pdf (109k)
Hi All,
I want to elevate this thread that is almost 20 years old. There were several excellent posts here that helped me a great deal back in the day. However, in the 20 years, using trifocals is not the answer for several reasons.
So, I find myself in a situation where I need single vision glasses set for reading music. My ophthalmologist said quite some time ago to try cheap reads which worked for a while but now do not cut it. The center lens for my trifocals is too narrow now; throw in a little presbyopia and you can see my problem.
The notes also seem to be difficult to read, particularly ledger lines just above the staff. I don't have any problem playing music once I can see it.
I think I need to also add a little magnification.
Hank
PS I have had great success using Finale to make more difficult parts visible/larger. Attached is the 2nd alto sax part for something we performed this past weekend. Look around rehearsal 7. Tough at speed!
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2022-11-16 19:55
I'll preface this by saying that I had cataract surgery last year, which changes everything. BUT before that, I had similar problems. Progressives didn't work--Zone of focus was too narrow.
I solved the problem by having my optometrist make a special bifocal. The bottom 2/3 of the lens (approx.) was set for my music-stand distance. This is MUCH larger than a standard bifocal. He also extended it all the way across the lens, not just a "half-moon" at the bottom. The top portion was "distance" vision for the conductor.
We decided on the size of the bottom field by looking at a piece of music and deciding what was comfortable--Being able to see much of the page without a lot of head and neck motion.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-11-16 22:28
Thank you very much for bringing this thread to the surface, Hank.
I hit this point really suddenly a couple of months ago and it was very surprising.
It would be really good to know what the best current technology is for this kind of stuff.
It's great that finale is working well for adjusting the typesetting of your music. I used to have the job of enlarging sheet music for a lady in the choir in our church, and I found that the enlarger function on the photocopier was also great for doing it fast.
Post Edited (2022-11-16 23:14)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-11-17 00:10
This is a subject that probably has many answers. All depends on your vision and where you sit in the group. In 1997 I noticed I needed reading glasses, so had special bifocals set in the middle of the glasses I wore for my nearsightedness. As someone pointed out with another set up, I had to move my head to follow the music, especially a problem when I was soloing with the band. So I then used straight reading glasses. Fortunately being 1ist chair, I was right under the conductor's nose, so my fairly bad nearsightedness was not really a problem--I could look through the reading glasses or over them. Then in 2005 I had Lasic, so no longer needed glasses for nearsightedness, just reading glasses. Since then it was the same-- over or through the glasses, no different. Now without the Lasic, this may have been a problem had I been somewhere in a back row of the band.
Everyone's situation is a bit different and your situation can change over years.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2022-11-17 02:09
My $0.02
Years ago, sci-fi writer Jerry Pournelle had a column about the end-user experience "Computing at Chaos Manor" in BYTE magazine monthly. In one issue, he talked about good choices, including glasses, for people who worked at computer screens all day. In my mid-40's at the time, I took note of what he said for future use, and a decade later found his advice to be spot-on, for staring at both computers and sheet music.
Because of 20/400 uncorrected vision since my teens, I see an ophthalmologist twice a year. My daily glasses are made by a local optician whom I have found to work at a high level of precision, and who will still make them out of glass.
Once a year, the ophtho writes prescriptions for multiple sets of glasses: 1) normal bifocals, 2) single vision distance, and 3) single vision for a focal point just out of arms reach, which has been perfect for reading music. Because I am near-sighted, I pop the glasses up to adjust my reed. If you are far-sighted, bifocals would be more appropriate. This might also be true if you have had cataract surgery; I am going in that direction so it would be good to know.
Every time I have had the discount places make my daily-wear glasses, it has been a big fiasco. A couple of times, they talked me into trying high refractive index polycarbonate or another "state-of-the-art" plastic. But both times, the glasses either gave me splitting headaches, or I just couldn't see out of them, so my days of experimentation are over. I want to be treated like a customer, not a guinea pig. And heck, they are supposed to be the experts.
Simple, discount chain plastic glasses used for an hour or two at a time, and not for distance viewing, have been generally good. I was a contract employee for decades; my client (the people I really worked for) supplied me with plastic safety trifocals, and they worked well. Still, every other year, I have to sign a waiver in order to have my daily-wear specs made out of glass.
