 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: basser
Date: 2017-07-08 05:52
I'm in the market for a new bass clarinet. I've played the "top 3"-- Selmer, Buffet, Yamaha-- and recently had the opportunity to play a Uebel. I was pretty much blown away. Incredible horn. Anyone on here have any experience with them, I'd like to hear your take: pros/cons. I've read just about all the threads on here, but I couldn't find many postings from owners. Basically would you buy one again if you had to buy a new horn. Love Selmers but $$$. Not a big fan of the Buffet, and like someone on here said about the Yamaha bass--- it's pretty boring. Also it seems Uebel is out of the bass clarinets waiting for more to come in. If anyone has one they want to see, shoot me a message. Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-08 14:24
I'm surprised you're not a fan of the Buffet Prestige bass considering the Uebel Emperior bass is a direct copy.
I tried one and couldn't fault it - I only wish I had my Buffet bass with me to compare the two. But have been reliably informed there's not much (if anything) between them playing-wise.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: basser
Date: 2017-07-08 16:19
I know it's lame to try to judge an entire product line by playing one or two horns, but the Uebel seemed a lot more solid/heavier. More substantial. The tone was superior. In my research, I remember reading where the wood is slow cured and they offer a much longer warranty period than anyone else. I'm not sure but I believe the bore is slightly larger. It seemed to play much more evenly with quicker response. Side by side comparison showed a few slight differences in key workings, or I should say post locations. (I'm not a technician, so I might be using the wrong wording). Just can't seem to locate one.
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2017-07-08 19:03
Hi there! I'm an Uebel clarinet artist, and I own the Emperior. It is a FABULOUS instrument, and you are correct, the wood is very old and naturally cured for many years. (Which is why you will never see an Emperior bass with a lower joint made of two pieces of wood grafted together with a grenadilla ring to try to camoflauge the join, like some other low C basses.) The keywork has been redesigned a bit for the latest production run to make it even more ergonomic and comfortable for small hands. It does look like the Buffet at first glance, but if you play two side by side, you will very quickly feel the difference. The bore is also quite different from a Buffet bass. You will find on the Uebel that the sound maintains a very homogenous color from bottom to top, crossing the break feels very even, and the upper clarion and altissimo are rich and speak very easily.
You are also correct in that they are backordered and none are currently available in the US, but more are currently being built. (Uebel is in the midst of constructing an expansion of the workshop in Markneukirchen, which is playing a bit of havoc with the production schedule). They are coming, though! :-) My own personal instrument will be the one on display at ICA at the end of this month if you'll be there and would like to try it!
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-07-09 01:10
I own a Yamaha 622 II. What did you think of the tuning. I think they are 442 and tune a little sharper than the selmer and buffet.
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-09 04:39
You may want to hold off any opinion on the Yamaha. John Yeh said they are starting from scratch, realizing their horn is non competitive with the the Selmers and Buffets. Seeing what Yamaha has done with their clarinets and other wind instruments it certainly should be worth the wait.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-07-09 07:05
Basser, if you can get your hands on an Emperior, grab it! FANTASTIC horn!
RLarm, I was told by Rachael Hibser-D'Argenio at Yamaha that they have no plans on a re-design of either of their pro level basses.
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-09 07:35
Strange because John said that was their next clarinet project. They know that serious players are not buying their pro model and they want to start afresh.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-07-09 23:43
Hopefully John is right and Rachael is not..... I think you are correct about people not buying them.
Post Edited (2017-07-10 00:29)
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-10 05:54
Yamaha has indeed, for one reason or another, tabled their plans to redo the bass clarinet. Apparently, several outstanding prototypes were made in 2009 but they are just sitting on it for the moment.
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-17 18:37
Does the Uebel have the sax type register key like the Selmer? I much prefer the sax type register key to the in line key that is standard on some makes.
