 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-07 12:32
The 2 most priciest oboes with the longest wait times.
Has anyone, after the long wait and got their oboes, was disappointed with their Hiniker or Laubin ? If so, what was it that made you not like it ?
Conversely, most people ended up loving it and would never part with their Hiniker or Laubin. But, we never here from those who were not happy with their oboes.
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2011-04-07 15:08
I'm sure Cooper will have something to say here, as he has sold off his Hiniker oboe. I'm sure that his reasons for letting it go are completely valid, as oboe preference is, ultimately, a purely subjective thing. I have also spoken with the person who has purchased Cooper's old Hiniker, who is a talented principal oboist and, now that he has "discovered" Hiniker oboes, is going on Tom's wait list for another one.
Another friend of mine has recently sold her Hiniker oboe. This was one with a clear acrylic top joint. She felt it did not project well enough, and instead went with a Buffet Greenline. In my opinion, the Greenline is one of the worst oboes out there, with regard to projection -- but, again, this is all subjective.
I have had both "die-hard" Loree and Laubin players try one (either one) of my Hinikers, and state that they would have no problem trading their current oboe for one of mine. Some are now on Tom's list. Others have not particularly cared for the Hinikers, for one reason or another.
For me, I can only say that I believe we all sound the way we sound DESPITE the equipment in our hands. Some horns simply make it easier for us to find our voice, but find that voice we will, regardless. For me, it's Hiniker who has cracked the secret code of the perfect oboe sound, combined with technical practicality. In other words, for me it is easier to sound and play the way I want on a Hiniker, vs. any other oboe. Still, I have found minor (correctable) voicing issues with both of my instruments. I have had to "tweak" every horn I've ever owned, so this is no big deal to me.
So, I'm not saying that Hiniker oboes are MAGICAL, necessarily.
For me they are.
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2011-04-07 15:37
By the way, I should also note with regard to your query that Tom Hiniker's "base price" for a grenadilla oboe with silver keys is lower than Loree. Which means it is much lower than Laubin.
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-07 19:07
What does a "base price" oboe mean ? Does it mean a student version ? Or is it just the type of wood and metal keys ? Or does it mean, Hiniker specializes in the Au keys and snakewood or cocobolo ?
Why are people trading their Hiniker ? Cooper for eg, who kept his Loree instead ? Is it because he had it to long and got tired of it. Or is it merely a financial thing, prices are good now for an used Hiniker. The resale is undoubtedly good for the Hiniker vs Laubin ?
It would be nice to hear from a Laubin fan. It will be hard to find someone who has both, but if there is one out there, please share your thoughts.
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2011-04-08 03:50
By "base price" I mean the selling price for a grenadilla oboe with silver plated keys. I believe Tom includes all of the following with a "basic" oboe: All grenadilla with PET plastic partial liner in top joint (to just below half-hole), all standard "French Conservatory" key work, including "Philadelphia" high D facilitator, plus optional third octave, forked F & low B-flat resonance.
He charges extra for things like: alternative materials (i.e. synthetic/acrylic, or wood other than grenadilla), extra key work (i.e. left-hand "long" C#), and plating other than silver. This is all based on his own cost differential. For woods softer than grenadilla (like cocobolo or other rosewoods), Tom will line most of the tone holes with ABS to help ensure against crack damage. Most of the cost difference is in the additional man-hours necessary to produce the instrument, not in the material itself.
Tom does not make a student horn. Nor does he "specialize," per se, in exotic woods or gold plate. He has these materials available, and will make your oboe according to your particular needs/requests.
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2011-04-08 03:50
Yup,
I don't think Hiniker's are any pricier than a Loree. If you're seeing a high price, it's probably not from Tom, and probably just due to the rarity.
My Hiniker was a great instrument, but just not for me. I would say that while you might not have compared the two makers in terms of how they play, I'd say the two are closer in feel than a Hiniker would compared to a Loree regarding how the instrument takes the air.
I could have continued playing on the Hiniker and been happy, but I had bigger issue with the mechanism and construction of the instrument, which I found difficult to keep functioning properly.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-08 04:27
Thx for the clarification Jmarzluf. Is his wait time is as long as the Laubin, longer or shorter ? Laubin quotes 7 years, that was in 2010...
