 The Doublers BBoard
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-09-17 00:02
My question concerns my 14-year old daughter, who has pain in her left hand and the joint of the middle finger on that hand. I'm hoping some of you have some experience/knowledge with this.
I believe that the pain in her hand has been brought on with the resumption of school 9 days ago, with all the writing and computer usage that's required. Of course practicing instruments will contribute to the usage. Right now she's unable to write or practice without a lot of pain. I do plan to take her to see a doctor with a hand specialty and have an appointment, but I'd also like to know what musicians' experiences have been.
She's been playing the alto sax for 5 1/2 years, the oboe for 5 years, and the bassoon seriously for 6 months. She takes her practicing seriously and attended music camps this summer for five weeks. At one camp she was playing about 9 hours of a sax a day, with no hand pain.
She is left-handed and writes likes a "lefty", curving her hand all the way inward. This evening she started writing with her right hand instead and, although slow, was able to write right away. She may switch permanently.
She's had pain in her left wrist before, every year when school resumes, but never before in her third finger joint.
The pain this week was triggered a few days ago after/during the 1st rehearsal of a new orchestra where she is playing bassoon. I thought perhaps that holding up the bassoon that long might have make a pre-existing condition worse, so I ordered a harnass for the bassoon.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-09-17 01:32
Double-reed instruments are notorious for causing hand pain. They simply are not ergonomically sound.
I would say that the resumption of school, along with the changes her body is going through at 14, will account for what she's experiencing. She is growing and the tendons and joints in her hands and arms have to regularly re-learn how they're supposed to move. Couple that with the discomfort brought on by the unsound design of the oboe and the large finger stretches of the bassoon, and you're likely to encounter difficulties.
The saxophone is probably one of the best ergonomically designed instruments when it comes to finger placement, so I doubt it is a culprit (as you noted, she can play it for long stretches with no problem).
I am currently having similar difficulties with the English horn. My right hand and wrist scream out whenever I try to finger a C#.
My advice would be to stop all playing as well as work she does with her hands (typing, writing) that causes pain until you hear from the hand specialist. The purpose of pain is to tell us that what we're doing at that moment is harming the body, and to stop doing it. If the hand specialist doesn't know anything about the world of musical instruments, ask them if they know someone who does. If they don't, go to your local instrument repair technician and tell them what's going on. My experience is that repair techs often have good ideas when it comes to adjusting instruments to the ergonomic needs of players.
Post Edited (2010-09-18 01:43)
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-09-17 01:47
Thanks Jaysne for the advice; it makes a lot of sense. My daughter really laughed at the part about asking the repair techs. She knows a few, and they probably do know a lot about causes of injuries.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2010-09-17 12:53
I would strongly recommend getting a Vonk leg rest for her bassoon. Miller Marketing carries them. I have a much easier time playing bassoon now - the weight of the instrument is borne by the right thigh, so the there is less stress on the left hand.
Not only that, but it makes for the fastest possible changes to and from bassoon in a doubling situation.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-09-17 14:04
Thanks very much Merlin for the message. My daughter will be pleased to learn another secret from a doubler.
I looked up the Vonk. There is a photo on the website for a bassoon stand that is on the floor. But what you are suggesting is a product that sits on the leg, right, and doesn't reach the floor? I don't think they have a photo for that.
i had suggested a bassoon stand, but my daughter says there wouldn't be room in rehearsals on the floor for it.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-09-18 01:49
Oboesax, a few years ago I wrote an article for the journal "Medical Problems of Performing Artists," about injuries suffered by musicians and what they did to cope with them. I interviewed several repair technicians, and all of them had stories to tell about people who had come to them who were unable to play their instruments due to injury. They asked the techs if there was any way to alter their instrument to make it possible to play it again. All the techs told me success stories about how indeed were able to figure out what to do to overcome a disability.