My wife and I both had vision plans through work, but now that we are retired, I am making due with a new pair of bifocals every other year. They come from the optician mentioned above, and the copay is not too bad. The prescriptions for the others go to Costco, where they do not do glass, their products are good enough, and the total cost per pair is less than the copay for the glass bifocals from the optician.
While I was working, I replaced a set of prescription sun glasses every 3-4 years or so. Now, the optician sells me a set of Cocoons, that fit over my every-day specs, for $65. Or I get a similar thing at a drug store chain (CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreens - can't remember which) for $20. Toward the end of last summer, I stumbled into a bogo sale for them.
|-(8^)
Post Edited (2022-11-17 02:11)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-11-17 02:17
Hi Tom,
Thanks, that's makes a lot of sense to me.
Slightly separate issue, but I used to volunteer in our local GP surgery and I learned there that bifocals/varifocals are a risk factor for falls. The problem is that the wearers can't see what their feet are up to when they are walking down stairs because the bottom part of the lens is meant for close work. That seems like a really important consideration to me, and maybe a really good argument for having walking-around glasses as well as orchestra glasses, and taking the time to switch over.
Jen
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-11-17 05:24
Hi All,
Some excellent advice from the above. It is nice to know that I am not alone and elevating this thread has provided me with some excellent updates.
Jen, you pointed out a problem that I often experience when I forget and walk around the house with my bifocal office glasses on. Stairs can be downright dangerous.
Ralph, maybe I should see your optician as I am close to you. in addition, we are long overdue for a coffee chat.
First rate advice from all of you.
Thanks,
Hank
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-11-17 20:38
I moved to what we in the UK call Varifocals. They're like bifocals in that they cater for both near and far. With these there isn't a dividing line between the two prescription but a smooth transition.
The thing I found with varifocals is there is a narrow band of what's in focus both horizontally and vertically in the reading area. Where those two bands cross is the sweet spot for reading music, or anything else. That means your head has to move to track the score or line of text. I found with one pair of such glasses the sweet spot in each lens wasn't aligned correctly with each eye. It took time to realise what the problem was. Here's what I did to identify the problem. The trick is to close each eye in turn while keeping the head in the same position and while looking at particular notes in the score. If the sweet spot on lenses aren't aligned correctly the notes will appear in focus with one eye but not so with the other. It might take a few tries to see this, especially if youre trying new glasses. I now do this test each time I get new glasses or lenses.
With the unaligned lenses I felt there was something wrong but just couldn't put my finger on it. I didn't get headaches from the bad lenses but some people might.
Having gone through several pairs of varifocals I now switch to single vision glasses for music. I can't see the wrinkles on the conductors' faces so we'll but can make out their expression, which is enough.
You do need to be careful with stairs with this type of glasses. I'm not sure that's entirely due to looking through the reading area. I find the periphery of the lens distorts the field of view. I now find myself misjudging where a ball is in space if playing catch with grandkids. Of course, the distortion happens for stairs as well. This might have something to do with my particular prescription.
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Author: oian
Date: 2022-11-20 08:15
The "Dollar Store" has some very narrow reading glasses (3/4" high and come in a small case) They work for those of us who only need magnifying readers. You can easily look at the conductor and watch the music without moving your head. The best part is you can't beat the price (The new Dollar Store price is now (1.25$)
Post Edited (2022-11-20 08:30)
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2022-11-20 15:10
There are also so called office-progressive lenses. The normal progressive lenses have a large area to look far away and a large area to read, their area for middle distance (notes, computer display) is very small and especially narrow, thus not working well in music.
The office progressives have a small far sight area on the top, a small reading area in the bottom and a big area in the middle for display (music stand) distance. They work quite ok, unless the sheet is very high. Then moving your focus from the bottom of the sheet to the top is somewhat challenging.
I have also so called executive lenses. They are bifocals that have a narrow far sight strip and the rest of it is for reading and that area can be adjusted to music distance. Then it doesn't have the reading distance anymore though...
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-11-20 18:27
Jarmo. We have those types in the UK as well. Opticians have been reluctant to prescribe those for me. Not entirely sure why. It could be because I go for rimless glasses and also the thinnest lens I can have. Those are not the thinnest lenses available as they can't accomodate my prescription. My glasses tend to be quite expensive as they are. Maybe I'll look further into the types Jarmo mentions but with a cheaper frame. However, if I remember correctly, the lenses get quite thick and unsightly , but I'll see. (Sorry for those two).
If anyone else has suggestions please tell me. Thanks.
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