What kind of wood did you end up buying ? And did you find any sound differences compared to a grenadilla ? On your site, were your audio samples played on the Hiniker ?
Cwright, I am having a little trouble deciphering what you are saying here,
"I'd say the TWO are closer in feel than a Hiniker would compared to a Loree regarding how the instrument takes the air."
which 2 are you saying, Laubin and Loree ?
Aside from the mechanicals that u didnt like, was there anything else you didnt like about the Hiniker ? For eg how it plays etc ? How you need to maintain the instrument more than usual ? Or make reeds specially and tailored for the Hiniker ?
Le Hautbois Americain
Post Edited (2011-04-08 04:30)
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2011-04-08 04:56
Le Hautbois Americain (ha, ha!),
I believe most of these questions can be answered by revisiting the "Hiniker Oboes" thread, here on the bboard, where I talk about my two Hiniker oboes in some detail. If you still have questions, let me know. Tom's wait is currently 3 years, more-or-less. Punctuality is not his forte. I say, you get what you are willing to wait for!
Not to speak for him, but I think Cooper was saying that he believes Hiniker to be closer to Laubin, rather than Loree, in playability.
Although I believe Tom based his oboe design, at least originally, on some older Loree examples, I feel he has succeeded in creating an entirely unique animal. To compare it with any other make is a little like comparing apples to oranges -- or Asian pears. That having been said, I'm sure you will find certain qualities in common if you compared a Hiniker oboe with either of the "L's."
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-08 05:01
JMarzluf, was your audio samples done on the Hiniker ?
It has probably been a while that we discussed the Hiniker, can you give me the link ?
3 year wait is not bad, may consider putting my name on the list too....
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2011-04-08 05:43
Geez, I sure am bad at grammar.
"I'd say the TWO are closer in feel than a Hiniker would compared to a Loree regarding how the instrument takes the air."
What I meant was that the Hiniker feels more like a Laubin than it would feel like than a Loree.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-08 11:28
Jmarsluf:
I took a re-listen to your audio samples. They were great recordings. But, frankly, I thought all the recordings came from the same oboe.
Was it a cocobolo or a grenadilla Hiniker that you played on ? I think u said in the past thread that u had 2 Hinikers, one grenadilla and cocobolo.
Cjwright:
In the previous thread you said, "the cocobolo Laubin was the best oboe you ever played". Appreciate if you can share what u thot the cocobolo Laubin is the best oboe ? Seems like you are the one of the few that has playing experience on the Hiniker and Laubin.
Maybe, I dont know what to listen for. I re-listened Jmarsulf audio samples, or the recordings didnt do the Hiniker justice, I seriously thot the recordings came from the same oboe. I could not discern a difference. I am thinking the player is the one who can feel the difference....the listener may not ??
Post Edited (2011-04-08 12:01)
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2011-04-08 14:00
I think the simplest and most definitive answer to whatever it is you are trying to discover can be found in this statement that Jonathan made earlier in the thread:
"For me, I can only say that I believe we all sound the way we sound DESPITE the equipment in our hands. Some horns simply make it easier for us to find our voice, but find that voice we will, regardless."
The reason you thought all of his recordings were made on the same oboe is because they all sound like HIM. Picking a new instrument is not about finding a DIFFERENT sound, it is about finding the instrument that makes it EASIEST to sound like *YOU*, that's all. He clearly feels that it is much easier to produce HIS particular sound (and a lovely sound it is!) on a Hiniker oboe, and I would imagine that also translates into a heightened sense of joy playing the instrument.
I myself am going to get on the list, because I am very taken with his craftsmanship, and while I have no doubt that I would absolutely love the oboe, in the event that I didn't, much like with a Laubin, there will be NO shortage of people willing to try it out and buy it. It's a win-win situation, really!
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-08 14:45
Cocobolokid:
Are you going to get on the list for a Cocobolo like your moniker suggests ?
I agree with you that the "voice" will sound very much the same irregardless the make of the instrument.
