 The Oboe BBoard
|
Author: cowtime
Date: 2012-01-21 00:13
I am an older player(58) who began oboe about four years ago. I currently play a bit with a community orchestra. In preparation for us beginning our spring rehearsals I've been practicing every evening after work and my eyes are suffering. They are red as can be and painful. When this happened this past week I remembered that right before our Christmas concert, when I was practicing daily, the same thing happened. I fully realize this is most likely something I am doing wrong ...
Has anyone else out there experienced this? any suggestions? I mentioned this to my eye dr last month at my annual exam and her only comment was "that's not good". and yes, I am searching for another ophthalmologist.
Post Edited (2012-01-21 00:37)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sylvangale
Date: 2012-01-21 08:14
Yep, oboes and high brass can build up pressure in the eyes, though it shouldn't be long term. A trumpet player playing a high note with too much pressure can pop an eye vessel, but they can still play while they heal.
You may have to play the oboe with less pressure and it may be your reeds are giving you too much back pressure. Outside of adjusting reeds, you could try playing with a more open mouth so there isn't so much pressure and make sure you're relaxed and playing from your abdominal muscles (your back shouldn't be involved).
If you're playing a lot of high notes, drop them an octave and maybe put in more rests and breathing spots so you can relax while you are playing. Let the band play when you don't need to (some band music is just poorly written for oboe and you need to take your own break).
Perhaps your eye doc can recommend eye drops to relieve pressure after playing as well.
♫ Stephen K.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JRC
Date: 2012-01-21 12:39
You should be asking this to your doctor. Find a better doctor who cares about your health not just a number of your visits. Also check your blood pressure. You are no longer a spring chicken. Make sure your body can handle the blowing into oboe at high internal air pressure.
By the way, have you learn to breath and generate air pressure with your stomach muscle instead of your chest? Taxing your chest muscles may have adverse side effects. Learn to make deep breath through your lower stomach. One of the instructors of Yoga and other eastern exercises may help.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-01-21 18:59
is it the eyeballs themselves that are red, or the lining?
Has any doc run some blood tests lately?
I agree with the breathing, and recommend you use a reed that responds easily with the minimum pressure possible, for now. And if the redness becomes Pain or even Discomfort, then Stop Playing for Now until you get some answers.
mary (RN)
GoodWinds
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cowtime
Date: 2012-01-21 23:55
Thanks to you all for the suggestions. I have been working on my breathing during this break..actually all I've been doing is scales and technical exercises to focus on my breathing, embouchure, etc.
I am changing ophthalmologists and will be checking into it from the medical angle. It is my eyes themselves that are red.
In thinking of reeds..I have been using new reeds that are harder blowing and had just gotten new reeds before the Christmas concert too, which is when this problem first surfaced, so I think I will try adjusting these to make them easier blowing for now.
I have not played in three days and am going to have a go at it tonight. We'll see what happens...
Thanks again.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jhoyla
Date: 2012-01-22 13:21
A couple of thoughts ..
1. The oboe is the highest-pressure wind-instrument in the orchestra. Starting the oboe in your mid-fifties, you should be sure you are doing it right because you REALLY don't want to cause yourself any damage. See Mary's comment above. Are you taking lessons from a pro?
2. It is VERY easy to get into a vicious circle of ever-increasing pressure on the oboe. If you squeeze/bite the reed to get a sound, you are choking the reed AND making the aperture smaller which makes it more difficult to blow, causing higher pressure to compensate.
3. How do you avoid this? You need to back off your embouchure pressure to give the reed free rein, and control the reed with the wind. Ironically, you can only achieve this if you have developed the lip-musculature and control to seal around the heart of the reed gently but firmly. Oh - AND you need reeds that are in perfect playing order - the right sized opening, and a perfect scrape.
Achieving this balance will take time. But be aware, always, that your aim is to just seal around the heart of the reed (close to the tip) and let the wind do the work. If you find yourself biting because your lips are tired - stop playing. If you find yourself blowing harder because the reed is closing up - stop playing, and adjust the opening. Be aware of the effort you are making at all times. Your abdominal muscles should be pushing against the resistance of the reed, with no "extra" back pressure from your throat or lips.
Which goes back to my first question - are you getting lessons from a pro? Without a good "reference feel" for how an easy-blowing reed should feel, how do you know if you are over-blowing or not?
