 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: pliscapoivre
Date: 2011-12-30 14:41
Dear all,
I had a cold a few weeks ago, and I've just come down with a (very minor) sinus infection. I want to get back to playing tomorrow. A few questions for on this topic:
1. How long do germs live on reeds? (Of course one surely puts nasty germs on reeds before realizing one has a cold.)
2. How do you disinfect your reeds after having a cold? My teacher, Ronald Roseman, routinely dipped reeds in grain alcohol when sharing with us. I haven't been able to find the stuff in any state or country I've lived in since. Maybe you can offer some alternatives.
Thanks!
Plisca
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2011-12-30 15:09
I think you can go on playing those reeds with no problem. Germs don't live outside the body for long (viral or bacterial), and even if they are still present, you're body has antibodies built up to the infection. You can't get the same viral infection twice, but you can get the same bacterial infection again, but if it was minor, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have a problem now.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2011-12-30 15:19
Make sure they are completely dry between playing. And do not forget to clean the inside once in awhile. I use feather that works.
I use vodka to dip the reed in before I let someone else to try my reed or I try someone else's reed. I am sure you can use ethyl alcohol that would do the same. To me, Vodka taste better.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-12-30 16:02
just don't share the reeds with anyone else; your body will develop an immunity to that particular 'bug' so you can use them.
If it's a virus, the only effective 'killer' is diluted bleach, but as I said, as long as you don't share them, I wouldn't worry about it.
mary (RN)
GoodWinds
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-12-30 20:30
I would strongly suggest not sterilizing your reeds, at least not the good ones.
Else, how will you ever get more of them?
Ok, serious answer. I asked my doctor the same question.
He said, a few drops of chlorine in a glass of water is the best thing he knows to do.
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
-Craig
Post Edited (2011-12-30 20:33)
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-12-30 20:39
Re: JRC's vodka trick:
I think that is an effective solution for adults, but be careful if you are minor or doing it for a minor. Not a reed for a minor, but say, during a lesson and passing reeds around.
In USA at least, there could be seriously bad consequences.
Either way, rinse well with water afterward and play on.
(@ JRC, I sometimes do what you do but only if the orange juice has no pulp!
And I have no minor students.)
, eh..., get it?
Post Edited (2011-12-30 20:40)
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-12-30 23:02
I dip (immerse) my reeds into Hydrogen Peroxide for about 40 seconds
when I have finished playing. This process seems to make the reeds last a lot longer, as the Hydrogen Peroxide kills any bacteria that would tend to break
down the cell walls of the cane. No "biology projects" once the reed has be sterilized. After immersing the reeds in the H2O2, I apply an adjustable clamp made out of a standard paper clip across the center of the back of the reed, with the pressure point exactly in the center of the spine. This helps train the reed closed, so the next time you play you will not have to deal with a reed that has splayed open as it is drying. I find the paper clip clamps to be extremely helpful in the reed-making process as well.
Oboes.us
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-12-30 23:37
note re: viruses. they are technically not 'alive' so cannot be technically 'killed'.
I haven't researched whether hydrogen peroxide works to disable them or not, but I do know (from experience with viral illness) that the only environmental disinfectant recommended (in the U.S.) has been bleach. Which, when very dilute, will not harm you, and probably would not break down the cane fibers either, but my suggestion would be to definitely RINSE WELL in any case.
GoodWinds
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-12-30 23:38
bleach!! See response to heckelmaniac above...
mary (RN)
GoodWinds
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-12-31 20:07
Peter,
Any chance you could post a couple pics showing your paper clip technique?
That is a new one to me, and its been a while since I've heard any new ones!
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-12-31 21:20
Hi Craig,
I have been using the clip technique for years.
I just started making the clamps after becoming frustrated with new, rough scraped reeds that splayed open during the overnight drying before the next round of scraping. Now I use the clamps all the time. I have told others of this clamping technique, though I do not think this has caught on.
Some photos attached...
Oboes.us
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2012-01-01 14:05
Peter,
Thank you.
So, you say 'all the time'. What are you doing for casing the reeds to carry them places?
This is very innovative! And I am still a sufficient oboe nerd to get excited about this sort of thing.
Plus, this is giving me a really neat idea re: ehorn reeds... I will share that back with you in case it has $ value.... you should get the opportunity.
-Craig
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-01 14:42
Those clips look quite innovative. I am very new to oboe reed making (I'm on my 14th reed). I track all my scrapes in a log book to learn as quickly as possible. The other day I received some Stevens #2 and Pisoni Artist staples to try (two each). I tied them on day one. I may have even scraped the tip 100 times and heart and windows 10 times per quarter on that first day, and then clipped. The next day, soaked them for a short time, but was quite worried to discover that two of them leaked at the sides. I am teaching myself (along with the Lidet and Weber books and your help here on the boards), and I was so distressed I even tied english horn wire onto one of the reeds. Scraped 100 more times on tip and 10 on heart and windows per quarter. Day three I soaked again, and was happy to find that the reeds, when soaked, sealed the previous leaks, and I removed the wire from the one reed, and scraped a bit more that day.
I guess I'm writing this story to ask the question, are the clips essential in the reed making process, or are the just a nice thing to have, especially if you down't want to playtest an unfinished leaking reed?
