 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-08-10 18:34
Once again, I purchased a "professional" reed that simply does not meet expectations. The tip is so long as to make the reed unstable, has been scraped to the same thickness in the middle as at the edges, and the reed is just pain weak and almost collapses if I subject it to even my out-of-practice embouchure and air flow. Do pros REALLY play on reeds like this? Or am I spoiled by having studied with one of the best reed makers in the West?
Second question: are there oboes that are less reed-sensitive than others?
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2013-08-11 00:37
I have found that any of the oboes made by Hans Kreul (Hans Kreul, Kreul/Mirafone, Kreul/Gordet, Kreul/Lucerne, TAM, ENEG, and many other "stencil" brands made by Kreul) to be exceedingly "forgiving" with respect to reeds.
Please know two different models of Hans Kreul oboe exist:
1) The "heavy weight pattern" Likely the heaviest oboe ever made, and also likely the "darkest" sounding oboe ever made
2) The "standard weight pattern" Still a "dark" sounding oboe, though not as "dark" as the "heavy weight pattern." This oboe does have an element
(a "glimmer") of "bright" to the sound. This model has all of the "core," "depth,"
"complexity," and "warmth" I would expect to hear in a BI-BP series Loree oboe.
The "standard weight pattern" Kreul is one of my all time favorite oboes.
The key-work on any of the Kreul oboes is made of the toughest alloy I have ever come across. Pretty much indestructible, unless dropped off a high building...
With best wishes,
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2013-08-11 09:18
If you purchased a pro reed that did not meet your expectations, do everyone a favor and SEND IT BACK to the maker.
Any decent pro-reed maker will prefer you to do this, rather than lose all of your business for the future! Write a note explaining what is wrong, and what you expected.
J.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-08-11 21:33
I've purchased "pro" reeds from most of the makers who sell them on the internet, and have not yet had one that I found suitable.
I played on a Miraphone oboe once, and it was a half step flat on A in the staff. I have no idea what was wrong with it, but it formed a permanent impression.
If I can find a source of reeds that I find suitable, I'm going to buy a high level oboe. If not.....not interested in making quacking sounds
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Author: oboi
Date: 2013-08-11 22:57
It would be worth learning at least some reed scraping techniques to adjust reeds that you have bought, especially if you buy a high end oboe. Some reeds for sale are also made with the intent that you will have to adjust slightly to suit your own needs. Just tiny scrapes/clips can make a huge difference and take little time to fix. Little tweaks can also prolong a dying reed.
I have not been able to play on reeds given to me without adjustment. They are still lying in my reedcase and meanwhile I'm just making my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-08-12 01:13
For a student who would use Marlin Lesher purchased reeds, I would scrape some windows in the back as the ones I've seen appear to be like the old W scrape reeds without windows. Good luck!
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2013-08-12 10:28
@Wes, I don't think you can just add windows to a W scrape. Full American scrape reeds are structurally different from classic W scrape reeds, differences that begin with the gouge.
@Cooper, you make/used to make pro-reeds. I remember on your blog how upset you were that someone had given you a lousy review, anonymously, and you had no way to fix that, right? Back me up here!
@Beatrice, all the pro reedmakers, the real ones who make reeds they play and perform on themselves, always prefer you to return a reed you find doesn't meet your requirements.
It goes to their professional pride in their work.
Also, remember that reeds are very fickle and can change enormously over time, changing due to weather conditions and elevation (among other things). Providing the perfect reed through the post is hard to do, and most sellers are willing to take a couple of tries to get it right.
J.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2013-08-12 10:39
It would be an accident if a reed made by someone other than you would fit you perfectly. You must finish the reeds to suit you. At least, that is what I found and it seem logical. Because everyone has different physical conditions, instrument, weather...
I found that it is more difficult to buy American style (long scrape) reeds and make it fit me for some reason. It has been much easier to buy "German" style reeds and turn them into long scrape reeds, or short scrape reeds (European style) either it is German or French.
