 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Poetry
Date: 2014-01-17 17:06
Hello all.
I know this is an almost impossible question to answer, but I'll ask you anyway.
How good do you think I'll be able to get if I start playing oboe now? I've just turned 21.
I've been singing classical music for 12 years (therefore have good diaphragm and air control), and I've taught myself to play the clarinet and played (not perfectly, but pretty nicely - with reeds 3½ and 4) for a year and I half.
I know how to read music, know everything about dynamics and so on. I've been told my a music teacher, that I'm a fast learner.
My sense of rhythm is not perfect, but great when conducted.
Is there any hope for me, if I start playing now with a teacher? I know I can't become professional, but can I be good enough to be in an ensemble or smaller orchestra if I practise almost every day?
As stated, I know it's very individual. But I just need your opinions about whether it's too late to start playing the oboe. I don't want to do it, if I can only become good enough to play for myself and friends.
And (this is a long shot) - do you think it's possible for me in any way in less than 4 years (about 3,5) to become good enough to get in to a music school that is prior to the conservatories? (I know this is very unlikely, but I really want to do something with music, but sadly hasn't chosen the right instrument yet.. so now it might be too late).
Post Edited (2014-01-17 17:26)
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Author: darryoboe
Date: 2014-01-17 14:31
I read an article recently citing new research that indicated the ability to learn and retain musical concepts is just as great in adults as it is in young children (this is very different from what I was always told).
So don't consider your age an obstacle. Pursue the oboe and don't look back.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-01-17 19:36
I definitely don't think it's too late! It just depends on your commitment and expected timeframes.
I am a late oboe bloomer myself, but with slightly more background. I am a semi-pro flautist with a degree in flute performance and I teach flute as my primary instrument (with a bit of clarinet thrown in for good measure). I got bored of being relegated to 2nd/picc parts in community orchestras simply because there are too many flutes out there. I started doubling on clarinet for teaching purposes, but it just wasn't my instrument. I started oboe at the age of 24 (31 now) and haven't looked back.
I recently attended an amateur music camp, and played in concerto night. The principal oboist of our state symphony orchestra was there and heard me, and she was full of praise for my playing, which boosted me no end! I have only been playing 7 years!
My husband did a Masters in the US and I joined the oboe studio as a non-major student. In placement auditions, I frequently ranked in the top half of the studio, and this was after 5-6 years of playing. So it is doable. Most students in the US start playing the oboe between 6th and 9th grade, depending on the school. Some of the younger students at the university I was at had only been playing for 4 years upon entrance. I am not sure of the background of European oboe students, but this gives you an idea. Here in Australia, at least in my state, oboe students typically have five years of training before entering university.
If you have a background in classical voice, there is a good chance you have an established sense of musicality and confidence, both vital elements to becoming a successful oboe player. I knew oboe was for me when I just became obsessed by it - moreso than I had ever been obsessed by the flute. I am an extremely active listener during orchestral oboe solos and I absorb others' oboe playing.
Your background is also not devoid of any musical training. If you have never studied any music, the question would be much harder to answer. I would definitely try to do what you can, if you think the oboe is the instrument for you.
And if so...welcome to our community! Let us know your progress.
Rachel
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-17 15:02
I'm also a returning player after around ten years (that was back in 1998) - only this time I have more maturity than I did as a 14-16 year old and have applied what I've learnt in the meantime to the new subject of oboe playing. Also going to a teacher who I met when I was out of the oboe playing circuit but who made a good impression watching her teaching one of her pupils prior to a recital had me consider her as my teacher if I ever decided to take it up again.
So this time round I've taken the bull by the horns and made myself a better player than I would've been had I just mucked around as I did before. Also what I've learnt from my oboe teacher has been invaluable to all my other instruments.
I always loved Baroque music but never played any Baroque suitable instrument while at college (I did clarinet as my main study and played sax anyway), so going back to oboe opened up the world of Bach, Telemann and Vivaldi (among other Baroque composers) as to be honest, Mozart and Haydn don't really do much for me.
Your experience as a singer will be a benefit when it comes to phrasing and musical style, so apply that knowledge to your oboe playing. But above all, find inspiration from your favourite player and do what you possibly can to emulate their tone and you can't go wrong. Obviously seek out the best teacher you can and always ask advice where reeds are concerned as they will be your biggest headache from day one.
But whatever you do, enjoy it!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tita
Date: 2014-01-17 15:12
Hi!
I think you can get just as good as you want to be . Since you already have a musical background, a teacher available and no greater issues with fine motor skills, there should be nothing in your way. It's all about your own motivation. I started fairly old too (15), with no prior experience on woodwinds (I couldn't even read music) and now, after five years, I've achieved the level where people usually get after 10 years of playing. I don't think there's anything in oboe you couldn't learn as an adult, and adult learners are also often more efficient in their practice.