J.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Old Oboe
Date: 2012-01-22 22:16
I agree with all of the above comments. Also be sure your glasses (if you wear them) are right. My lineless bifocals kill my eyes when playing but a nice pair of single vision lenses help me stay relaxed and well focused.
Linda
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: claire70
Date: 2012-01-23 19:04
Just out of interest, does anyone know if there is a link between oboe-ing and an eye disease like glaucoma, which I believe is to do with increased pressure in the eyes? Or is that a dumb question to anyone medical because they're two totally different things? I wouldn't have even thought of it if I hadn't read this thread.
I just wonder because I'm already at high risk for glaucoma later in life because it's genetic and ALL my family have it. So if oboe-ing increases the risk still further, well, that's not good... :-(
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JRC
Date: 2012-01-23 19:13
I do not believe oboe-ing produce greater pressure than having sex. If you can handle sex, you will likely do fine with oboe. I cannot comment on how bad or well you do with either one.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-01-24 06:38
glaucoma is increased pressure WITHIN the eyeball; I would suggest you just learn the danger signs for this and don't worry about any amount of oboe playing 'increasing the risk' for this.
IF you see signs of glaucoma in yourself, then seek treatment. PLAY AWAY.
It's NEVER a dumb question when you ask something medical!! I am so mad at the medical community for intimidating people to stop asking questions!
Asking is ALWAYS safer than guessing or not-asking or going to really questionable internet sites (like the Oboe BBoard... no, I'm kidding) for health information.
:)
mary, RN
GoodWinds
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2012-02-02 10:51
Not so much pressure on the eyes, but breath-support can increase sinus pressure. Sinus pressure will be felt in the eyes and cause redness... for me fibromyalgia (triggering muscle strain) will actually cause this. See if you have any allergies (often food-related like less-than-natural bread or highly processed milk products or overly engineered soy products or pesticide-rich berries).
I'd make sure your reeds are easy to play and don't restrict your blowing. How people perceive this might be contentious.
Most people in North-America will say that Philadelphia-scrape (American or long-scrape) produces easier reeds, but for the years that I used them, they gave me dizzy spells and I always felt like I was choking.
It is generally accepted (all over the world) that short-scrape (European) reeds are "harder", but I really find they accept my air volume and pressure more easily and respond to articulation more easily... I feel much more comfortable with them, especially when tied on big staples.
You might want to experiment with this and decide for yourself.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: valoboe
Date: 2012-02-02 14:57
I am an eye doctor and also learning oboe later in life. While it is true that straining at anything or heavy lifting or coughing can occasionally "pop a blood vessel", I do not believe that is what is causing your red eyes when you increase your time practicing. Whenever we are focussed and concentrating on something in front of us, our blink rate decreases SIGNIFICANTLY. Many people experience the same symptoms when they stare at their computer screen too long. It sounds like you are simply experiencing dry eyes. Try to think about blinking more. You can also try some artificial tears before you sit down and practice and again right when you are done. After a long day at work your eyes might already be getting on the dry side and the practice session is just enough to make them symptomatic.
As we get older our skin and eyes do get dryer and more sensitive especially in the winter when the humidity is very low. This is most likely your problem.
The other thing that might be causing some irritation and redness is if you are straining to see clearly. Make sure your glasses prescription is up to date. Almost everyone over 40 needs help with their near vision and musicians typically need a prescription for music that is about halfway between their distance and reading strengths.
If anyone out there is "popping blood vessels" in their eye from blowing into their instrument, contact your family physician. This is not an "eye" problem, and can indicate a serious medical problem if it occurs frequently.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: valoboe
Date: 2012-02-02 15:49
Straining, blowing hard into an oboe, or performing a valsava maneuver will not cause or increase the pressure of the fluid inside your eyes. These kind of activities will increase the blood pressure of the vessels in your head. Glaucoma is increased pressure of the fluid that is within the eyeball itself and this increased pressure actually inhibits the flow of blood into the vessels that supply the eye. Therefore, blowing the oboe, actually in theory would help more than harm an oboe player who also has glaucoma.
Keep playing the oboe. Don't worry about it causing or aggravating glaucoma. It might actually help if you have glaucoma.
As for glaucoma (as for high blood pressure), it is often a silent symptomless disease that is best caught early and is easily treated with medications. This disease is the primary reason that we all should have regular eye exams even if we are seeing clearly and are not experiencing any problems.