I have had oboes that were terrible for 3rd octave notes and others work like a charm every time. Question is playability, the ability to go from high notes to low notes and vice versa without having to do much work with the embouchure or whatever that needs to be done to make the transitions smooth, eg 2nd octave C to D transition or 2nd octave C to any other high note, is sometime problematic.
Now, for the past few years, I have been looking for a new "voice" hoping the transition to the Laubin or Hiniker will help me in my quest.
Post Edited (2011-04-08 14:48)
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2011-04-08 14:51
CocoboloKid, I am definitely going to use that explanation one day - well said!
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2011-04-08 14:54
I understand your point of view - that our "sound" is reflection of our conception of Oboe tone and color.
However, I have to take exception with the statement the Oboe does not significantly add to that tone production.
My Marigaux 901 Oboe does not sound like a Loree or a Loree Royale or a Laubin- period!
There is a Marigaux sound.
My teacher bought a Marigaux as well as another student - and although each instrument has its personality - there definitely is a common tone conception.
If you asked what is the difference between a Marigaux and a Loree - I would say the Loree has more of an edge and a less fluidity. The Marigaux has warmth and the notes in the scale are well connected - fluid.
As I have mentioned in previous posts - the tone from the Marigaux radiates from the bell - rather than the top joint which gives it a very focused rich coffee core sound.
I assume the Hiniker oboe has it own conception of tone production.
Mark
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2011-04-08 15:30
I don't think I said that different instruments don't produce different inherent sound qualities at all, or at least I certainly didn't mean it to be taken that way. The gist of my post, and I believe Jonathan's as well, is that a musician must find the instrument that fits their sound concept and makes playing they way they want to play as easy and enjoyable as possible. I absolutely agree that a DM bore Lorée, for instance, sounds quite different from an AK bore or a Rigoutat or a Patricola.
For example, I personally play on a Fossati, and while it is a BEAUTIFUL instrument that I greatly enjoy, I find that it is a bit too much effort to darken and thicken the sound to my preference, as the instrument itself inherently wants to be light and perhaps a bit nasal...what I think of as the old French sound. I prefer something much more Teutonic in sound, and would love to try a Moennig or a Ludwig Frank or a Puchner to see if those oboes might give me what I'm looking for with less effort.
Much the same thing with the Hiniker/Laubin/Loree situation...diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, as they say!
Et oui, Hautbois Francais, I'm ordering one in cocobolo, bien sur!
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2011-04-08 17:00
Well, "Kid,"
You've done a great job of reiterating my point precisely (and kudos for the use of "Teutonic" in a non-derogatory statement -- my German roots are tingling).
Yes, different oboes get different sounds. You pick (perhaps consciously, perhaps not) the SOUND you want, and then you find an oboe to match. Of course, sound isn't everything, as an oboe must also satisfy technical necessity as well. Pitch, technical "fluidity," durability, timbral consistency, projection (perhaps), etc., are all attributes of a well put together "oboe-as-machine." I have had to say "no" to oboes that I thought sounded great (or, more to the point, allowed me to easily sound the way I wanted to), based on mechanical considerations.
I'd love to hear more from Cooper on the difficulties he had with his Hiniker, with regard to the mechanism. I have had no such difficulties myself. I am, however, quite accustomed to performing adjustments to an oboe's mechanism on a frequent basis. I find the Hiniker mechanism to be a literal work of art, and the most efficient "oboe machine" I have yet encountered. But now I'm sounding outright biased. Blame not a man in love!
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-08 23:02
Cocobolokid:
I remember someone saying Cocobolo is a soft wood, would that make it more susceptible to moisture ? Hence the need lining etc ? Are you getting the keywork in gold ? How long is the wait that you are expecting ?
I saw some pictures on another thread, the Hiniker is a very beautiful piece of work.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2011-04-09 17:41
Well, I personally think the key castings are messy and look sloppy. The biggest issue for me was the edges of the hinge tubes seemed to have burrs, because they would consistently cut into the main rod causing deep grooves and rust. I'd oil it religiously, sand the main rod down, but to no avail. I had several well respected repairmen go over every edge of the hinge tube to try to buff out the burrs but to no avail. During my two years, I had three main rods for the upper joint made for it, and I still had constant problems with the C-A-Bb sticking due to the grooves/rust. Caused at least three major mistakes in concerts. Constant problems. I need an instrument that I know won't make me mess up, as I do that enough on my own.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-04-10 01:35
The two Lorees and the one Laubin(late 90s) I have all sound a little different from each other and are each first class. The newer Loree is a little brighter than the older Loree.
