 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-07-28 17:28
Could anyone share tips on playing English horn for the first time? I'm a "serious amateur" oboist playing for 15+ years but have never tried English horn and would like to. I don't have a teacher anymore, so I'll probably rent from a music store at first. My main question is about the learning curve. Should I expect to sound like a wounded duck for a while, or is the reed and embouchure similar enough to sound decent? Are there any suggestions about reeds? On an oboe I can tell if the reed needs to be adjusted, but on an English horn I won't know if the poor sound is due to my inexperience or due to a poor quality reed. Thanks for any help!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-28 18:46
You should take to the cor like a duck to water but not sound like one if you already have 15+ years of oboe playing on the clock. Cors have much lower breath resistance compared to oboes so you'll find the instrument generally much easier and reeds will last for ages.
Don't use a reed that's too hard otherwise you may have resistance problems and the lower register left hand notes can be especially stuffy, so use reeds that are as free blowing as possible but will still give you a full strong sound high up in the 2nd register which is a weak register on cors.
The embouchure can be loosened off or you can experiment with different embouchures to shape the tone to what you want.
I will recommend you get the book 'The Art of Cor Anglais' by Geoffrey Browne (published by Emerson) as that has a lot of the large orchestral cor solos with essays about each and how to approach them, typical problems, special fingerings and also sections on reeds and other playing tips which are invaluable to anyone playing cor.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-07-28 19:00
Super, thank you. (And I appreciate the witty comment about the duck!) I've found a few guide pages online about transferring from oboe to EH, but they're mostly written in a pedantic manner targeted at young people. "Remember to swab your instrument!" It is good to hear from real people here. I will also check out the book you recommended. Thanks.
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Author: oboi
Date: 2014-07-29 06:22
Learning how to blow through one will be trivial if you can play the oboe well. That is, if you have a good embouchure already, you've got most of the work done. Fingering is almost 100% the same. I just have to remember to give it more air support, and by virtue of its size, it is a bit unwieldly for me.... most of the problems I've had over the past few years has simply been holding and reaching the keys in an ergonomic fashion. I still sometimes fight with dynamic range and the upper register (being oboe-minded), but I have to remember it's an EH and to not expect it to have the same tendencies as an oboe. I frequently practice my oboe repertoire with the horn no problem (just a bit slower).
Adjusting reeds should be no problem. If you know how to make oboe reeds, the EH ones should be straightforward. You can scrape on them like mad and they're still playable. They last a very long time. Reed wire, if you decide to use it on your reeds, with be a perplexing new dimension to adjusting reeds.
Ramblings from a very serious amateur.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-07-29 13:15
See Martin Schuring's great advice.
English Horn usually requires some sort of support in addition to your thumb - it is pretty heavy. Look into all the options (neck-band, FHred or BHob, a stand-hook or leg hook), and don't forget to get a good instrument-stand so that you can rest your hands as often as possible. The plastic slot-together ones work, but they're pretty fragile.
Post Edited (2014-07-29 13:26)
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2014-07-30 05:28
I had the great good luck to study oboe and english horn with the english horn player, Dick White, with the Natl Symphony doing my graduate studies.
He emphasized the essential difference between oboe and ehorn and made ehorn the leader in the progression.
Reeds are a little less finished and you can learn a lot from the David Weber reed makers manual about that.
Dick taught me that each horn has a characteristic couple of notes that help you hone in on the right reed thing.
In my case, the 2nd octave f# and g are the key notes. When they are right on, all else is good to go.
Reeds might be shorter than you'd expect but 52 - 54 mm is my usual range these days.
Once the f# and g are right on with a relaxed embouchure, all other things seem to work well.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-08-03 00:54
Any comments on how to improve the g2 and g#2 stability would be appreciated. The only way I've found to make them stable is to add right hand fingers. They are unstable because the lower part of the EH acts like a broadly tuned resonator, trying to pull them off of their desired resonance frequency.
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Author: newedit617
Date: 2014-08-07 23:23
I tried an English horn for the first time today and it was a good experience! The EH player in the nearest symphony was willing to give me an introductory lesson with his EH and reed. The sound felt more muffled compared to the oboe. I was eventually able to get decently rich tone and projection with the Etoile bocal. High notes tended to be flat, but they came out easily-- it never felt like the resistance I have when playing the upper register of the oboe. Thanks to everyone for your guidance and encouragement here.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-07 23:39
What you may find when playing oboe pieces and studies on cor (as written), they're somehow easier than when played on oboe. It could be psychological, but I find for whatever reason they seem to be much easier. Maybe the lower breath resistance on cor makes things more relaxed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2014-08-08 00:25
I am also a serious hobby oboe player that wants to learn English horn.
First thing I noticed is that is almost unfair how much less resistance there is on an English horn. I tried a loaner EH last year and my arms are almost too short. After ten or fifteen minutes my right hand wrist is incredibly sore! Even with a good neck strap.
I found that hanging the EH to my right side OR crossing my feet and resting the bell on my legs helps tremendously. But who knows what that does to the sound.
I did not get too much into the English horn yet because the one I was playing on needed an overhaul.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-08-08 14:09
That's one of the biggest problems with playing cor - the physical length of the thing, so a lot of players will have trouble with reaching the RH keywork due to the stretch.
To my knowledge, there aren't any crooks made with a more acute angle or an S bend in them to raise the instrument up higher to reduce the stretch.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oboi
Date: 2014-08-09 06:43
I think, like reedmaking, you just have to reach that top of the hill and then it will plateau. Took me a few years to be relatively comfortable holding it. Before then, it was fairly painful. Now I can play it for an extended amount of time (provided I don't have too many Eb's and C#'s).
I initially, having borrowed a huge Moennig, would hold it like a saxophone. I will sometimes when I can't use the FHRED, have it between my feet. I can't really play standing up even with a strap. If you use a FHRED/BHOB stand, a computer mousepad works great for chairs that slip. Put the pad bottom side up on your chair and the horn will stay secure.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2014-08-09 22:05
Thanks for the tip about using an inverted mousepad with the fhred. I have one for EH, but most hard chairs (which means, just about all of them that one encounters in orchestra situations) let it slip so much that it is more of a nuisance than a help. I will try the mouse pad, because I have come to the point of needing something, especially when playing the beast for more than a minute or two.
Susan
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Author: Loree BF51
Date: 2014-08-13 22:17
Concerning the quality of the bocal (with emphasis on the first syllable, not the second), it is generally felt that, if the pitch goes flat when decrescendoing on the middle C (3rd space), then that bocal is bad.
Cane shaped on a Brannen shaper (copied from my Thorstenberg copy, but slightly narrower), is very good. I used a Laubin #2 bocal which I shortened slightly to play in tune on an older Loree and it did not dip on the 3rd space C.
I also studied with two, former English Horn players in the CSO, as well as playing EH in concert in Frank symphony, Pines-Resphigi(?). etc. Regards.
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2014-08-14 00:05
This fairly recent pub. is by a lady I just met doing summer concert stuff.
http://www.trevcomusicpublishing.com/shopping-cart?page=shop.product_details&product_id=2051&flypage=flypage.pbv.v1.tpl&pop=0
I looked through it in reh. Monday night and it seems to offer the sort of guidance you are looking for.
-Craig Matovich
Post Edited (2014-08-15 04:15)
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