 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Ronin614
Date: 2013-04-26 16:27
Hi, I've just joined the group and I figured I'd introduce myself and seek some much needed advice.
I'm forty-five years old and have gotten the psychotic notion into my head that I really want to learn the oboe. My daughter played in Junior High and HS, so I have a general idea of what sort of things await me. I've got an oboe to use for a while until I decide whether or not to purchase one of my own. I also have a friend who is a well respected HS band director who is willing to help me out. He's not an oboe specialist, but he's relatively knowledgeable.
I have somewhat of a background in music. I spent several years as a voice major in college and i play some bass. I not only understand theory, I actually like it.
I was just hoping that some of you might be able to provide some guidance. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Also, I'd like to hear from some others who have decided to take up this instrument a little later in life. I'd love to hear your experiences.
Thanks in advance for any help.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2013-04-26 16:56
Hello Ronin614,
Oboe is a wonderful instrument and I hope you will enjoy playing it a lot. That being said, it is also a hard instrument to play and to learn, so please be prepared if you don't sound good at the beginning. Your lips will get tired quickly and breathing could be an issue (maybe not as much for an adult beginner). I think it is much better to have a good oboe teacher (not a generalist) at the start, so that you are sent on the right path. I have taught students who came with bad habits, and it was very hard for me to correct them.
Sincerely,
Wai Kit Leung
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2013-04-26 17:40
Hello!
I am a professional musician (flute player) who started oboe at 24 (I had been doubling and just wasn't a clarinet/sax fan, and decided to experiment).
As someone who was used to 'sounding good' on an instrument (and who is married to another musician), I was determined that no one was going to hear me until I sounded okay. I literally locked myself in the back of the house during the 'duck phase'!
I am also an instrumental teacher, and there are two main points I advocate in my pedagogy. One is that short bursts of regular practice are the best for short and long term achievement. This is especially the case for oboe, where if the reed is not in your mouth at least several days a week (even if only 10 minutes at a time at first) you will not build up the muscles needed for endurance.
My other point (one that is to become the subject of my postgrad research because I believe in it so strongly) is that playing with someone/s is great for progress. This can be a real person, on your instrument or not, or even a CD, or a small ensemble. The other player/CD doesn't necessarily wait for you when you get tired! It is great for pitch and tone matching (which you already have a great background in, given your vocal training). It gives a sense of purpose (music is social, after all). Sometimes focusing on things other than fingers and sound (which we do in solo practice) actually improves these areas - reverse psychology and all.
Good luck! It is a fun instrument with a lot of beautiful solos and repertoire. I am so glad I fell into it, even this late in the game. And if you like working with your hands, you may discover later on that you enjoy reedmaking as well!
Rachel
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2013-04-26 18:50
I played self-taught oboe in jr/sr high school and took a long break and had to start out as a beginner again.
This second life was much improved by lessons! Nothing replaces learning from a live teacher. And practice every day.
Reed making is highly recommended too. It is entirely worth it to be complimented on a solo when the reed is one you made yourself.
Oh I really enjoy learning again (not so much my family tho) and still have a long ways to go. Good luck.
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Author: HelenJ
Date: 2013-04-26 19:34
Hi Ronin614!
I started to teach myself the oboe a year ago, at the age of 43.
I've dabbled in various instruments over the years, but felt they weren't a good match for me for whatever reason. I'm hoping the oboe is 'the one' and so far I'm enjoying it.
It certainly has its challenges, especially the lips getting tired, as Wai Kit mentioned above. I find practising daily helps with this and slowly my lips are getting stronger and I'm able to play for longer.
I find the reeds a struggle at times as well. I don't make my own. When I first started, I bought a few beginner reeds to try and could barely get a squeak out of some of them. Once I found a maker who seemed to make the perfect reed for me, I stuck with them and it has made such a difference to ease of playing.
I practise at around the same time each evening, so I get to fit it in. I only manage about 10 mins at the most during the week.
Before I bought my oboe, I bought a couple of oboe reeds to practice my embouchure on.
I think you should definitely give it a try! Have you had a go on the oboe you have yet?
