 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-09 16:44
I think it's polycarbonate - I've got an alto sax reed of theirs (a 2.5 which felt more like a 3.5) and it was easy to soften it by scraping with a sharp scalpel blade and sanding down smooth with 800 grit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2014-07-09 17:58
I use them exclusively when playing broadway pits, especially on larger reed instruments. When teaching, all of my bass clarinets and large saxes (and those b flat clarinets studying privately who have a strong embouchure) use them to eliminate "chirps" in the sound.
SR
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-09 18:07
I hope cor anglais and oboe d'amore reeds are in the pipeline if their synthetic oboe reeds prove to be a success.
If so, gone will be the days of water pots and carrying all manner of reed tools and dozens of spare reeds around only to lose things along the way will be gone.
I just want an easy life and oboe reeds aren't exactly compliant with that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JohnW
Date: 2014-07-09 20:47
Aww, if it was easy, then anybody could do it!
JohnW
amateur adult beginner, oboe and cor
www.OboeHobo.com
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-07-10 04:25
Perhaps you need a "reed forgiving" instrument like the one Hartman has...
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2014-07-10 06:03
JRC has a good point. How many of us, given only the choice of a "European" style synthetic reed (of sufficient quality), would opt for the switch and then search for an oboe that made it sound more "American?" Just curious.
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2014-07-10 09:50
Well, Coop, I'm sorry to skirt your question on my view of the quintessential American sound, as I feel there are as many definitions of that as there are American oboists, but instead want to restate my query:
If you had the option of buying a "forever" reed that performs well in other respects, but does not meet your current expectations with regard to timbre, and is, therefore, not compatible with your presently owned instrument(s) in producing a sound that you could call "your own," would you learn to play said reed anyway and look for an oboe that would allow it to sound more like what you are accustomed to, in an effort to never have to make reeds again?
*Bonus points if your answer is in the form of an even longer single run-on sentence.
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-07-10 10:51
hold on hold on .. even Legere don't claim that their reeds are forever and reports from saxophonists put life-expectancy at between 2 and 12 months (a quick random sampling - not accurate, but I assume in the ballpark) and since Sax reeds are MUCH thicker than oboe reeds at the tip we can expect oboe reeds to be far more fragile and to have a shorter average life-span than this don't you think? the main advantages of a reed like this are probably immediate readiness to play, and consistency of performance so I don't expect them to be particularly cost-saving to someone who already owns his own reedmaking equipment and assuming that the legere life-span is between 5x and 10x of a regular reed, what will be the price-point? if I estimate my home-made reeds cost me between 3 and 4 dollars each on average then if these reeds are priced more than 40 USD, it just won't be worth it.
That said, I'll probably buy one just to see what the hullabaloo is about
(sorry - couldn't resist the run-on sentence challenge!)
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Author: KJC
Date: 2014-07-10 16:33
Can anyone guess or does anyone know how much one of these reeds will cost?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-10 16:36
I'm hazarding a guess they'll probably be around the £90-120 or thereabouts mark considering the bassoon ones are around £150+.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2014-07-10 17:23
Chris P wrote:
> I think it's polycarbonate - I've got an alto sax reed of
> theirs (a 2.5 which felt more like a 3.5) and it was easy to
> soften it by scraping with a sharp scalpel blade and sanding
> down smooth with 800 grit.
>
It's polypropylene.
http://www.legere.com/ourreeds/why-do-they-work/materials
Post Edited (2014-07-10 17:24)
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Author: KJC
Date: 2014-07-10 19:04
That's about $170 or so for one reed. If it lasts at least six months and is really well designed, it might be worth buying. Otherwise, making your own or buying your own professionally made traditional cane reeds would be less expensive (at least for me). I'll wait for more reviews.
-KJC
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2014-07-10 20:53
By "forever reed," I am referring more to the infinite repeatability aspect, and not so much the life span of an individual reed. Still, speaking in terms of months, rather than hours, of playability for each reed is an intoxicating prospect.
I make, on average, two reeds a day for myself (more when students/colleagues are in need), spending at least half of my "practice time" scraping the new reeds and prepping cane for the next day/week. I play only on the best reed in my 12-reed case, which is never more than a week old. Usually the best reed is one I made the day before, and will give me (at best) 5-7 hours of acceptable playability (i.e. 1-2 days) before it gets bumped down the row. Reeds that do not pass a simple "crow test," at the beginning of the day, are sent to the reed desk for re-assimilation. I could go into much more detail, but who really cares?
