 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-10-29 14:07
Hi everybody, I need some help in regards to High c-sharp fingering, as the 2 that I have found are both...awful, as in horribly horribly sharp and incredibly 'airy' , whereas the D just above is absolutely fine.
These are the two that I have tried, as recommended by ABRSM...:
TP 1/2 hole, x x | x o o
TP 1/2 hole, x x | x o x , C/C sharp key
where x is covered hole and o is uncovered, and TP is thumbplate.
I can get them in tune, but I have to slacken my jaw so much that wrecks every other note.
I am also open to the possibility that it is just my oboe being ridiculous, as on my Cor Anglais both the above fingerings are absolutely fine. In this respect it could be that it is because I'm using a Howarth S2 open-hole model, which could affect the tuning somewhat...
Any help would be much appreciated!!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-29 14:45
What make and model is your oboe (you've probably already mentioned that in a previous thread, but I've forgotten since then)?
Try these fingerings for top C#:
oxx|xooC
oxx|xoxC/C#
LH finger 1 is lifted off completely in both cases - you may want to adjust the opening of LH1 using the adjusting screw, so screw it down almost (but not completely) closed so there's a tiny amount of movement in it and see how it speaks. If it's still no good, then increase the opening by backing off the adjusting screw by degrees until top C# speaks cleanly.
Also check the high D and Eb to be sure they both speak easily.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-10-29 15:08
In referal to your question, its an open hole Howarth S2, which as i said in my first post, may affect tuning somewhat...
both of your suggested fingerings are an improvement, but still are, as in around +25 'whatever its calculated in'...so its no longer registering as a D, so its better in my book...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-29 16:39
Oops! Missed that bit!
The top notes will tend to want to go sharp on the majority of oboes, so you will have to do a lot of lipping down to get them down to pitch.
Try reeds with a slightly longer scrape or with a bit more scraped near the base of the scrape to bring the pitch down. How's the tuning on all the other notes below high A?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2011-10-29 16:59
There are two other options to use - depending on circumstances:
1. Use the C# trill key with 2nd Octave
2. Open C#: ooo|xoo + 2nd Octave - if you are thumbplate, you can leave off RH1 as well, but it is very unstable! If this is still too sharp, try adding RH fingers to bring the pitch down.
For fast passages the trill-key is acceptable even if it sounds a bit thin.
J.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-10-29 17:01
Tuning below high A is fine, although the G sharp below high A is terrible, although I think that may be something to do with the key, as when I try to play it, it sometime drops the octave, or it just becomes all whiny and tinny.
I'm just trying to get this problem nipped in the bud, as everything else is going swimmingly, but being hideously out of tune on C sharp and above is pretty annyoing...
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Author: wrowand
Date: 2011-10-30 14:44
Another fingering is:
2nd octave, oxx|xxo C
I like this one sometimes because it doesn't sound as covered as the standard fingering:
oxx|xoo C
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Author: rgombine
Date: 2011-10-30 17:41
Try oxx|xoR C. Where R is just the side of the ring mechanism pressed with the center of the key open.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-30 18:06
Thumbplate systems usually have a plain ring for RH3 (like a clarinet) instead of the split D#/E ring or perforated plate, so the above fingering can be done as oxx|xooC but with the adjusting screw on the C key screwed down so it closes the F# vent key completely.
Try any of the fingerings that involve using the low C or C# key and adjust the closure of the F# vent and middle fingerplate using the adjusting screw on the low C key touchpiece arm until the C# speaks cleanly.
You can also fill in and adjust the size of the aperture drilled through the RH2 fingerplate with beeswax - they're usually somewhere between 1.5 and 2mm depending on when it was made, but using wax you can alter it easily.
Does your S2 have an open or closed standing forked F vent? Thumbplate systems usually have an open standing F vent that fully closes along with RH2, but some S2s were built with closed standing F vents that only opened when RH3 is closed when forked F was being played (and closed again by RH2 as they do on S3 and S5 and most conservatoire system oboes).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2011-10-30 20:23
Chris, does the S2 have a C# trill key? Anyhow, "open" C# should work, with RH1,2 and/or 3 for stabilization/pitch adjustment.
@Loliver, we posted simultaneously, so you may have missed my previous post:
Quote:
There are two other options to use - depending on circumstances:
1. Use the C# trill key with 2nd Octave
2. Open C#: ooo|xoo + 2nd Octave - if you are thumbplate, you can leave off RH1 as well, but it is very unstable! If this is still too sharp, try adding RH fingers to bring the pitch down.
For fast passages the trill-key is acceptable even if it sounds a bit thin.
J.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-10-30 20:46
Thanks to all replies so far!!!
To clarify, my oboe is open hole thumbplate. Will upload picture
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-30 22:44
S2 oboes do have the C# trill key (for LH3) which does give a good 'emergency' top (or middle) C#, but the tone quality isn't particularly great as is the case with most oboes, so only best used for trills.
Thumbplate oboes usually have the standard perforated fingerplate with the diamond aperture for LH1, then a ring for LH2 (and sometimes a covered fingerplate) and a plain tonehole for LH3 (like a clarinet) - often fitted with a raised chimney and decorative metal ring to make it feel like the LH2 ring key. Sometimes a covered fingerplate is fitted to LH3 (as on S20 oboes) but it's not linked to any other part of the mechanism.