And don't they say the brain is in it's prime at the early twenties?
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Author: JRC
Date: 2014-01-17 20:29
It is entirely up to you. How much TIME are you willing to put in to oboe? That will be the limiting factor. However there is always a ceiling set by how much musical talent you were born with.
I know some oboists who have practiced 6-8 hour a day every day. Actual playing time may have been 4-6 hours. And for at least 4 years. They reached the highest technical level one could imagine, i.e. master most of oboe repertories including all published oboe works of Pasculli, Holliger, Piazzolla, and the like. Just to maintain the level, they have to practice at least 2 hours every day.
I am certain that you can get there. But are you willing?
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Author: Poetry
Date: 2014-01-17 17:07
I'm impressed by how thorough and positive your answers are. I really hadn't expected anyone to answer this quickly and with such nice posts
I can really use all your advice and it just makes my want to give it a try, so much more!
I really do think oboe is my instrument, I've always been so intrigued by it, but where I lived before it wasn't possible to find a teacher.
I do feel very confident in musical theory and classical music, so that should be the least of my problems. I think my major problem will be coping with not being very good in the beginning. I hate that because I really want to play amazing music, but I know only practising will help that.
JCR: That's really inspiring. Soon I'll start studying, so 6-8 hours a day won't be possible. Around 3 times a day might be realistic.
Then I only need to find myself a good instrument, which is quite a challenge, as oboe is not the most common instrument in DK and there usually aren't a lot of used ones for sale. I would want to play a wood one from the start.
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Author: Oboelips
Date: 2014-01-18 01:06
Greetings!
I didn't start oboe until I was 30. I had wanted to play oboe since the 3rd grade (1963) but when the time came for instrument selection, I was given a flute. I happily played flute for decades, but when I turned 30, I said to myself, "if you ever mean to play oboe, you'd better start soon". I bought a secondhand oboe, and within 2 weeks of starting lessons, I had auditioned for and won the 2nd Oboe chair in the local Community Orchestra.
The advantages of being an older student are:
1. You are more mature and have better self-discipline
2. You are more confident that if it doesn't sound good to you, it probably doesn't to others, either, and vice-versa.
3. You are usually more financially stable than you were as a teen. Oboes, and their appurtenances, are expensive. Using the correct tools and materials DOES make a difference, and they don't come cheap.
4. As an adult, you are doing this because YOU want to--NOT because a parent or someone else expects it of you. You have more skin in the game, and will likely work and practice more.
Many years have passed since then (right around 28-29). I'm now Oboe Principal, and the Orchestra has grown and improved. I have too many concerts and gigs to count behind me now. Concert Orchestras, Church Orchestras, Ballet Orchestras, Pit Orchestras....I now have over a decade of Wind Quintet experience and have played gigs for all sorts of events--weddings, garden parties, Christmas gigs, benefits. 4-5 years ago, I started a Doublereed Ensemble. We are now playing gigs. Learning the oboe gave me the confidence to learn other instruments too..many summers I've been a woodwind doubler for musicals (although marrying a music educator surely helped there--clarinet is HARD!). BTW, my husband improved my counting/sight reading immensely, too.
I had the good luck to have a professional oboist (a Gomberg student himself) as a teacher when I'd played for only a few years. He helped me break some bad habits and got me away from the light, "mosquito in a jar" sound that I was in danger of developing. I learned the benefit of his concept of Reedology.
So...a lifetime of opportunity awaits you if you opt to try it. If nothing else, find a friend with an extra oboe who will let you try it, or rent an oboe for a month, and find a teacher to help you get started--that will let you know if it is really for you or not, with a smaller cost.
Oh..and one other thing. When you play oboe, you also get the opportunity to play English Horn--and that's a lovely thing in and of itself.
I'm currently playing English Horn for Ballet Orchestra due to a cyst in my palm. It's not oboe, but it's certainly fun. The cyst is getting smaller, and after the Ballet, I'll return to my Oboe position. Ahhh...back home.
So..how good can you get? Your work will yield results. If you want, you can get very decently good. Age doesn't have a whole lot to do with it--don't let a little number like an age slow you down!
Oboefully,
Deb
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2014-01-17 23:41
Add to the above the fact that you already know a lot of what you might have thought you didn't, since the oboe fingers 'almost' like the upper ocatve of the clarinet, which you already know. And although the embouchure is different, it is a woodwind and air, support and articulation are very similar. Add that to your general knowledge of music, and I'll bet you're playing most of your scales in a couple of weeks.
Go for it!
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2014-01-18 07:09
Agree with Robert, go for it! And listen to as much great oboe as you can get your hands/ears on, from current and previous generations.
Mack..... Gomberg(s).... De lancie.... Robinson, (USA) and dozens of others from around the world.
