 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-02-05 16:38
I have just started a student who is a strong flute player and played bassoon throughout high school. She has realised it is the oboe she really wanted to play, and she is progressing extremely quickly. She is playing on my old Yamaha 211 at the moment, and she is a week or two from outgrowing it. She is a student, so budget is a consideration, and there is no second hand oboe market where we live. So it needs to be via internet.
My current recommendation is a Hans Kreul which looks to be in good condition, has been serviced and is available from a Melbourne music store, for $2500 ($US2100 ish). No cracks. I have previously sold my old Cabart through them and they were great. The only things it is missing is a split D ring and 3rd octave.
We are also looking at a Loree, DGxx. I know nothing about various ages and stages of Lorees, so advice on this one would be great. With shipping, it will wind up being about the same price. It is located in the US and there is no guarantee it will be serviced, etc. No cracks. No 3rd octave. She wouldn't get to play before purchase (as will be the case with anything international).
For similar money, or a little less, we can also get a Fox 330 or a Yamaha 411. I just find it hard to recommend a Yamaha when for a couple of hundred dollars extra, she could be playing on an older professional oboe. I feel as though used Foxes are overpriced at the moment.
She wants to spend as close to $2500 ($US2100) as possible, which is not a lot, but she is going to be a community musician who plays for fun. If anyone knows of anything else comparable, happy to take recommendations.
Thanks,
Rachel
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-02-05 21:38
Old Kreul is generally good. Split D is not really critical. Just think about when it is functional in your play. ...rarely... even then, not a real necessity. 3rd octave key is also a luxury. There are many professional players preferring no 3rd octave key. Depending on how it plays, $2,500 is a good deal. Make sure to make it in a good repair even you have to spend $500 extra. I mean really really in good repair and make sure it is in tune at 440. Some old instruments are tuned other than 440. If it is very very very old, the tuning could go out of whack.
That is nickel's worth of opinion.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-02-06 07:29
That was my thoughts, JRC. The Kreul has been overhauled and will come with a 3 month repair warranty.
I use my split D for slurring to high D only. This Kreul has a vent in the key, but no split, so in theory, it would still function the same way in that circumstance.
I am a dedicated 3rd octave user as well, so we would just need to find the best fingerings for those high notes on that instrument.
Judging by the case, it has an old canvas case cover...I'm thinking 60s or 70s? I can't find a serial number list, but I am thinking at that age, tuning shouldn't be too much of an issue, but I guess you never know until you try.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2014-02-08 11:36
Oboe maker Tom Hiniker is fond of saying "A 3rd octave key should be absolutely un-necessary on a well crafted oboe."
Oboes.us
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-02-08 19:51
Peter, I am glad you weighed in! Do you think the Kreul would be a good choice for this student? Do you know how I could find out the age? I have the serial number, but haven't yet found a list.
Lack of 3rd octave is definitely not a deal breaker for me, especially looking in this price range. As a teacher, my philosophy has always been one of teaching the 'standard' and 'long' fingerings of any notes on any instrument (and spending a lot of time with them) before any shortcuts or alternatives.
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Author: Quix
Date: 2014-02-08 22:59
FWIW I own a Kreul student model oboe serial #40010, made in about 1977. Loree DG is going to be mid 1970s, I think.
The Kreul still plays great, by the way :-).
Physics Dave
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-02-09 13:38
This Kreul is #61xxx, so I wonder then if that would put it in the early 80s? I think I put the Loree at 1974, according to a couple of lists.
Thanks for vouching for the Kreul, Dave!
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2014-02-10 05:24
I love Kreul oboes (and the "stencil" Kreul oboes such as Kreul/Mirafone, Kreul/Gordet, Kreul/Lucerne. Kreul/Mueller, and others).
Although almost all of the Kreul oboes without full professional model key-work (to wit: at minimum left F, F resonance, split ring D, articulated C#, Ab-Bb trill, G#-A trill), will play as well as the professional model instruments (even the most basic "student" oboe), I highly recommend that even a beginner have the benefit of having all of the professional key-work from the start if at all possible. I can do without a 3rd octave key and low Bb resonance on the bell, though an oboe ideally should have all the rest of the "professional key-work."
Kreul oboes were of two distinct types:
"Heavy weight" (thick wall) c. 90%+ of Kreul/Gordet and Kreul/Lucerne
oboes will be of this type. Still has the "darkest" sound of any oboe extant I know of.
"Standard weight" (medium wall) c. 90% of Kreul/Mirafone oboes will be of this type. Still a fairly "dark" sound, though not "hopelessly dark." You can play the Poulenc "Sextour" convincingly on the "standard weight" Kreul.
The Kreul "standard weight" is one of my favorite oboes in the realm of 1970s-1990s instruments.
Another thought about Kreul oboes- often swapping out the original bell for a Covey bell will made a great improvement in the low B and Bb...
Oboes.us
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-02-10 09:21
Peter, this Kreul has 'Hans Kreul Tubingen' on the bell (and all other joints). Would you happen to know which type it is likely to be?
The only things it appears to be missing are the 3rd octave and a split D (although has a vent on the key like some student models). It has F resonance, Bb resonance, left F, B-C# link, Ab/Bb trill, G#/A trill. It seems like very good value for a solid instrument to me.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2014-02-10 13:09
Most all of the Kreul oboes simply marked "Hans Kreul, Tubingen"
will be the "standard weight" (medium wall) model.
And I can not recall a "heavy weight" Kreul model oboe ever having less that the full "Buck Rogers" complement of professional model key-work.
The Kreul oboe is (in my estimation) about the most "forgiving" oboe I know of.
Kreul oboes seem to "lock in" on pitch centers. Difficult to play "bad note" on a Kreul oboe. And easy to make reeds for compared to just about any other make of oboe.
Still, I very much like having split ring D. However, some oboes without split ring D
(such as some of the Loree-Cabart model 74 oboes I have had) seem to make the D#-E trill sound "close enough for government work."
Have you checked with Richard Craig in Adelaide about what instruments he may have on the horizon? Richard's prices seem to be fairly reasonable...
With best wishes,
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-02-10 14:05
Richard was next on my list, although last I checked he had a lot of top end models out of the price range. Thanks for the info, Peter!
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-02-15 17:37
Richard had oboes staring around $AU3800, and said the Kreul would definitely be the best bang for the buck. And lo and behold, she has bought it and it arrives next week. Thanks for the input, everyone!
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