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-20 06:26
Hi tucker. Interesting pic. It looks very similar to the register key on the Ridenour low C bass. A few years ago I tried out the Ridenour low Eb bass and liked the way it played but the standard straight in line design of the register key was uncomfortable to the point of being painful so I didn't buy it. Then recently I found out that the low C Ridenour has an ergonomic register key that looks like the one in your pic. So I might take a look at the low C model. Do you find that the register key on the Uebel is comfortable and easy on the thumb?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-12-20 09:02
>> It looks very similar to... <<
It's pretty much a copy of the Buffet register key.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2019-12-20 22:23
Yes, r small, very comfortable on the thumb.
Clarnibass is right, from what I understand, the key working is very similar to the Buffet, but the bore design is "German" (whatever that means). The tech who has worked on my horn says, in his opinion, the Uebel is much more "substantial" than Buffet. Still makes comments about the quality of workmanship when he has serviced my horn.
I've been very pleased with it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-12-21 02:12
Uebel Emperior basses are around 98% identical to Buffet Prestige basses in their design - there are some minor cosmetic differences and the one I tried didn't have the adjusting screws on the bridge key linkages (long Bb and the automatic speaker mechanism).
Practically all basses have a perfectly cylindrical bore from the crook right to the bell socket without any expansion in the lower joint bore as you see in soprano clarinets.
The only basses I've seen with an expansion in the lower joint bore are B&H Imperial basses.
Bass clarinet bores are therefore even more German than German clarinets in that respect. Although true German bass clarinets have a narrower bore than Boehm system basses.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-21 03:39
Several people on this forum have noted that on many basses the notes just above the register vent changeover (clarion E, F, and F#) tend to be a little stuffy and resistant. Having owned a Selmer low C and a low Eb for several years this was my experience too. How do these notes respond on the Uebel?
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-12-23 13:29
My teacher recently said the same thing tucker wrote here. In fact, out of the other 2-3 Boehm basses made today, the Uebel is his favorite. According to him, it is NOT like the Prestige, despite being identical on the outside, more or less.
I still haven't tried one, sorry. He said it had an excellent overall response.
r small: There is no real solution to that, or so I've been told. In my case (the Leblanc I own is quite extreme), a really good repad helped, but as an technician told me, they found German basses, which have a much narrower bore, to be superior in that regard. They said it was ihnerent to the Boehm bore, that with these notes, you had some sort of turbulence. Can't exactly recall their description, but made sense to me. A good German bass indeed plays so much more effortlessly in that register.
Then again, if we're talking about the current Selmer bass, I'd rather say these notes are a bit hoarse, which is also an interesting characteristic and not necessarily a disadvantage.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-23 18:28
Hi Christian. Thanks for the interesting comments regarding the problematic mid-clarion notes on Boehm system bass clarinets. About twenty years ago I owned a Selmer low Eb (model 35) and a Selmer low C (model 37) and the mid-clarion problem was noticeable on both horns but was more pronounced on the low Eb horn, particularly on F. The low C was better in that range but still noticeable though not really a problem when the horn was sealing well and hitting on all of the cylinders. I ended up trading both horns in for other instruments.
About three years ago I tried out the Ridenour low Eb and was impressed by how well it blew in the mid-clarion. No stuffiness at all that I could tell in the short time that I had it. But I returned it after one day because the old style register key was torture on my left thumb. Recently I learned the Ridenour low C has a register key that is more ergonomic like the one on the Uebel and Buffet. So I plan on giving that a tryout after the New Year. I would be interested in trying out the Selmer Privilege too although I would be reluctant to fork over the 11 or 12 thou purchase price.
Post Edited (2019-12-23 18:30)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-12-23 20:33
"[T]hey found German basses, which have a much narrower bore, to be superior in that regard."
I've played on both an old Uebel Oehler bass and a modern S&S German bore Boehm bass, and found that to be correct. I really prefer the German bore for most aspects of the instrument, not just the mid clarion. Chris P mentioned that bass bores are all pretty much cylindrical, so there really isn't a "Boehm bore," just wider bores and narrower ones, though of course the different tone hole configuration on Boehm instruments can make notes respond differently from how they do on German system instruments. Really wish more makers had an option of a narrower bore for Boehm basses, that you could use German-style mouthpieces on.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-12-23 20:56
It was mentioned by another contributor who owns an Uebel Emperior bass that they let a Buffet Prestige player try it and they were hard pushed to find any noticeable differences in how they both played. But that was not long after the Emperior bass was new to the market and maybe they have made some changes since then.
