 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-03-07 18:34
It seems my d key keeps losing adjustment every few weeks. My hunch is the temperature change. Today I was in a very warm rehearsal hall (much hotter than my home) and half-way through the rehearsal I lost my d! I had to quickly adjust the d key adjustment screw tighter (which appeared to mostly solve the problem).... any suggestions to prevent this from occurring again? Is there something else going on here?
Mark
Post Edited (2012-03-07 18:36)
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Author: Loree BF51
Date: 2012-03-07 21:18
Baaaaaaad f resonance key! Just for that, you stay in your room for the rest of the day! it's much easier to be humorous, AFTER the problem is fixed. Regards.
R. Still former student
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-07 22:44
To check your F vent is working properly with just the lower joint on its own (as you don't need the bell or upper joint fitted to do this), hold down both RH 1 and 3 fingerplates as if you're playing forked F and then open and close RH2 (middle finger) and check the closure of the F vent pad along with the closure of the RH2 pad using a feeler gauge - they should both close together with the same pressure.
So often this adjustment goes overlooked by some repairers who don't see many full Gillet conservatoire oboes as the F vent is already being held closed while RH3 is open, but the F vent still has to close when both RH2 and 3 are closed together (lowering RH 3 opens the F vent and lowering RH 2 closes it). The result being anything below E either becomes unstable (in the low notes won't speak easily - gurgling below low E is another unrelated matter entirely) or it packs up completely from E downwards.
With the lower joint on its own, hold it in your left hand and close the fingerplates with your left hand fingers so you can check and adjust them with your right hand for better access of all the adjusting screws.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-03-08 12:13)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-03-08 11:58
Let me see if I understand you correctly.
I just did a paper test on the oboe. I compared the tension when then e key is closed and the tension when I then close the d key. The result should be equal tension under the pad (maybe very very very very slightly less with the d) ... Correct?
If this is right ... then this is a great way to adjust the pad ...
No problem with the d key!
Thanks
Mark
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-08 12:07
The pressure should ideally be equal, but if it's slightly less but still closing, then that's fine. It's difficult to get the pressure on all the main action pads exactly the same, but somewhere as near to that will be fine.
Also check the small F# vent key pad as well to be sure that closes with equal pressure when closed by RH2 and RH3.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-08 13:48
If your low notes suddenly pack up, check the RH main action rod screw hasn't come adrift - just had someone bring an oboe to me as they were having trouble with low D and below - as well as the F vent being out of adjustment the RH main action was moving about too much.
So check the rod screw first and make sure it's tight before doing any adjustments. This isn't the first time I've seen this - not just on oboes but also bass clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: huboboe
Date: 2012-03-09 03:33
Good advice, Chris. My broad rule of thumb is, as you descend the chromatic scale in the lower octave softly, with light finger pressure, the place where the response fails is the adjustments need to be looked at, both the activated key and anything controlled by it. The instrument doesn't like to respond below the point of the leak...
Robert Hubbard
WestwindDoubleReed.com
1-888-579-6020
bob@westwinddoublereed.com
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-03-18 23:36
Well,
The D key adjustment will not hold. I get the Oboe in adjustment and then ....a few days later, or 30 minutes later ... it is out of adjustment once more!
So something else is going on here. Any insights?
(If I would have known the problem was more serious ... I would have sought my repair persons).
To add to my sob story ... the Oboe went out of adjustment during the second half of a concert - before the beginning of Carmen Suite #1. Don't ask!
The conductor was not amused at all! I lost half my tone.
If any others want to share their sob stories ... please do. It might be therapeutic.
Mark
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-03-19 00:14
Mark,
You're playing a Marigaux, IIRC?
I have just about had it with my Covey. Same inconsistent s*** all the time these days.
But I am actually thinking it's just OBOES, not any particular oboe.
Any reason why we can't have a simple, stable, instrument?
Susan
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-03-19 01:57
Susan,
I play a Marigaux 901.
I never had this problem.
I think there is something more going on ...
Mark
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-19 11:01
Did a concert on Saturday just gone. Rehearsal in the afternoon went fine but the cork on my staple peeled off when I went to twist the reed round.
Then not long into the actual concert my reed was playing up by the second number - then I noticed it had a split in it and I didn't have my spares on me. So I borrowed a reed from the other oboe player to get me through the third piece but the tone was too bright and hard to control, so I dived out of the auditorium while the Jazz trio was setting up to play.
Ran back to the dressing room to get another reed going and went and sat down during the applause. Reed was too softand bright and now my low notes were playing up. I put it down to the reed but carried on.
Interval and time to find another reed, spent fifteen minutes finding one that worked but it was too firm and the low notes were still playing up so I stuck with the one I got earlier.
Second half of the concert and there were plenty of pp low Cs to play which didn't happen - I put it down to reed trouble.
