 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2013-12-16 21:33
So I made this reed ... there is a small chirp above the high C. So I even out the tip ... look at the blend etc.
Still there .... I reformed the tip 3 times ... still a chirp?
What gives .... is there some micro crack I don't see?
I noticed lately ... since I had to use a slightly wider shape (while I'm waiting for new template) ... there seems to more chirps flying around.
I am also suspect of my Rieger tip cutter. I wonder if the machine is causing some micro cracks in the manner it cuts the cane.
Any ideas out there?
Mark
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2013-12-17 00:54
The sides are sealed well.
The only difference is the cane was shaped on a shaper machine.
Mark
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2013-12-17 05:00
Good scientific method would dictate that if the only change is the shaping method, return to the earlier shaping method and see what you get. But in my experience, chirping on the attack is the result of an unbalanced (from blade to blade) tip, either in length or in thickness.
I doubt the tip cutter is to blame unless you are clipping an un-scraped tip where you might be flattening an inflexible arch. John Mack used to say that if you subject the cane to a bit of abuse as you make the reed it is more likely to fail in the reed making process than while it matters.
And are we talking about one mystery reed or is this a trend?
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2013-12-17 12:59
Hi,
This seems to be a trend since I started using the wider shaper template RDG -1. My usual template is a rdg -1N. So the two new variables are the new wider template and shaper machine.
I have been extra careful with my knife technique too ... What really caught my attention is the inability to fix the "chirp"; usually for me this is not a problem unless of course the reed is cracked in the tip.
The chirp may begin on the high C but usually on the C# and/or higher.
So it's mystery to me why a slightly wider tip would result in more chirps?
Furthermore and more frustrating still is the fact the reeds are quite lovely overall!
Mark
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2013-12-17 21:30
Update,
Well I redid the tip for the fifth time ..... thank heavens the reed was tied a bit long.
The chirp is gone .... the reed is almost good enough for practice. The culprit seems to have been the tip/blend. When I scraped down across the heart portion of the tip/blend junction the chirp eventually ceased.
I can't believe it took so many adjustments.
Mark
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2014-01-12 23:30
Okay ... I made some new reeds and the "chirps" are back ... mostly in the notes above octave C. Although it seems to start strongly at the octave C.
I must admit I am going a little mad. I thought it might have been a slightly wider shaper tip; however, the problem persists with my original shape.
I never had this persistent problem in all my years of playing ... and I don't understand why now?
I have managed to tame the chirp (blending the heart better ... smoothing out the tip etc) but not completely eliminate it in the upper registers. It's not the Oboe since my old reeds play just fine. No chirps.
If I could identify the problem ... then at least I could fix it. None of my reed techniques seem to eliminate the problem.
I am open to any and all suggestions.
How do I narrow down the variables to find the culprit here?
Mark
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2014-01-13 15:54
As someone mentioned, they are usually caused by:
1. A place where you made somewhere in the middle of the tip thinner than further out. It needs to be a good taper otherwise the chirp will appear.
2. Usually it occurs right at the bottom of the integration between the heart and tip as somehow that place might get slightly too thin and be thinner than the outer edges of the tip.
3. The thinner the center of your tips are the more often this will appear.
4. The narrower the shaper tip the more this happens for me. No surprise to me that you are having difficulty with this issue on the rdg -1n.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2014-01-13 16:25
Okay ... some relief at last.
My teacher took a look at the reed and two adjustments were made:
The center tip was cut down to less than 2mm (my tips are 2 mm or so at center and 3 mm sides).
More importantly the sides of the blend were scraped to permit the vibrations to move towards the back of the reed. The crow with the chirps present lacked sufficient lower vibrations.
So the cutting and reforming tip with a more removed from the sides of the reed/blend removed the chirps. (Interestingly, I also made progress removing the chirps from thinning out the heart).
So by bringing out the lower vibrations and freeing up the reed by thinning out the sides and having a slightly shorter tip resolved the problem chirps.
Mark
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2014-01-14 00:22
How steep is the "roof" of your inverted V? 2mm center to 3mm sides would be at the extreme shallow end of my normal roof. My inverted V can be twice as steep as that!
When you say "thinning out the sides", do you mean lengthening the sides of the blend/shoulder into the heart, or thinning the sides of the tip, or thinning the sides of the heart?
Freeing up the vibrations is essential - if the reed is tight and stuffy you will often be tempted to remove cane from all the wrong areas to get it vibrating. In David Webber's reed manual his method begins by creating a very long tip that sounds raucous and flat, but sure-as-hell vibrates! And then he refines from there. Brilliant.
J.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2014-01-14 00:43
Thinning the sides of the heart into the tip blend and thinning the sides of the heart. Emphasis on the first. Also you can thin out the heart (sand paper) if the reed is a bit stuffy afterwards.
2mm is the length of the tip from the heart/blend center. 3mm is the length of the tip sides from heart/blend to end of tip. My teachers tip less than 2mm ... it is 1.5 mm at center.
I find a tip that a short can be a bit harder to blow ... however, the sound projects well - is very /stable/centered/focused and round ... even though up close it sounds a but stuffy to the ear. My teacher says the reed will loosen up with playing over time. Usually, I make a playable reed free blowing reed right away ... so this is a new process for me.
Mark
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2014-01-15 08:19
Where, oh where was all this specific informed help when I was learning reed making?
This is a great time to be alive in the world.
All the social network problems, data security issues, etc, are real and will only get really worse fast, (SERIOUSLY, really fast) so lets figure a way to protect these valuable assets for all of us.
I was a computer programmer for over 20 years while keeping up oboe and really do not get the motivation to distruct this better new world, but look at recent things where iPhones can decrypt data in a few minutes that would have taken a super computer 100,000 years 4 years ago, Targets customer data leaks, fingerprint and eye scans breaking down, etc. You have no idea what is really coming.
While those web-security problems get solved and new multi-billionaires get formed, lets at least protect the forum and the wonderful sharing of our artful crafts.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2014-01-15 13:02
Yes, the internet is a quite wonderful sharing resource.
I also belong to a composers forum ... absolutely wonderful too ... a tuition free education.
Mark
PS: So far no "chirps"!!!!
Post Edited (2014-01-15 18:20)
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