Wondering how good you might get to be is relative to how good others got to be.
Listen like a madman/madwoman. It is one of the greatest lessons.
Fortunately you are doing this at a point where web resources are a major resource.
It is a great time to be alive with the music and the technology.
-Craig
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2014-01-18 08:16
I don't think your ultimate capability in ANYTHING -- be it oboe playing or business administration or computer programming -- has much to do with the age when you start. I believe it has something to do with aptitude, and a great, great deal to do with intelligent perseverance.
Note well that I say INTELLIGENT perseverance. Because in 10 years' time, you can get 1 year of experience ten times over, or actually TEN years of experience.
It depends on how much you are willing to pursue excellence, and understand what excellence is, and to put yourself in the position to experience growth -- with a teacher, with an ensemble, or even on your own.
I have been playing the oboe for 10 years now. I started when I was 59 years old. I don't think I have 10 years' experience. I think I probably have about 5 years' experience, stretched over a period of ten years. The last couple of years have been growth years, but there were several in there that were just marking time, when I did not understand how to deal with the problems I was encountering, and seek help to resolve them.
That said, let me tell you what I have actually done in my ten years as an oboist. I started in a very average community band, and a little quintet that I put together from that. Moving to a larger city, I began participating in a band for "senior citizens," and then a larger, very excellent community band. From that, I auditioned into a select community wind ensemble, and through that became involved in two other pretty good quintets. Two years ago, I jumped at the opportunity to play principal oboe in a community orchestra, and parlayed that into a slot in a select orchestra (where I am still struggling to measure up). The highlights of my career include playing the Rodrigo Concierto de Aranjuez English Horn solo amazingly well, and being highly praised by a legitimate reviewer for my work as principal oboe in a performance of Mahler's first symphony. These experiences were beyond my wildest dreams of what I could ever do.
I sometimes get paid -- barely enough to pay for gas and reeds, but checks are nice. And it is very nice to get called back by an organization to play -- and get paid -- again.
Get a teacher. If you stop progressing with that teacher, get another teacher. Go with the flow. Take every opportunity to play, whether or not you think you are up to it. Work through your issues. Don't expect miracles. It's a game of inches. But the inches add up to feet, and yards, and miles.
Susan
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Author: oboi
Date: 2014-01-18 23:01
Hello!
You sort of sound like me. I started the oboe at age 25, self-teaching myself for about a year. Joined an entry-level orchestra in half a year after starting. Started taking lessons after a few months of that (which I was told I was already intermediate). Probably 3 years into playing, I was told I could probably get into a music school. Now, after 5-ish years, I'm "pre-professional" level and if I work at it this year really hard I can probably consider myself a semi-pro. I also still have aspirations to become a pro, which I think I could probably do, if I really wanted to.
I spend lots of time on the oboe, and I'm a pretty quick musical learner, and can pick up any wind instrument and learn it in a short amount of time. I also have been playing piano most of my life, so I already had a good background before taking up the oboe. I feel that I've started too late, but I'm realizing more and more that I could do it if I wanted to..... it's moreso the time of life issues (I'm not a kid who can drop my life and go to a conservatory... well, I could, but I'm not), and not technical because of age. I've even picked up a few instruments after the oboe and have no qualms about getting very good at them if I wanted to.
So I guess it depends on your dedication and also your aptitude for this sort of stuff. But it's certainly not impossible.
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2014-01-18 19:13
Is there any hope for me, if I start playing now with a teacher? I say yes, pick up the oboe.
I know I can't become professional, but can I be good enough to be in an ensemble or smaller orchestra if I practise almost every day? Again yes, if you have the desire to learn and are willing to put in the time, go for it. Practice is so important.
I chose to learn oboe all over again in my 30's. I needed something to do. I live in the woods.
Being considered "good" at oboe is influenced heavily by the circle of friends you keep, their experience with music and your willingness to represent the oboe to the best of your ability. The oboe used to be pretty misunderstood in my personal sphere. Still misunderstood in our corner of the world. I am leaving out the local music scene on purpose, because that is a different ball of wax.
Looking back at high school I really was so terrible. I cringe at the thought! In community band, I'm ok, could be a lot better. In church? They think I'm great. But I'm not playing oboe in church to be really good. I've played in community orchestra and really enjoyed the experience, perhaps more than anyone within earshot would let on. But I put my all into every song I play in public, and that shows, since there are compliments from other musicians here and there.
As for personal perception of my oboe abilities, I have a lot to learn and could never play on a professional level. Not that that is a limiting factor for music I choose to play at home. Oboe is elite. I want to be elite at SOMETHING in my own little world, even if I will never be that great elsewhere.
So go and find a good oboe and teacher. Its worth it.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2014-01-19 09:23
I'm not sure age is an issue at 30 as much as the usual factors.