Wouldn't it be nicer to say something closer to:
I buy 3-4 identical reeds a year, and rotate between them. I practice A LOT! I always sound great, and am relatively unaffected by changes in temperature and humidity. If a reed breaks or malfunctions during a concert, no one (including myself) will notice the change when I switch to a back-up reed.
Know what I'm saying, peeps?
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-07-10 22:40
Would a synthetic reed affected by seasons?
I do have summer reeds and winter reeds. I was wondering...
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2014-07-11 00:49
Chris, I played in two orchestras this year where the principal bassoon played these synthetics.
In the better orchestra with the slightly better bassoonist, she got such a great sound even the conductor ( fomer univ. bassoon instr.) did not notice.
Sound was big, projection good, hall filled with 1100 in attendance and her sound carried fine and dandy.
Aside form the interest in things looking so differently, I wonder why they don't add some color to the mix?
I'd probably be interested in trying a couple, but most interested in english horn if they manage to do that.
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2014-07-11 05:09
A bassoonist acquaintance of mine uses the Legere reeds and he reported they seemed kind of slippery, as in if you produce a lot of saliva blowouts might be a problem. But he sounds good either way, none of us can tell the difference, synthetic reed or not.
I'm willing to try them for sure! No rushing to rehearsal to make your oboe "nest" of reed stuff. Just plug and play. No need to worry about spilling your little cup of water. I have so much oboe stuff it's not funny sometimes but I'm prepared for nearly every little thing.
I hope they're not too expensive. As a non professional I already spend way more than I should on my "little" oboe hobby.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-11 09:07
In the UK the bassoon reed retails at £135.00 (lowest price I've seen is around £115) which typically is way more than the $120 so again we're being ripped off here in the UK. They have come down as they were around the £150 mark last time I looked.
I hope the oboe one is way under that - I'll probably look into buying overseas instead of on home turf. If they are consistent in strength and playability so three can be used on rotation with no problem, then that should last anyone with the means of buying them for ages (accidental damage aside).
Interesting they're made from polypropylene as the sax one I've got has a blueish tinge to it like polycarbonate - not that I've got a problem with that so long as it works. The sax one does feel warm after playing for a while, but it doesn't irritate my lower lip like some cane reeds do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2014-07-12 00:46
I agree with Jonathan. Being the occasional doubler and in my classroom always having a sax and clarinet ready to go for teaching purposes, I don't think they would even be investing in making Legere double reeds if they didn't think they could sell them to a decent number of professionals. Is a student really going to pay that much for a synthetic reed?
When they first came out for single reeds there was a tin of skepticism until people tried them. Now they are common place and some professionals even play on them. They are quite good. I do think they will be worth a try. And, I can buy 2 of three and have them last 6 months (by rotating) and not spend that amount of time making reeds only to have about 40 percent actually work then of course I will use them.
Cane quality as I think we will all agree is getting so inconsistent that we are all wasting a lot of money (climate change perhaps?). If they play well, sound good for mynstyle and horn, then damn right I. Going to try and use them.
Remember how many would play on nothing short of Loree fir so many years. There was talk that there were other great horns coming online....people finally gave them a try and now we are lucky to have so many different brands being played professionally and many choices. We inherently don't like change or,things that may "rock our world" but sometimes the come along and every new idea is worth a shot.
My .02 cents.
Shawn
Professor of Oboe - Youngstown State University
Howland Local Schools - MS Dir. Of Bands/HS Asst. Dir (Marching, Symphonic)
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Author: Norm L
Date: 2014-07-14 16:04
Does anyone know how they're manufactured? This looks like a job for 3D printing!
I do hope they have them ready for IDRS next month. The bassoonists were having a blast last year.
Norm L
Post Edited (2014-07-14 22:45)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-14 17:09
I think they're moulded in two halves, the scrape is then CNC milled and then both halves are bonded together. I really don't know for certain.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2014-07-15 00:18
I wonder if it is possible to scrape and clip the material with a reed knife, as you would real cane. If that were the case, they could sell "blanks" that we could finish ourselves (probably at a lower price-point than a finished reed).