The two(1984 and 2005) Lorees are comfortable with the same reeds(RDG -2) but the Laubin works better with a slightly narrower reed to avoid flatness at the bottom end. Tuning is quite good on all of them(440).
The Laubin and the newer Loree almost never need adjustments while the older Loree needed more frequent adjustment, possibly due to poorer condition, but it is better after a recent overhaul. Silver plating on the older Loree is worn but it could be touched up by spot plating.
Laubin did not use a 3rd octave key and I've closed down the 3rd octave key on the newer Loree so that I don't hit it accidentally. It doesn't seem to be needed for what I do.
No Hinnikers yet.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2011-04-13 06:07
Wes:
Was the laubin the standard grenadilla with silver keys ?
What did you like about the Laubin vs the Loree in terms of how it sounds and how it played? And what did u not like ?
U said it sounded different ? Was the difference to your liking or not ?
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-04-16 00:06
New prices for Hiniker oboes:
(All oboes have left C#, Philadelphia high D, 3rd octave key,
quadruple silver plate. Half length P.E.T. polymer bore liner on upper
joint of all Blackwood and Cocobolo oboes)
African Blackwood $7700
Acrylic $8200
Cocobolo $8700 (All but the lowest 5 tone holes have
polymer inserts)
Gold plating is an additional $900.
The wait list is now about 90 names long at the moment.
I should have a new Hiniker/Ferillo "B series" clear cast Acrylic oboe with me at the
IDRS convention.
Oboes.us
Post Edited (2011-04-16 21:03)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2011-05-11 22:55
Well,
I just had a chance to play a Hiniker Oboe.
My teacher just purchased one.
Here's my two cents:
The Oboe similar to my Marigaux is very reed friendly.
I produced a rich complex sound with a very lightly scraped reed - a reed that on a Loree would sound thin.
So - The sound is built into the instrument.
The instrument has a buoyant tone with a very stable scale.
It has a friendly - playful character to its sound. It is a mobile and flexible instrument. The scale is fluid and connected.
However, it does not have the "hot dark chocolate warmth" of my Marigaux.
Does it stand out as something - "exceptional". For me no.
It has its personality - so to play a Hiniker is personal preference.
A good choice - depending upon your conception of the Oboe tone/character.
I will stick to my Mariguax.
Mark
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-05-12 16:26
your answer carries the 'personal opinion' that marks a true expert!
Too often we presume to state our opinion objectively, when it is (or should be) OBVIOUS to anyone reading this board that the oboe is quite a personal matter; that some folks just don't get along with Loree oboes, for example, and prefer other makes.
Yet you ventured to give a description, which (for the person asking) can be VERY VERY helpful.
And if anyone out there is giving away their unwanted Hiniker, Laubin, or pro-level Marigaux, I'm sure I can find such castaways a home... 
GoodWinds
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-05-12 16:50
GoodWinds wrote:
> And if anyone out there is giving away their unwanted Hiniker,
> Laubin, or pro-level Marigaux, I'm sure I can find such
> castaways a home...
Possibly even here (me!). But I still want to go to IDRS 2012 and/or Europe to try out everything... esp. Fosatti which no one seems to know much about.... and of course the Ludwig Frank Gebr. Monn. AM!!!
But I'm happy to hear about the preference for Marigaux. Right now, it is a serious contender.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-05-12 18:26
Hi Hautbois Francais!
My standard grenadilla Laubin has a fairly "dark" beautiful sound, but I believe that it projects well. Response wise, it gives one the feeling that this is a first class oboe but I don't know how to describe that. It never had a leak, which is helped by having lined toneholes in the upper joint.