Quality of all "professional" reeds are not consistently good. I buy from China (K-Ge), Korea (On-Line Oboe), and Europe (Cowdy and lots more at Howarth). I found that I had to pay around $25-$35 per reed to get a decent quality cane, staple, and overall workmanship. I could make every one of them comes out decent. Cheaper variety (whatever they are called either professional or special or or something) have been like buying a lottery ticket. Most of them simply could not be made to work. If they did, i would be after too much work on my part.
I hope this helps.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-08-12 15:39
The problem with reeds is that I make "almost finished" ones quite well. What I was never able to do was finish them. I could take them to my teacher and he'd have them perfect in 30 seconds. So there is not much point in getting a reed that I have to finish; I could supply reeds that are not quite finished to other people, and they would be fine after finishing. So you see the problem.
I'm not a beginner, but I gave up on oboe because of the apparent inability to learn to finish reeds. Hence my interest in finding a reed source or possibly a profiler, but it sounds like the profiler doesn't do any more than I can already do on my own, although it certainly would be quicker. Ha ha...I could ruin the reeds at a much greater rate!
You can't finish a reed that is already thin and unstable when you buy it; if I trim the much-too-long tip, the reed will be sharp. I did write the source of the reed but have not heard back, so I assume they are not concerned. Reeds that I like have a crow that first sounds the high C, then with more air an octave lower C sounds. These reeds are exceptionally stable and rich in tone.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2013-08-12 18:58
This is going to sound a bit harsh - but I really don't mean it to be, honestly.
Don't let your reeds rule your oboe-life. You must rule THEM. You are in charge.
As an oboist you must learn how to play - really play, perform if necessary - on less than stellar reeds. You NEED to be able to perform on a mediocre reed not just because the damn things are so fickle, but so that you can concentrate on making as much music as possible with the equipment you have at hand. The reed is only one part of the sound production; YOU are the most important part in the equation, not your reed.
Once you are able to perform freely on reeds with a wide range of playability, this will solve your second problem as well - you will nearly always be able to adjust a reed and plop it into that range with only mediocre skills. And your skills will improve with your new-found confidence. Win-win-win.
Why don't you take that pro reed and play it to death? When it is really dead, clip it - only clip it - and keep going ...
I had a perfect reed once.
Maybe twice. ;-)
J.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-08-12 23:54
Nah. I have already achieved enough mastery of the violin and the horn to have them be very enjoyable to play (and get paid to play,) and was really enjoying the oboe except for the reeds. If that is the way it is, I will not really be interested. I want to make music, not fiddle with unworkable things. I put *considerable* time into learning reed making and apparently I am not up to the task.
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Author: oboi
Date: 2013-08-13 04:33
I think at some point in an oboist's life, there is that hill where you face where your finger and musical skills exceed your reed control skills. I hit that about 2 years ago. I couldn't make the reed do what I want. Sometimes I sounded nice, but other times, the reed ruled me. Because I made my own reeds, part of it was my playing (air, embouchure) skills, the other was my reeds. Now, I have much more control of my embouchure. I can accommodate. I still have reedmaking issues, and I usually run to my teacher to fix a lot of them, but I've made many good reeds and my knife skills have reached a point where I CAN adjust most reeds to make them playable. Even hopelessly messed up ones (chipped up tip, very old, very leaky). It's still an ongoing process, but I think I've gotten past that reed hell. And I could fill up a reed case with playable reeds without my teacher's help in theory. My reedmaking time has decreased significantly and the output is much greater. Yay, I can actually practice and not whittle!
There ought to be pro reeds that are suitable for you. Is there a local person who can make them for you? Or at least adjust those you bought? I can spend most of my lesson getting reeds fixed. Yeah, that's lesson time, but saves me hours tinkering myself and saves reeds that I might have otherwise thrown out.