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: oboeandy
Date: 2014-07-15 07:00
Jonathan, this warning comes from the page about bassoon reeds on the Legere website:
"Do not try to work the blades with your knife. You will only dull your knife."
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2014-07-17 09:15
You're right Andy, I see that now. They also, however, suggest reaming and clipping as viable adjustment options. I wonder if sandpaper or files might prove valuable with an oboe version, if not a reed knife?
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-07-17 12:34
At (say) 120 USD a pop, I would not expect to have to adjust it with a knife. Coop's friend adjusts her Legere bassoon reed with hot water - this may be the best way. We'll have to wait for them to hit the shelves.
J.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-17 15:09
Perhaps they're suggesting you shouldn't use your expensive reed knife on them to preserve it and would rather you use much cheaper and disposable scalpel blades or craft knives which work better on plastic. They can be sanded but still use a plaque to support the blades and one that doesn't open up the sides. A plastic or wooden plaque can easily be shaped to fit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-07-17 15:54
There is some danger in forcing a plaque into the sealed reed, especially if it is not quite narrow enough. Also, one of the principal adjustments (thinning the corners) can't really be done if you can't go off the edge and onto the plaque.
Also; how do you estimate thickness of something that is transparent?
J.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-07-17 16:48
Scrape and try, scrape and try. Unless you have a thickness gauge.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2014-07-19 07:10
I remember hearing that one of the problems with replacing cane with plastic was that cane was anisotropic--it's stiffness is different in the direction of the grain rather than across it. That's why early attempts to just do a simple replacement never worked very well.
I am totally ignorant as to what Legére is doing, but if they are getting good results, I suspect that they are either (1) making a anisotropic composite, perhaps by imbedding something like oriented glass fiber into the reed, or (2) readjusting the whole reed profile so substantially as to compensate for the isotropic nature of conventional polypropylene.
The fact that they say you will only dull your knife by trying to make adjustments may be consistent with either of these possibilities, especially the first! Polypropylene on it's own should be less wearing on knife steel than cane--cane contains silica, whereas polypropylene is just hydrocarbons. But if they have glass fiber or any other harder fiber in a composite, these fibers may be responsible for knife wear.
Saying "it will just dull your knife" may also be true if they have adjusted the reed profile so much that any efforts on your part to adjust it in conventional ways will have no benefit. In this case, the dulling of the knife is not the point of the statement, but the lack of beneficial results.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2014-08-08 20:54
I tried the Legere reed at the IDRS conference the other day with Christoph Hartmanns' encouragement.
The reed has a European short scrape.
I am a long scrape American player.
So my comments must be taken in that context.
The reed was too resistant for my style of playing.
The tonal quality was not bad at all.
Mr. Hartmann explained for his style of playing the reed was not resistant at all~!
He mentioned that an American scrape version is in the works.
From his point of view the Legere reed is one more tool to be used.
For example, why practice on your good concert reeds? Also you always a have a suitable backup if you have a reed problem.
Think about it - if you travel and have concerts in many different environments/climates the Legere reed is always there and dependable.
Yes, you sure can a play a concert with it and sound professional.
Mark
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2014-08-09 23:50
I played one at the IDRS yesterday. Very open, quite wild, needs a LOT of embouchure control. Although this was a prototype, they are projected at more than $100 each. And the sound was not particularly rich. I wouldn't buy one, but I can see a pit doubler being attracted to it.
That said, Christoff Hartmann sounded just fine on it, so perhaps my opinion would be different if I hasd some time on it...Chris P wrote:
> FINALLY!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWOjFVka5Js
>
> Fingers crossed this is the answer!
>
>
> Post Edited (2014-07-09 14:54)
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: Norm L
Date: 2014-08-10 22:26
I tried the same reed as Mark while he and Hartmann were talking (Hi fellow flash mobber!). I play short scrape, and I also found it resistant. Not necessarily hard, but requiring more air than I'm used to, without the corresponding volume output.
But, Hartmann (great guy!) did stress giving it at least ten minutes to adjust to the feeling. I took a few minutes, and it did get a bit easier. The trick for me was to relax my embouchure and air (which I should probably do anyway!).
Also, he had about a dozen reeds in his case, some (if not all) individually hand scraped post-production, and we just tried that one example, so one's mileage may vary.
I'm certainly game to try one. I think he said they're shooting for a release date of early 2015.
Norm L
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