The 1984 Loree I have is a fairly "sweet" sound and a little bit dark, while the 2005 Loree is a little brighter and yet very "substantial". The newer Loree has a thicker body which contributes to the sound. Reeds for the Lorees are a little easier to make, for me, than the Laubin.
Non of these oboes have unstable F2s or other notes, but the older Loree tended to have sharp E2s before I learned how to make stable reeds.
Good Luck!
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2011-07-01 00:59
Hi,
Here's an update on my teacher's Hiniker Oboe experience.
He seems now to prefer the Hiniker - since the scale is more stable than his Marigaux 901. He also appreciates the elasticity of the upper register - where the Marigaux tends to be more limited.
I still fee the Marigaux 901 has a more "chocolate"sound; however, I do appreciate the ability to have a freer more expressive upper register and a more stable scale!
He also feels he can produce a wider range of tone color with the Hiniker.
Mark
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2011-07-01 10:47
My teacher is Terry Keevil DMA - Stony Brook NY.
http://terrykeevil.com/
Mark
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Author: maplereed
Date: 2011-07-03 22:42
Hello all:
My current oboe score - Laubin 2 Hiniker 3
Well, that is probably temporary. I will have to let a Hiniker go if I buy #3. Not putting it out there at this time because I have someone picked out for it. Kind of like adopting out a loved pet. Or maybe I can't let it go. Agonizing....
The 3rd one is the newest - clear acrylic Hiniker with Loree B bore copy. Yes, it is amazing. It will be giving its premiere performance in Benaroya Hall in Seattle this month. I will be there. Oh, yeah, I will be playing it..
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2011-07-12 21:44
Hi,
I had my Oboe lesson today. Here's an update on Dr. Keevil's experience with the Hiniker vs Marigaux 901.
In an orchestral setting, for example, performing the Brahm's Requiem; the Hiniker had good focus and projection and it is the preferred Oboe.
Yet, in more intimate chamber setting - my teacher prefers the Marigaux 901 because of it warmth and resonance. This is also the feed back he has received from his fellow musicians.
Mark
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2011-07-13 19:37
Okay folks,
I'm here in Washington. I've tried the ice princess owned by Maple Reed, and tried Peter's snakewood. I can attest that the ice princess is awesome, but #@$@#@% is the Snakewood amazing. The single best oboe I ever played. And Peter says, "Over my dead body..." and I think he does mean DEAD. Hm...
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-07-14 01:26
Comes from Surinam, formerly known as French Guiana.
Heavier than grenadilla. Amazingly dense- impossible to see grain lines.
One of the rarest of all exotic tropical woods. Tree population is measured terms in one tree per every 10 square kilometers.
Untreated, extremely prone to cracking.
Crack free pieces large enough to make oboes nearly impossible to find.
Oboes.us
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-07-14 23:09
Thank you. Any ideas why the sound would be so interesting...or interesting to our friend Cooper?
Do you know of any recordings or youtubes featuring that wood?
Sorry I missed meeting you at IDRS... perhaps another one?
I'll be the good-looking , shaved-head, well-toned guy in shorts and sandals...:) Well, given enough time. Hopefully, a year will do the trick, again.... sheesh...:(
Post Edited (2011-07-14 23:09)
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-07-21 02:24
Hi Jonathon,
The Snakewood oboe plays ever better than its appearance would intimate.
For instance, playing the likety-split solo from Rossini's La Scala da Seta,
it is nearly impossible to "chip" any note, no matter how fast you play-
all the notes come out "round' and fully formed...
Oboes.us
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Author: JMarzluf
Date: 2011-07-21 03:44
Hey Peter!
I meant no offense by mentioning your beautiful instrument's unique aesthetics! I would love to compare it to my own Hinikers, side by side. You are indeed a lucky man to have what I am sure is one of the finest oboes in all the world. I'm sure though, with the right reed, I could get your reptilian super star to "chip" a note or two -- I have special skill in that regard!
Jonathan
http://www.marzlufreeds.com/
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Author: maplereed
Date: 2011-07-30 03:46
Yes, folks, I am the proud owner of the "Ice Princess" - a beautiful instrument. Large and in charge for sure.
Post Edited (2011-07-30 03:48)
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