1. Discipline
2. Equipment
3. Instruction
Obviously as everyone mentions DISCIPLINE and practice are the key factors here. You should expect to play 10-15 minutes, three times a day the first month or so, and slowly build five minutes a day a week until you're up to an hour twice a day or so. Based upon your consistency (once in morning, once in afternoon, once in evening), this would be the equivalent of starting bicep curls for someone who has no muscle. Start with 3 pound weights and do 3 sets of 10 reps.
EQUIPMENT is an underestimated issue, but I've seen it affect a student's progress and seen what students are capable of when it is not an issue. Many people might tell you to buy a student instrument. I believe you should buy what you can afford. If a used Fox 330 for $2500 is your price range, great, buy it. If a used Newish-Loree for $5000, buy that instead. The better an instrument you will have, the less problems (uneven tone from note to note, out of tune notes, lack of warmth of tone in the bore, etc.) and therefore the less you will try to compensate by falling into bad habits. I find it is far easier to work with a student to get them set up correctly and then help them to add in more flexibility once they've established a foundation of muscle than to make them start out with no muscle trying to gain enough flexibility to play the darn instrument, then try to teach them how to play the instrument correctly.
The same is equally, if not more, important with reeds. Finding a good source of stable, in-tune, comfortable reeds will keep you from physical pain, frustration, and mental anguish with the instrument. This is often equally tied into INSTRUCTION as your teacher can help you to gauge what is a "superior reed" from a "lesser quality" reed. Often times, a teacher will be able to make you a reed. I currently have 11 students in my studio and some of them are just starting to make their own reeds and have me finish them, but about half of them are still buying reeds, and I realized the other day how quickly my pre-college students are improving, and I think the fact that I can scrape reeds for them, on their oboes, for their embouchure and blowing ability.
Hope this gives you enough to think about.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-01-19 11:42
I like your advice, Cooper. We do overlook this is favour of giving advice about commitment and passion. But commitment and passion will go by the wayside if your equipment is a stumbling block.
I am currently working on a blog post directed at doublers, with this being one of my points of contention. I had a colleague speak to me several years back, about a student she had, a clarinetist, who was wanting to become a doubler and was specifically working on oboe at the time. She was telling me she thought he had problems with tone and tuning.
"What instrument does he have?"
"It's an Armstrong, so you know, pretty good..."
"Well, there's half your problem. What reeds is he using?"
"Those red ones from *insert music store here*." (Ricos, in other words)
"Well, there's the other half of your problem."
Cue confused looks. I think she just thought I could give him some lessons and all would be well with the world. Pretty sure I couldn't make that equipment sound good, let alone a beginner.
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2014-01-20 02:10
Also, as an excellent resource of all things oboe, go to Martin Schuring's page at Arizona State University:http://www.public.asu.edu/~schuring/main.html
This and other web sources will answer most questions you might ask in the absence of a teacher, but there is no substitute for a teacher, since you not recognize the problem you should be asking about...
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2014-01-19 22:07
What are the minimum requirements for a beginner instrument? Maybe some examples? Is it really not even worth starting without spending thousands?
I am also a late starter, in my case almost 50! I have made good progress on alto sax and clarinet in the last couple years and have played flute forever. I just couldn't justify spending more on a starter oboe than my pre-professional flute.
Not knowing much better, I bought a used Yamaha 241 for about $650. It is conspicuously missing an alt-f or even f-resonance key. It didn't take long to discover that's not good. It's plastic, but supposedly has the same drillings as the 441, which would be about another thousand. Are either the 241 or 441 good enough for a starting doubler?
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2014-01-20 06:23
Jim, you could easily sell the 241 for what you paid for it, provided it is still in the same condition.
I just started an oboe student on the weekend who had previously played bassoon and flute, on my old 211, and it is clear she would outgrow the instrument within 3 months, maybe less, if she kept using it.
441 is fine for a starting doubler, but I personally am not a fan of Yamaha oboes. I think they lack a centre of tone and pitch and are harder to control than an oboe built by an oboe company, but that is just my opinion. I think you would be far better off picking up a used Fox 330/300 for around $2000. Watch out that the used instrument does have a left F, because there are some seeming 'bargain' Foxes out there, which do not have the left F on closer inspection.
Other good starting doubler investments would be the Bulgheroni student or artist models (I have not played one, but heard good reports), or perhaps an older model Kreul or similar (check Peter Hurd's website for advice and information on these). Howarth S20C and S40C are very popular for students and amateurs here in Oz.
I did the same as you for my first oboe, but bought an old Cabart. No left F, as I came to discover. But for me, it was a good investment because I didn't have to pay big bucks to discover that I loved the oboe, and could invest in a better oboe as time, interest and funds permitted.
Rachel
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