Good luck,
Helen
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-04-26 20:38
While you may be able to learn other instruments by yourself, it is essential that the oboe beginner study with a serious oboe player/teacher. Their advice on reeds will be needed as you could spend many years trying to understand reeds. You will also need to have good reeds before you attempt to play with others, as there is no place to hide.
Reeds are a key part of oboe playing, despite what Heinz Holliger said. While the fingerings are complex with a lot of cross fingerings, they are not the main problem. In general, the oboe parts in a band are less technical than the flute or clarinet parts.
I also started fairly late, but after decades of playing with some success, I still find that reeds are a challenge. Good luck!
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Author: Ronin614
Date: 2013-04-26 22:47
I appreciate the input everyone.
I'll definitely look into getting an actual oboe player as a teacher.
I've done a little bit of playing on the oboe but its not pretty. Somewhere between a duck and a duck caught in a law mower. My daughter was just impressed that I could get any sound at all. One thing that. I did notice is that the low notes (below f) are HARD to get out. But I've always had the mentality that it would take some time to sound good, so I'm ok w it.
If this becomes a "main" instrument for me, then I'll probably look into learning to make reeds. (Yet another reason to find a specialist, I guess.)
As for my family, they're pretty supportive. They actually bought me a lesson book as a present, and my daughter said she'll help me out while she's home on summer break from college. Plus i try to practice when im home alone.
My dog on the other hand.....she's not so thrilled. :-)
My buddy (the band director) said he'll make some calls and set me up w opportunities to play w people whenever I want. He said they'd love to have an oboist, even one who is just starting out. I want to at least get to the point where I can actually hold pitch and fumble my way through some fingerlings before I do that though. There's a group relatively near where I live that on summer Fridays nights performs outdoor sight reading concerts w whoever shows up. That's my goal for next summer.
Also, I have the opportunity to sit on rehersals as an observer w a professional wind symphony to which my friend belongs. They're my LONG TERM goal. :-)
Again, thanks for the responses. Glad to see I'm not COMPLETELY out of my mind.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2013-04-26 23:58
good luck ... i began to play again at 40.
YOU MUST GET A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL TEACHER!
Mark
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2013-04-27 02:18
Hi
My adult student is in her mid-50s and had NEVER played a woodwind instrument before, only had early childhood lessons on piano.
She is doing GREAT and because no one told her how 'difficult' the oboe is to learn, is already doing some reed-adjustment for herself after playing only one year. Of course, she practices.
She just 'always wanted' to play the oboe and I'm happy that she's treating herself to a new interest. She IS nervous about the recital, though, but she'll 'blow them away'.
GoodWinds
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2013-04-27 04:44
Mary, I totally agree with your point about no one telling the student that the instrument is 'hard'.
There is a group of teachers back home who constantly perpetuate the myth that the oboe is 'hard' and that's why the kids don't stick with it.
Kids (and adults who haven't been exposed to that) don't know what is hard and what's not until you tell them. They just keep walking down the path you lay for them.
Sorry for veering your post off course, Ronin!
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Author: oboi
Date: 2013-04-27 10:33
I learned oboe at age 25 by just renting a student-level oboe, getting a beginner's method book and just hammering it out in my room. I did it for a few months, then bought my own intermediate-level oboe. Immediately after, I joined an amateur orchestra. The first few months of that was tough, but it became easier and easier. Before the end of the concert year, I had my first lesson, where I was told I was already past the beginner stage. I never looked back and a few years later, I am very advanced. The reason why I think I advanced that quickly was my background in playing flute in school, my lifelong piano studies and extreme interest.
I did have the "why do I sound so bad" phase and that probably only dissipated after about 3 years because I always compared my level to what I could do on the piano. I never found it hard to play... the playing of the actual properly-ready instrument. The main problem I have are reeds. As soon as I started making them, they were my main source of frustration. That I still struggle with, as that often prevents me from playing like I know how to play. I suspect it will take me a little while to be totally comfortable making a reed and not running to me teacher all the time asking, "why doesn't this work?!?!"