Went home straight afterwards and decided to go through all my reeds to sort them out in order of good, too soft, too firm and too bright. Then just by clacking the keys closed, I could tell the low notes didn't have the usual resonance to them instead of the nice hollow sound they should make, so I did a feeler gauge test only to find the F vent wasn't closing!
I took the RH main action keys off a week or so earlier to do something but put them back on without checking the regulation as they usually go back on with no trouble, but not this time.
It doesn't take much for the F vent to go out of regulation and simply removing and replacing the keys put it out of adjustment.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-03-19 17:18
Well.
Of course the Oboe kept going out of adjustment .... it wasn't the f resonance key. It was the E flat key! I few weeks or so back - I must have over tightened the screw with the result the E flat pad was not sealing. Did the paper test and readjusted the screw and voila!
So with a faulty low D - check both the f resonance key and the e flat key.
Did I miss something else? Let me know please
I still will bring the Oboe in for a look by a repair person - if the 3 or so in the area (NYC) can be found and coached out of hiding!
Mark
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2012-03-19 21:30
'Any reason why we can't have a simple, stable, instrument?'
No - Just go back to the old days of open holes & get rid off lots of the keys that are considered 'essential', duplicated keys & links between them & ditch the cork pads - felt is much more forgiving. You'll save yourselves a fortune on instrumentst, repair costs & worry. Bring back the Howarth S2 I say!
Cynical old bassoonist & woodwind repairer.
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2012-03-19 21:42
.... & how many professionally trained oboists have I met who don't know what the banana key & that little curly one above the side G# do? (I don't either but do know how to regulate it all). Not to mention not realising that F#-G#, C#-D# or low B-C# trills are easily executed if the instrument is regulated correctly.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-19 22:08
That's the reason I fitted a LH C# key as I don't find the banana key to be of any practical use - it may work in theory, but in practice it's got a lot to be desired.
Depending what system oboe you've got, the curly key above the side G# is:
1 - On thumbplate systems it's a side G-Ab trill key (play G and trill it).
2 - On ring key conservatoire systems it's an Ab-Bb trill key (play Ab and trill it).
3 - On Gillet conservatoire systems it's a G#-A trill key (hold it down and trill LH finger 3).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Loree BF51
Date: 2012-03-19 22:37
Could you tell us what "playing up" means? Does it mean playing sharp or not responding or does it mean something else? Thanks.
R. Still former student
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2012-03-20 04:42
The motto of John Peterson at RDG Woodwinds in Los Angeles is "overkill is underrated." I have had him overhaul all three of my current instruments. My Lorée EH was "constantly going out of adjustment." But he did the "overkill" on it and now I've hardly adjusted a thing on it since. If you have lots of little problems, they all add up so that one adjustment ends up being the straw that breaks the camel's back. But that one adjustment is often not the real problem. Sometimes it's worth it to have a skillful repair person just do everything to an instrument now and then. You'd be amazed how many problems it solves!
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-20 15:49
"Playing up" back then meant not responding too well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-03-20 15:58
This only demonstrates the need for all oboist to be very mechanically knowledgeable. The more I learn the more empowered I am to address these issues.
This is especially important - since it is almost impossible to get service quickly.
For my part - the more I "tinker" and learn the better.
I told my conductor he has it easy - he's not an oboist!
There is so much to master.
Mark
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Author: OboeCraig
Date: 2012-03-20 23:24
Overkill -- I like it.
I took an oboe adjustment seminar with McFarland at John Mack oboe camp in 1980 or 81... can't remember any more.
He walked us through top to bottom starting with having us back off all the adjustment screws.
Then he worked us down the oboe in what he considered the best order of progress.
Then he made 2 suggestions:
1) Go home and repeat this whole process 10 times over 10 days. Point was by then we'd really have a good grasp on it.
2) Periodically do this whole thing to your oboe, because incremental adjustments can be really complex and introduce other problems.
Now, all these years later, I back off a few things but otherwise reconfirm good adjustment, still top to bottom. Leave f#-g# as the final adjustment, though.
Any time I notice a loose adjustment screw, I remove it and insert a few filaments of reed thread and replace the screw. Use care not to extend the thread below the bottom of the screw socket, so it does not move around and cause problems.
Screws or their sockets wear and eventually a loose screw will move around and cause problems. A few fragments of reed thread can really assist with this problem. And you can do the same thing to your eye glasses for loose screws with good results.
This technique does not work for loose mental screws, however. For that, I'd suggest a ball pein hammer and a quick 5 - 10 solid taps to the noggin.
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
-Craig
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-03-21 19:39
Update,
I had a bent rod ... (I now remember my pull cloth became tangled) the B,Bb, Eb mechanism. That's why it was hard to hold the adjustments.
Mark
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