Conversely, a sudden drop in blood pressure can be dangerous for glaucoma patients. If the pressure of the eye fluid is too high (glaucoma), the pressure differential will prevent blood flow into the vessels that feed the eye. So besides having regular glaucoma tests and eye exams, regular blood pressure screenings and physicals are important and the two physicans should be made aware of each other and have the opportunity to work together and share their information.
Hope this info is helpful and puts your mind at ease about oboe playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jhoyla
Date: 2012-02-02 16:28
Thanks for this advice! Great to know we have an eye doctor in our midst.
Quote:
The other thing that might be causing some irritation and redness is if you are straining to see clearly. Make sure your glasses prescription is up to date. Almost everyone over 40 needs help with their near vision and musicians typically need a prescription for music that is about halfway between their distance and reading strengths.
I had a pair of middle-distance (~1 M) glasses made after my superb Zeiss multifocals turned everything into a blur in an orchestra pit setting. These turned out to be perfect for computer work as well (my profession), so I had another pair made up to the same prescription that look more "professional" and live in my work-tote.
Multifocals have their place, but an orchestra pit is not one of them.
J.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: valoboe
Date: 2012-02-02 17:42
Unless your eye doctor is a musician and plays the same instrument in a similar setting, he or she will never understand exactly what you need when you request "music glasses". It really isn't difficult to come up with a proper prescription for the "working distance" - simple math. The best thing a musician can do to help is to actually bring a sample of music and a music stand and demonstrate to the doctor what you need to see.
Because we all lose our ability to vary the distance we are able to focus as we get older, there will be compromises and each musician has different needs. My husband is a trombone player and has his music much further away and off to the side and is driven nuts when he can't clearly see the conductor's hands. I play clarinet mainly and am new to the oboe and am much pickier about being able to see all those little notes clearly. I sit close enough to the director that a little blur at distance isn't notieable at all. My husband uses less of an "reading add" or power than I do. He also uses bifocals and I prefer a weaker pair of reading glasses.
I can't tell you how many people voice their frustrations to me about their "presbyopia" (loss of ability to change focus from distance to near after age 45) once they find out that I am an eye doctor. Many times they wouldn't be so frustrated if their eye doctor just explained how the eye works and that this happens to everyone pretty much at the same rate. Also, once a doctor writes a prescription he or she should demonstrate and explain how the prescription will work for them. It would save all of us tons of time, energy, money and aggravation.
Tip for the day: Wearing reading glasses WILL NOT make your eyes worse or dependent on them!!!! You're eyes are gradually losing their ability to focus from far to near starting at age 12 no matter what you do. Once you experience clear comfortable vision, it is harder to accept strain and blur and that strain and blur is going to get worse no matter what you do anyway.
By the way, this is the first time I've ever responded to the oboe or clarinet bulletin boards. Usually I just read and learn. Its nice to get the chance to give back a little bit.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-02-02 18:10
<<By the way, this is the first time I've ever responded to the oboe or clarinet bulletin boards.>>
And what a wonderful debut you have made! Welcome, Valerie!
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: claire70
Date: 2012-02-03 20:15
Wow, fantastic answer about glaucoma, thanks! I will stop worrying and continue playing then :-D
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: teroboe
Date: 2023-01-29 23:24
Dear Val,
Your previous post is from several years ago, but I just stumbled upon it while researching eye pressure and oboe playing. Not sure if you are still active on this board, but I'll give it a try. Thanks for your advice about taking sheet music and a stand into the eye doctor--I plan to do just that in a few weeks.
I am middle aged (53), quite nearsighted and have had a bit of a wild ride with the vision in my right eye lately. (Retinal tear with laser treatment 8/21, vitreous hemorrhage with vitrectomy 9/22, erm vitrectomy 1/22, post-vitrectomy cataract removal 1/22.) I am currently taking drops for the increased pressure recovering from the cataract surgery.
Currently, I mostly play oboe just in the summer community band, but have played for over 40 years and have wondered lately if all the oboe playing was somehow related to my recent vision problems. From what I have read, it doesn't seem so.
I have followed both of my surgeons' advice about restricting activities after my surgeries, but haven't asked about oboe playing since it is not summer. (Since they are most likely not wind musicians, I am also not sure if they will understand what I am asking). I will be getting a new prescription from my regular eye doctor in a few weeks, post cataract surgery, so I appreciate the tip about taking in the music and saying exactly what I would like the middle distance glasses for.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
