 The Doublers BBoard
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Author: Jonny M
Date: 2010-06-30 17:54
Hello friends,
I'm in the process of doing the arrangement/orchestration for a musical. I've not worked in this genre before, so am finding it quite a learning curve with all the limitations I'm not used to, from writing generally for full orchestra.
I have learned that the wind sections in musicals are written in terms of "Reed Books" where each player is assigned either as Reed 1 or Reed 2 and will swap their instruments about as appropriate.
My question is, when notating the score (in particular the 'full' or 'conductor' score), would I simply write "Reed 1" and "Reed 2" rather than instrument names, so all of the Reed 1 player's parts are on the same stave and in the same place in the score, and then indicate through instrument changes in text above the staff which instrument it is at the time (allowing plenty of time to swap)? Or, do I still list it as normal, such as Flute, Bb Clarinet, Oboe, Bassoon etc down the page?
I'm guessing for each Reed Book itself, I would simply write the wind parts out as you would expect to see them normally in a traditional orchestra score, I.e. listing all the instruments on separate staves?
Your help is greatly appreciated,
Jonny
Heaven and Mirth (HaM) Music.
www.HaM-Music.com
info@HaM-Muaic.com
07746260092
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-06-30 21:31
On the score you'd have all the reed parts (for each individual player) on a separate stave, so Reed 1 will have one stave and all the doublings in that part will be on that one stave with each instrument change labelled as it happens.
Don't be too ambitious with your doublings in that you don't have a bassoon doubling oboe and flute - some players may be able to do this, but they're few and far between. If you can have a separate oboe/cor anglais part and separate bassoon part, that will make things easier when it comes to booking players as most single reed players don't often play double reeds and similarly some double reed players won't often play flute, clarinet or saxes (yes there are some that do, but it's a rarity).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jonny M
Date: 2010-06-30 22:32
Thanks Chris.
No mixing single and double-reeds with the same player? Eek, I only have 3 players and the first number uses an oboe and bassoon at the same time. This would mean that unless I rearrange the piece, I can only ever have 1 single-reed instrument playing at a time during the show, as 2 of the players would be double-reeders.
Maybe I'm going to have to push for a 4th...
Is there any commonplace doubling in terms of double-reeders usually able to play a single reed (but maybe not the other way around?) The players will be from amateur orchestras, student orchestras or just good musicians, as it's an amateur production.
Thanks again! (Now panicking.)
Heaven and Mirth (HaM) Music.
www.HaM-Music.com
info@HaM-Muaic.com
07746260092
Post Edited (2010-07-01 01:46)
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Author: Jonny M
Date: 2010-07-01 02:06
I don't know if I misinterpreted there...
Is the determining factor for what a player can double with:
1) Whether the instrument is a double or single reed (e.g. double and single reeds don't mix), or
2) Their 'primary' instrument. So, irrespective of single/double reeds, it's common for someone who plays one instrument to play a particular other. For example, someone who plays an oboe may also play a clarinet, but wouldn't usually play a flute, maybe because of (possibly) similar technique involved etc. (Of course, that was purely for illustrative purposes, so don't gasp if I've unwittingly just paired a giant no no!)
Hope that makes sense. Sorry if these are very basic/silly questions. I'm used to writing where people play their specialised instrument only and no doubling is required, with the exception of flute/piccolo and oboe/cor anglais etc.
Thanks again!
Jonny
Heaven and Mirth (HaM) Music.
www.HaM-Music.com
info@HaM-Muaic.com
07746260092
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2010-07-01 03:51
Jonny, you'd do well to have a look at the list of woodwind doubling books on Bret Pimentel's site. That will give you an idea of the typical doublings encountered in show books.
Now, as to your immediate concern. Since you're dealing with an amateur production, it's usually best to be modest in the doubling requirements UNLESS you source the players beforehand and write to their specific abilities.
As for typical WW doubling in shows:
Reed 1 frequently plays lead alto sax, clarinet and is also the principal flute/picc book
Reed 2 will often play alto sax, flute and is often the principal clarinet soloist
Reed 3 is often the oboe/EH player, doubling clarinet and tenor sax. Flute is occasionally seen here too.