Also, Hecklemaniac, I see you have the Chudnow "E" staple. How do you like them compared to the "S". I really enjoy their resonance.
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2012-01-01 15:20
Drew,
If possible post a couple pics of your reeds, after tieing, after initial scrape.
Are you shaping the cane yet?
If so, what is your shaper?
Assuming a decent gouge, shaping problems can cause leaks.
Also, when you tie, use a lot of thread tension, almost to the breaking point. That on the tied off thread and as you wrap. It is very important.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-01-01 15:57
Hi,
I have used this technique in the past .... and I forgot all about it!
Thanks for reminding me.
Once in a blue moon, I forget and make the mistake of over scraping a hard blowing and open reed and then ruin it; when all that is required is a couple of squeezes and maybe a paper clip!
Mark
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2012-01-01 23:01
I apply the paper clip clamps to the reeds after every stage of scraping.
Once a reed is finished, and still hovering around the reed desk, I still put the clamps ("keepers") on the reeds. After I am finished playing, I dunk the reed in H2O2 for about 40 seconds, then apply the clamp. If I play a concert, I simply put take the clamp off the reed, and stick it in a three reed case.
Once back home, I usually take reeds out of the case, then dunk in H2O2 and clamp and set out to dry. If you have a six reed case, you can usually transit three reeds with the clip still in place. One good aspect about a clamped reed- it does not roll off the desk onto the floor! And the surface of a clamped reed does not rest on the surface of the desk. I often sterilize the clamps as well.
I do not use the paper clips "as is." I bend the small prong upwards,
and then bend it back at a point about 1/8 of in inch high along the wire.
The clamp then is in two planes and can be infinitely adjusted to choose just the exact amount of pressure desired. For English horn reeds I use a larger pattern paper clip, having heavier gauge wire.
About the Chudnow staples- I am still new to this style, still experimenting with shapes and scrapes to suit. So far, I am tending to prefer the usual style natural cork/silver staples that will fit perfectly (exactly) on a recent Loree mandrel. Tom Hiniker is just completed a re-design of the usual staples having a much more "squashed" shape in the last few mm at the small aperture.
There is a new European (?) invention to keep reeds open instead of wire-
I believe it is called "Le Crab," though I am not sure. I will chase down the reference. Looks like Rube Goldberg may have had some influence in the design. I wonder whether so much extra weight and mechanism added to a tiny reed may have adverse affects though.
With best wishes to all,
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2012-01-02 00:55
The mechanical device that holds a reed open is called "LE CRABE"
Designed by Gabriel Bouche' ...
Oboes.us
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Author: pliscapoivre
Date: 2012-01-02 11:41
Hi all,
Oboe Craig, I hope you won't mind if I disagree with you about this:
"Also, when you tie, use a lot of thread tension, almost to the breaking point. That on the tied off thread and as you wrap. It is very important."
In my experience, using a lot of thread tension at the top of the reed chokes the sound. I think that the tension should be firm, but not almost to the breaking point.
Cheers,
Plisca
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Author: oboemoboe
Date: 2012-01-02 13:15
I add Sterisol to my water when I teach. With 20+ students, I'm bound to try a reed once in a while!
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-01-02 16:35
Sterisol quality control states that it 'disinfects' an item after soaking for ten minutes; I looked at the chemicals and they would be effective for bacteria -- but I'm not sure about viruses.
Having said that, using ANYTHING (vodka, sterisol, diluted bleach) would be better than nothing, if one is sharing reeds. Wiping down the keys if you're sharing an oboe is not a bad idea either, and don't forget the Essential flu-buster: washing your hands.
mary (RN)
GoodWinds
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2012-01-02 19:42
I don't mind constructive discussion/disagreement at all...:)
I'll clarify my technique a bit. The tension I refer to is what I do with F strength thread. Actually sometimes they do break while I am tying blanks. When I use FF thread, that same sense of tension does not come close to breaking the thread.
Also, I tie to close, as long as possible, which creates less tension between the blades. If I tie too much cane onto a tube, it will definitely become choked and other problems result such as intonation troubles, poor response, etc.
I use American Scrape, close to the Philly style, Brannon - X shaper, RDG gouger w/11 mm bed. On 46 mm staple, finished reeds are usually 68 - 68.5 mm when showing the greatest strength, best intonation, and best response.
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Author: pliscapoivre
Date: 2012-01-02 20:17
Hi Craig,
Thanks for the clarification! I have never used F thread before, so I'm sure that accounts for some of the difference between our styles.
I also tie long, but I leave the finished reed quite long too. I scrape American style, 46 tubes to play at 442, and finished reeds are usually 71-72. I use Ross and Innoledy gouges and Nagamatsu oB, Ruth -2, and Caleb shapes (depending on location, season, and mood).
The comments about sterilization are fabulous. Thanks, everyone.
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Author: bouche
Date: 2012-01-21 20:03
Hello,
I've seen you spoke of " "LE CRABE" designed by Gabriel Bouché ".
He was my great-grandfather.
Have you some pictures, text or article of his invention.
Thanks, and sorry for my english, I'm french.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-01-21 22:30
...and for a bit of trivia,
'bouche' means 'mouth' in French, hence, 'em-bouche-r', How fun is that?
Merci pour partager!
GoodWinds
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