The odd thing when I play-tested an Emperior bass, I couldn't play in tune with someone else playing a Buffet R13 Bb (soprano) at the same time - I don't know if I was playing sharp or if they were playing flat as I didn't have a tuner to hand. There was around a quarter tone difference between us, but I've never found my Prestige bass to be that far out of tune - maybe on the sharpish side with the tuning slide pushed all the way in. I have the tuning slide pulled out by around 3-4mm on my bass.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2019-12-23 21:57
Does the Emperior have three low D keys and one low Eb key (as the Prestige), or double low D and low Eb keys (as the Tosca)?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-12-24 02:01
Micke Isotalo wrote:
> Does the Emperior have three low D keys and one low Eb key (as
> the Prestige), or double low D and low Eb keys (as the Tosca)?
>
They have the three low D keys just like the Prestige.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-12-24 02:42
Well, the discussion keeps getting more interesting!
Re the Boehm vs German basses, probably not the first time I write this, but: Even though one would assume the German bore to be prefered in the (top end) amateur scene here in Germany, I found the opposite to be true. Most people I run into (one of them even performed Sacre du printemps, so I assume he knows what he's talking about) would prefer the Boehm bore for the stronger foundation and that extra "oomph", but then you can phone L&K about their new Reform Boehm Bass (20k€....) and they'll tell you how much they dislike Boehm, as it cannot cut through. German pros will still mostly opt for the German system bc, but then you have the symphonic band of the Bundeswehr (one of the very best!) and at least one of their bass players uses a Boehm system instrument with a Blashaus neck. So there's that....
Obviously, these are just examples based on my personal opinion. More importantly, if you want to be a low register guy and find out the prices of decent German system instruments, you'll get a little depressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAb8mPGS1O0
Check out this fancy 360 degrees recording! Pretty prominet low register there...nice! :D
dorjepismo, look at the remark above. L&K makes one, but neither the price, nor the low keys make it an option worth considering for a non full time bc player. Why everything lower then E has to be arranged in thumb keys is a mystery to me. You probably know about the S&S Reform Boehm bc too.
Here's hoping that Yamaha finally renew their bc, I too would like to see a "slimmer" one. The problem even with a Prestige is that compared to smaller bore instruments, they suck up your air like it's nothing, and seem to demand even greater support, which all in all over the course of an entire concert is way too fatiguing. At least with concert band stuff...
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Author: DougR
Date: 2019-12-24 03:31
Fascinating thread, and one of the more eye-opening facts in it ( to me anyway) is: "(Which is why you will never see an Emperior bass with a lower joint made of two pieces of wood grafted together with a grenadilla ring to try to camoflage the join, like some other low C basses.)"--Cocobolo Kid.
I had been looking at the scalloped rings around the lower joint of my Selmer bass and wondering what their utility was. Makes sense that they're actually a grenadilla ring fusing two billets together, although you can't discern a seam peering down the bore of the instrument. Whaddeya know, I guess.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-12-24 07:37
"L&K makes one, but neither the price, nor the low keys make it an option worth considering for a non full time bc player.' 20K for an L&K, 24 for an S&S, makes it sort of hard. I believe the S&S has four thumb keys in a square pattern, and two or three alternates for the pinkies. The action didn't have much give, and was very clean. A decent used Oehler probably costs about the same as a new Emperor now. Maybe there's a wine cave full of German billionaires somewhere . . .
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-12-24 18:05
Also you'll most likely find full Oehler system basses have a fully automatic triple vent speaker mechanism which frees up the upper register E to G# in comparison to the majority of pro level Boehm systems that only have two speaker vents where the upper vent is open from upper register E upwards (and the lower vent is open from throat Bb to upper register Eb). Student level basses (and many pro level Leblancs) only have the one vent for the entire upper register and the lower vent just for throat Bb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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