Reed 4 is the bari/bass clarinet/bassoon position, with frequent Bb clarinet and flute thrown in as well.
If I was writing for 3 woodwind players and using double reeds, I'd probably do something like:
Reed 1 - flute/clarinet/alto sax
Reed 2 - oboe/clarinet/tenor sax
Reed 3 - bassoon/bass clarinet/clarinet/bari sax
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-07-01 11:53
Since you are looking at an amateur production, you could also put the oboe and bassoon on the same part. There are oboe players who also pick up the bassoon and can play both well even in high school.. In general, it is easier for an oboe player to play the bassoon than the flute, for example.
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Author: rcnelson
Date: 2010-07-01 12:40
A great reference is http://www.bretpimentel.com/woodwinds/doubling/shows/. You can see the various combinations of instruments used in hundreds of shows.
Ron
Selmer Mark VI tenor (1957), Selmer Mark VII alto (1975)
Buescher True Tone soprano (1924), Selmer CL210 Bb Clarinet, Gemeinhardt 3SHB Flute, Pearl PFP105 Piccolo
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-07-01 14:10
What Merlin stated is very practical advice. However, if your show does not inclued a saxophone section, the same basic principals apply. (ie lead flute/picc is in reed 1, lead clarinet is in reed 2, etc. Generally speaking, unless there is a saxophone section, the most serious doubling an oboe player will do is the cor. Maybe the flute. Lead clarinet is sometimes called upon to play flute as well, in addition to some kind of auxiliary clarinet. Sometimes reed 1 will also include clarinet for clarinet duo/trio sections. It just all depends on how you want the music to sound. Figuring out the doubling is no good unless you have a clear idea of what instruments you want playing, and when you want them playing. Hope that was helpful. Now, you say you have two separate double reeds playing in the opening number. Generally, if there are two double reed players, there are at least two other reed players. So I would double oboe and bassoon in the same book, or I would include another reed book for a single reed player. I think the latter is more practical, as it is not commonplace to find an oboe/bassoon player.
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Author: Jonny M
Date: 2010-07-01 17:21
Thanks for your help, guys. I've been looking through that site - very useful resource. Possibly going to make it really simple now and just write flute/piccolo, oboe and clarinet and forget about the bassoon, as I know I can definitely already cover those 3 positions. I don't think these players double though. Bye bye bassoons I guess. Poor bassoons. I like bassoons. They're cool. Possibly my favourite wind. Maybe I'll make up for it with a bassoon concerto when I'm done...
Heaven and Mirth (HaM) Music.
www.HaM-Music.com
info@HaM-Muaic.com
07746260092
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-07-01 22:05
You could use a bari sax or bass clarinet as a substitute for bassoon but still keeping bassoon in mind (you could always write on the part 'Quasi bassoon' to make the bari/bass clarinet player play it in a bassoon-like manner in that particular section!).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2010-07-02 01:56
I think you are wise to make non-doubling (outside families, ie flute/picc, ob/eh) parts for an amateur pit orchestra. You have a hard enough time finding people to play, much less double with skill. It can be a lot of fun to double, but I've heard some pretty nasty attempts in amateur groups. The other thing is that MANY community theater groups will hire whoever is available, and if they don't play the right doubles they just transpose the part or play it on keyboard. If you hope to have your musical performed close to your vision (and you are writing for non-professional groups) I'd say keeping it simple is the best way. Good luck!
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Author: Jonny M
Date: 2010-07-02 03:13
Yeah, sometimes I can be a bit too ambitious in terms of who I'm writing for :o). I have managed to find people over the last 24 hours who have performance degrees/MAs in performance on various winds, so it looks like I may actually be able to have a bit more diversity after all. And through my church I found a bassoonist who also happens to be able to play a few other winds. And piano. So panic is indeed over!
Heaven and Mirth (HaM) Music.
www.HaM-Music.com
info@HaM-Muaic.com
07746260092
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