What is your goal with the oboe? For personal enjoyment? Do you want to gig with it? If you're not needing to play specifically the oboe in an ensemble, consider the English horn. Those reeds are way less finicky. Repertoire is much less, but if it's mainly for personal enjoyment without accompanist, then any oboe music will work. You can also find gigs with it. You can also play lots of French horn music (if it doesn't go too low).
But yeah, oboe isn't much of a pick-up-and-play instrument. That's not to say one can't be a casual player who does not worry about reeds or are content with what they have. Beginners, intermediates.... But there is always a chance that the reed does not behave, and you're out of luck, and have to spend 100% of effort adjusting to it rather than, say, making it 50/50. :-P Once you get to the advanced stage when you think the reed is limiting your playing, either you find a good supplier/teacher or learn to adjust/make them. And persisting, your playing skills will overcome lots of what your reeds may throw at you.
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Author: rgombine
Date: 2013-08-22 03:24
1. So are you looking for sources for pro reeds? I am sure I and others can recommend some for you.
2. some instruments are definitely more forgiving than others. I have only a limited experience based on instruments i have played, but my I can play reeds on my howarth that I can never get to sound good on my loree, whereas reeds that are suitable for my loree still sound good on the howarth.
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Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2013-08-22 06:48
I have an oboe which works well with nearly every reeds, but it happends during the summer and only during the summer that I have to shortened a reed for that oboe (should the reeds be shorter during the summer?).
I have another oboe to which the reeds only works just after I fixed them. After they dried out I have to fixed them again before I use them. But just two weeks ago, when I got so tired with the oboe, so I tried scrape a reed in a total different way and that reed has work well since then, but it´s possible to use it with my other oboes.
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2013-08-24 00:09
Who do you purchase your reeds from? I ordered some about 2 months ago and they are still not here. My current ones are nearly "junk". It is just as well that I have not been able to play for the past month due to illness but when I am ready in about 2 weeks I sure hope they have arrived in my mailbox.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-08-28 21:14
Update on the "bad" reed that drove the original post: The seller offered to have me send it back and they would "evaluate" it to see if it met what they thought it should be. I declined, because I knew what would occur would be that I would be out not only the cost of the reed but the cost of shipping it back to them.
Since then I found, through word of mouth (not someone who advertises) someone in my general area of the country who sent me a reed that I found quite usable. So I'll keep ordering from that person.
Thanks to all who contributed to the topic. I think most of my problem in finishing reeds is a lack of skill in knife sharpening, and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that. When the knife takes chunks out of the reed no matter what you do (and I'm definitely not "rough" with it) then there has to be some other way of sharpening it. I think I'd do as well with an electric knife sharpener, frankly. (Oh boy, THAT ought to start some discussion....)
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Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2013-08-29 06:36
Yes, I have very good knives because I send away my knives for sharpening, but it has happend to me that chunks is taken out from the reds, but now I know where I can buy canes or blanks reeds and who I should avoid.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-08-30 04:10
Given that every knife I have used has to be at least "toned" a little one or more times during making a reed....it doesn't seem feasible to send it off to be sharpened. Your reed making method must be really different from how I learned it.
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Author: darryoboe
Date: 2013-08-30 17:34
I'm not going to touch the idea of an electric knife sharpener.
Knives can be hugely frustrating. I remember an entire year when my knives didn't work right and as a result my reeds sucked.
Maybe try a different type of knife?
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2013-09-03 20:00
@EaubeauHorn: In Stevens Hewitt's book, Method for Oboe, which I highly recommend, he points out that "The first secret of reed making is a sharp knife. The second secret of reed making is a sharp knife." This is absolutely true.
Westwind Double Reed (me, by the way...) has just designed a knife sharpening fixture which holds your knife at exactly the same angle as you sharpen it and each time thereafter, which is the most difficult part of sharpening a knife. Using it you should be able to get a perfect scraping edge on your knife that lasts through several reeds. And since you are resharpening at the same angle, it takes only moments to re-hone your edge when it does need sharpening again.
Email me at <bob@westwinddoublereed.com> and I'll tell you more...
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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