On the lower joint they will either have a ring key for RH1 or a covered fingerplate, then the usual perforated fingerplate for RH2 and a ring key or sometimes a covered fingerplate for RH3.
The only linkages between the upper and lower joints are the F#-G# linkage from RH1 and the C-D trill key linkage - Bb and C are produced by lifting the thumb off the thumbplate or using the side key (in the same place as the side G# on conservatoire system oboes) for trills.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-11-09 19:14
Thanks for everyone's replies!
Unfortunately, my oboe got kinda... damaged today. By damaged I mean wrecked, due to it being in its case in a hold-all, with a cor anglais in its case, slipping off bus seat, oboe case coming open, unbeknown to me, and it generally getting destroyed by a very heavy cor case crushing it... basically, 2nd octave key bent so much it is always pressing down C# trill key, and more importantly, the upper joint tenon being smashed off.
Long story short, I am currently without oboe at all, and have to go and get a repair person to quote how much it would be, if at all possible, to reattach a grenadilla tenon...
But anyways, thanks for all the info!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-11-09 22:54
OUCH!
Is your oboe insured? Hopefully it is as that at least should take the sting out of having the tenon replaced and all the other repair work needed doing to put it right again.
Your best bet is sending it back to Howarth to do the repair work on as they have the right size reamers which will need to be used when replacing the middle tenon to make sure there's no step in the bore were the join is and the bore taper through the tenon is correct.
I've only ever had the middle tenon break on one oboe, but that was a B&H Regent and I didn't enjoy playing it anyway, so it wasn't a great loss. But if that was to happen to my kingwood S5 or my Marigaux d'amore or cor, then I'd definitely be gutted!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-11-10 07:52
Yes, it is insured, thank goodness.
I'm going to have to go to a repair person today, as my insurance company want me to get a quote for repair to see if it is more economical to repair it or to replace it, but considering that S2s are not made anymore, and that the top joint is in two pieces, its a bit of a silly thing for me to have to do.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-11-10 08:28
Find out from Howarth what the cost of a new S2 is if they were to make one as a special order. I've only seen two S2s made since 1998 (and one S3 which I finished myself for a local player) so they can probably still be made to order.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-11-10 08:49
I don't know if the middle tenon can be repaired, as its kind of been torn out, rather than a clean slice, a tear which goes up to the G# hole. I've also just seen a hairline crack going up from the tenon to the pillar that the G# key is on.
As I've got to find out how much it would cost to repair, if at all possible, I'm wondering if I actually need to show it to a repair person, or if I can just ring and explain, as it is really in a terrible way...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-11-10 11:59
If the tenon can't be repaired considering how badly damaged it sounds in your description, then you'll probably have to get a brand new top joint made for it - that too is something Howarth can do and then transplant your existing keywork onto it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-11-10 12:05
Yes...that could be an option. although the 2nd octave key would need to be replaced due to damage.
I'm just getting annoyed as I have a concert in a few weeks, so need to have an instrument as soon as, but I can't get a hire instrument on my insurance until the form comes through from them, and then I send it back, and then they confirm it does need to be repaired. Currently having to transpose the oboe part onto Cor if the other oboe is at law lectures, or having to play the french horn part, ironically both the 'horns' are in F.
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Author: pliscapoivre
Date: 2011-11-11 07:58
Maybe a shop would be willing to lend you an instrument and post-date the statement. If you get the right, understanding person on the phone or in person, it's worth asking! Best of luck.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-11-11 13:56
I was thinking about just hiring one off my own back from Howarths in London, as it could be another couple of weeks before anything positive happens. I'm still waiting for the insurance form, then I have to take the instrument to a repairer to get a quote or whether or not it is repairable, and then I have to send the form back, and then it will take up to three days for processing.
Annoyingly, I do have another oboe, a Buffet Artiste, but its for sale in a music shop.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-11-24 11:16
Just an update- getting new oboe!....some point next week.
I'm getting a Howarth S45C Dual System, super excited!!
Hopefully it'll come before my concert next friday, but probs not, so super fun transposition...
And ironically, my Buffet Artiste oboe was sold just as I was considering taking it off sale for a week...but now I don't need to!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-11-24 13:08
Take special care playing it in at this time of year, as well as the conditions you'll be playing it in during the winter months as you don't want to subject it to wide temperature and humidity fluctuations while new as that increases the risk of cracking. I realise it's not easy as the cold weather is setting in, but do try to avoid playing it in cold bandrooms, halls and churches and for any periods over 30 minutes when it's brand new.
There should be a care leaflet with it which explains how to play it in, but you can download that from Howarth's site if you want to read up on it sooner.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pliscapoivre
Date: 2011-11-24 13:30
Have a wonderful time with it. I'm happy for you that you had such a positive outcome in all ways! Super.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-11-24 15:29
If it does come before concert, concerning what Chris P has said, I'm tempted not to play it, as its in a church... although last time we played there it was freezing, and within ten minutes of a dozen storage heaters being turned on, it felt like an aga!
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