The impression I got is that not only do many repair techs care about instruments, they also care deeply about the players, and they enjoy figuring out ways to solve all kinds of problems. So I think they would also be able to figure out how to possible alter your daughter's instruments--probably ever so slightly--to make them playable without pain.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2010-09-18 12:40
There's no pic on Miller marketings site, just the item listing and price. Maarten Vonk's own site has a PDF with the installation instructions.Jaysne wrote:
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-09-19 13:40
Thank you for the advice. Merlin, I did call the Miller number, and spoke to him for a while about the different bassoon products. He asked about her size and weight and recommended looking at what a well-known bassoonist my daughter's size uses (she uses a harnass). He recommended starting with a cup strap to see if that helped as my daughter's bassoon came with a hook strap. I already bought a bassoon harnass last week. So when my daughter feels well enough to start playing again she'll start out with these new products and see how they feel.
I do feel that her hand pain is connected with writing in school. She has started writing with the other hand (right) to alleviate stress from writing with the left hand. Although she's only played the bassoon for 6 months, she has practiced a number of hours in a row before on it and not had problems. She is actually playing less now that school has started (and she hasn't played at all now for four days).
On another note, my daughter was given the bass oboe part in The Planets in her youth orchestra yesterday. While she's thrilled about it, I'm wondering what additional finger-stretching challenges that will bring. Hopefully the stress will come in the right hand, not the left.
Post Edited (2010-09-19 14:34)
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2010-09-19 16:30
It seems odd to me that the left hand is getting stressed from playing since it is not the weight bearing hand - although I recognise she could be placing stress on that hand while she plays. If you have one in your area, you might consider going to see a qualified Alexander Technique practitioner, many are trained with a specialty in musicians.
Can she type? If writing is causing that much pain I would think they would let her take notes on a laptop even if it is not usually allowed. Something to consider.
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-09-19 16:50
Oboeidaho, this is what I've been wondering. I don't believe that playing the oboe has caused this. Playing the bassoon last week did trigger the pain (and the left hand does bear the weight with bassoon) but this has been building up. Her third finger bothers her most, starting at the joint and going up the arm.
It could also be all the saxophone playing she does. She says she uses her second and third fingers a lot on sax.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-09-19 21:32
I doubt it's the sax. As I said before, the keys on the sax are well designed to fit the differing lengths of the fingers. In essence the instrument has been adjusted to fit our hands, whereas our hands have to adjust to fit the keys of the other instruments.
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-10-23 15:41
To follow up on my post, my daughter's hand is better. All pain disappeared a week ago, after 5 weeks of pretty regular pain. I believe it was a combination of her age and her hand still growing, with the sudden requirement of lots of handwriting and typing in school. Since she practices/plays her instruments about 3-6 hours a day, that's where she felt it most. She backed off the number of hours she played for a few weeks, temporarily stopped playing the bassoon, and used her right hand mainly for school assignments.
What "fixed" her hand was a visit to a great chiropractor, who is normally known for working with a professional soccer team. He stretched her hand out for 45 minutes, and showed her the hand stretches which he instructed her to do 4 times a day. Plus, she started swimming about 3 times a week for about 1 mile each time, and resumed doing 20-50 pushups daily. The visit to the local orthopedic who is a "hand specialist" was a waste of time, as he did nothing for her and didn't even suggest any stretches.
All of you who posted had a good point and I considered each comment. We are getting some extensions for the left hand put on her English horn; it doesn't cost much. The repair tech plays English horn and oboe and was very helpful. My daughter has been trying out various accessories for the bassoon, and it looks like a harness plus a bassoon hanger might work out. Her teacher adjusted how she holds the bassoon and now she holds the bassoon more vertically than she did before. I've looked into getting a Vonk bassoon stand but they are out of stock at the moment.
This week we finally have an appointment in a musician's clinic. We'll see if they have anything to add.
Again, thank you for the thoughful comments. This forum is very useful indeed.
Update 11/14/10: We've determined that my daughter's hand pain is caused by handwriting in school, not musical instruments. Two weeks after she switched to writing with the right hand, she began to feel pain in her right hand as well. She's required to do 4-8 hours of homework a night, which is the problem.
Post Edited (2010-11-14 14:33)
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