I have a good friend who took up oboe in her 40s. She started in group lessons and has been playing for decades and still has semi-consistent lessons with the principal oboist of the local symphony. She is mostly dependent on reeds being given to her, although she knows how to adjust and make them.
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2013-04-27 18:36
On a lighter note if you have any family members you particularly dislike you can do a "recital" for them before you are really ready. Especially if they have a dog.
Ok, it's a bad joke. I felt really self conscious the first time I played oboe in public in my second life as an amateur oboist. In my head I sounded wonderful. My face felt like it was going to fall off after the second number. Afterwards I felt great to be able to play - all those hours practicing did pay off.
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Author: Ronin614
Date: 2013-04-30 12:52
Thanks again for the responses everyone.
As for the whole concept of oboe being "hard", that kind of thing doesn't really register w me. I (at least TRY) to follow the Asian philosophy that nothing is hard or easy. It just "is". If something is hard for me to do (like the low notes) that's just an indication that I'm doing something incorrectly or that I'm not putting in enough time. Once it's corrected, it won't be hard anymore. :-).
Plus I have great inspiration in the form of my daughter. No one told her it was hard, so she just did it. When people tell her that they are impressed that she plays oboe because it's so difficult, she responds "No, it's really not." She isn't being arrogant, she just wasn't told early on that it was supposed to be difficult, so it wasn't.
Or maybe I'm just clueless and/or dense and it's going to kill me. :-)
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Author: Alan Davis ★2017
Date: 2013-05-06 03:56
In college, I was interested in playing the oboe because I liked the sound and I liked that it was not a transposed instrument. However, I never had time to pursue it. Many years letter, my son took up oboe after playing baritone sax in school for about five years, so we bought him a nice one -- a used rosewood Loree. Jump forward another twelve years or so, and my son announced that he was thinking about selling the oboe to get money to buy another saxophone. I told him No, I'll buy it. So I bought it a second time (he gave me a good deal!)
So, I'm now 66, retired and trying to play an oboe. I've been practicing steadily for four months now and I'm taking lessons from the principal oboist at out local symphony, whom I've known for many years. I've been singing forever, so I read music and know pitch, and I took three years of piano lessons all too long ago, but this is a very different thing.
I haven't told many people about this, because I was not sure I was going to stay with it, but I can see real progress now and practicing has become part of my day. It may be a difficult instrument, but it is what it is. I've taken on the challenge. Don't know if I'll ever perform in public, but I'm going to get good enough to just enjoy playing.
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Author: KJC
Date: 2013-05-06 16:33
Hi,
I took oboe up again after basically not playing much since high school. I started playing when I was ten. I took lessons at that time from an oboist in the local orchestra. I sold my Loree in college because I needed the money for tuition and knew I wasn't good enough to play in an orchestra (maybe I should have tried harder!!). Anyway, I started up again last year, and I am in my forties as well. I immediately started lessons with an oboist playing with the local symphony where I live now. I do recommend taking lessons from a professional oboist for the following reasons:
1. You won't waste as much time practicing the wrong way;
2 You will advance more quickly (assuming you put in the time);
3. You will help support a local professional musician (always a worthy endeavor! Even the orchestral musicians frequently have low salaries.);
4. The professional oboist will give you ideas/referrals for ensemble amateur playing;
5. You will be notified of notable performances to attend before the public;
6. You will be further inspired to play by listening and playing with the professional in your lessons.
-KJC
Post Edited (2013-05-06 17:02)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2013-05-16 02:52
@Alan Davis -- I went looking for the "Like" button (it's a Facebook thing . . .) when I read your post. Esp. the part about buying the oboe twice. Your shadow self knew what you really wanted to do, all along!
I began playing the oboe (after an on-and-off-again lifetime of playing the clarinet and directing church choirs) at the age of 60. I started on my own, but got a teacher after about 6 months.
Nine years and 8 oboes (some of them simultaneous -- I have four right now, not all operational) later, I am principal oboe in a well-established community orchestra, and play in two others locally. Plus the odd woodwind quintet. And I think I am finally getting the hang of it.
To the O.P. -- it gets better!
Susan
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Author: Alan Davis ★2017
Date: 2013-05-16 19:56
ohsusan, I would hope you're getting the hang of it after nine years. (And I hope I am, too, by that time.) Did you find it easier or hard to take up a different instrument? There would be similarities but fingering differences, and clarinet is a transposed instrument. I don't know if that makes for confusion or not. You probably have the mouth strength it takes for oboe. My continuing problem is that my mouth wears out way too fast. I've started practicing a shorter time, but twice a day, as recommended on the BBoard.
I don't do Facebook. People are already ticked that I don't check my email often enough. I don't need another venue that I have to check every day. I'd be happy to have an email conversation with you, though.
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Author: ClassicalOboist
Date: 2013-05-17 21:09
I can tell you that the most important thing about playing the oboe is finding a good teacher. That tops your list, as a beginner. I suggest someone who has been playing oboe for quite a while. They will tell you anything you need to know. When you first start oboe, most people recommend using an Emerald medium-soft or medium.
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Author: Ronin614
Date: 2013-05-21 23:04
Thanks for the encouragement and advice everyone. I've started the search for an oboe specialist. I've found two relatively close to where I live. One is $80 an hour (which seems kind of steep to me) and one is $40 an hour. Both seem to have decent pedigrees so I'll most likely go w the less expensive one.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2013-05-23 03:24
Alan,
The fingering transfer from clarinet to oboe wasn't all that difficult (although I still, from time to time, find myself reverting to the clarinet equivalent). My biggest problem has been getting my embouchure LOOSE enough -- yes, I had some pretty good clarinet chops at the outset, but the oboe requires LESS lip pressure and LESS air than the clarinet, and that has been the major adjustment -- to learn not to blow so hard, not to "bite", and not to play on too-hard, unresponsive reeds.
One of my favorite nuggets of wisdom that I have found online is in this article http://www.asboa.org/Resources/GozaOboe_Article.pdf, in the section on embouchure. To wit,
"The most important principle of embouchure formation is this: the oboe is played in a basically open mouth, not with lip-covered teeth."
When I finally absorbed this, all the rest of the technique -- mouth shape, abdominal support, even tonguing and clean fingering -- just sort of fell into place. Keep that jaw dropped and that pharyx OPEN. The lips are just a seal around the reed to prevent the air from escaping -- nothing more.
Wish I had figured that out about 8 years ago!
Susan
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Author: ptarmiganfeather
Date: 2013-05-23 04:02
Ohsuzan, this article could almost be another post entirely for discussion. It has many interesting points. All kinds of good stuff.
I finally got the no-biting thing down when I re-learned the oboe and had proper lessons as an adult. In self taught high school ignorance of many years ago I actually bit so hard my upper lip would bleed. My remedy? Use cigarette papers on my teeth as a cushion. That resulted in really gunky reeds. Lots of fond memories...
I really enjoyed reading the article. Thank you.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-05-23 05:23
Good luck on learning the oboe! However, even if you find the best teacher/player in the area, don't expect them to tell you everything you need to know. You must search and learn for yourself as well. Pay attention to other fine oboe players and they may inadvertently drop a great hint of great value about reed making.
Gillet, the famous French teacher, would turn away when he adjusted student reeds as he was perhaps concerned that they might learn too much and eventually challenge him.
I studied four years with a wonderful and valuable teacher, now passed on, but he did not seriously try to teach me how to make reeds. He made and sold about ten reeds a week to students and in one corner of his brain he could not deal with teaching much about reed making, for some reason. He had originally learned the W scrape from his teacher but switched to the American long scrape, but went back to the W scrape in his final years.
Get the J. Light book on reed making as it still seems to be as good or better than any other on the subject.
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Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2013-05-23 08:26
Thank you Susan.
When I started playing oboe and I get tired in my lips I just ask my first teacher if I should curled my lips around my teeth, but she told me that I should continue having my lips the way I do.
Since then I have always played with relaxed lips but after seen pictures in books often wonder whether or not I am doing someting wrong.
You also mention the thing I always have to remember: Keep that jaw dropped.
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