 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-07 10:23
Hello all,
I am about to receive my first oboe with a left hand F (a Marigaux 901 - very excited!) I primarily play in concert bands, so I am well versed in notating the Fs which are required to be forked (we use 'F' to mark them, I assume that is universal?), but I was wondering if there is a standard way of marking left F, or what methods others have of marking it? I had access for a few weeks to a pro Howarth which also had a left F, and in a short space of time I could see the need to mark left F and forked F differently (especially in those notorious F-Eb-Db passages so often found in band music!)
Thankyou!
Rachel
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-07 10:56
There aren't any standard rules as to how you'd mark the forked, cross/key and LH F key fingerings in so long as you know which one you mean at any time. Everyone will have a different idea, but provided it does the job that's all that matters.
I usually put an X over the cross/key F fingering, an L over the LH F and a fork symbol over the forked Fs. For Ebs, you can use L or R above them (likewise with R over the G#/Abs where you'd use a RH G#/Ab).
You can also use harmonic F (top line F) by playing low Bb with the 1st 8ve key open (and marked with an O above them).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-08-07 13:24
I do pretty much what Chris says -- the left F is "L", and the forked F is a squared "u" (much like the symbol used in my Prestini method book). But I make no mark for the right-hand F -- so if there is no mark, it's just the standard F, and anything that varies from that gets a mark.
I will have to try the harmonic fingering that Chris suggests. Never heard of it before. (My original teacher was a stickler for using PROPER fingerings).
Susan
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-07 14:11
It's a good upper register F for blasting out loud!
Then the low B fingering + 1st 8ve gives F#, C+1st 8ve gives G, C#+1st gives G#/Ab, D+2nd gives A and Eb+2nd gives Bb.
Forked F is always such a duff note on oboes - I often find I tend to open the Eb key to further vent it in the upper register so it's not so stuffy. Would've been very different if the Boehm or Sax fingered oboe was accepted, but since tradition has been firmly adhered to (and not for the best), we have to put up with these duff notes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-07 14:47
Thanks for sharing everyone. I play clarinet as well, so I will probably stick to the L over the left hand Fs, as it follows the same markings I use on clarinet.
I am more than happy to use my own system, but thought I would check so that I don't get strange looks from any oboist who happens to share my music!
The most frustrating thing I find about forked F is a lot of our young oboists use it as standard here, even though they all receive individual lessons with an oboe teacher in addition to band. Most are on left F oboes and if not, are not taught to vent with Eb.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-07 15:18
Basic conservatiore system oboes (eg. Yamaha and Selmer/Bundy) often don't have a forked F vent (opens when RH3 is closed but while RH2 remains open), so the Eb key has to be opened to vent it in both registers.
Most thumbplate systems have a much simpler open standing F vent that opens/closes along with RH2, but this open standing F vent makes the Bb iffy on conservatoire system oboes, so they have an arrangement where the F vent remains closed until RH3 is closed and RH2 is open - the vent closes when RH2 is closed.
But with this closed F vent arrangement (which can be found on some thumbplate system oboes such as some Howarth S2s fitted with it), problems tend to arise when repairers who don't often work on conservatoire system oboes can see the F vent is opening/closing properly along with RH3, but don't check its closure along with RH2 (while RH3 is being held down) so it can remain slightly open from E downwards causing all the RH notes below E (in both registers) to pack up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-08-07 16:48
Curiously enough, on my Covey, the forked F usually makes a very acceptable tone, even without the addition of the Eb (which my original teacher forbade me to use). But depending on the reed (as far as I can tell, it's the reed that makes the difference), my regular F can be just terribly wonky -- all the same things that most people associate with the forked F. It's a sometime thing, but by and large, my instrument seems to have it backwards.
Susan
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-08-07 18:58
Rachel,
Welcome to the Marigaux family, I also play a Marigaux 901.
It is a lovely instrument - enjoy.
I also use a"L" to indicate the side F.
Mark
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-08-08 01:20
If you're lucky, your Marigaux will have a forked F that is almost indistinguishable from your regular F. That's the case with my horn. Makes me lazy!
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-08 03:19
Up until now I have been playing on an old Cabart (recently stolen from my car) - nice oboe but no left F. And forked F, despite having the resonance key, was tragic, so I am used to playing standard F whenever possible to avoid the horrors! Venting with Eb improved the tuning but made the note horribly bright.
I am playing on a Yamaha 211 at the moment - which will become my outdoor gig oboe - so avoiding forked F or venting has become even more important! I must say that considering its simplicity, it is actually quite a nice oboe to play (even with its maximum dynamic of mp!)
I have managed to get the Marigaux 901 (a 2003 model) here in Australia, which means I can trial it first. I originally thought I would have to buy from the US, meaning I would have to make an educated decision and stick with it, as many places would not send trials to Australia.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-08-08 07:06
Because of the predominance of flat keys in band-parts, oboists who play in bands frequently use forked-F as their primary F. some bandmasters unwittingly promote this, as well.
Good to know you are not on that particular bandwagon!
Some oboes have a roller on the bottom edge of the RH F key, which makes it easy to transition from F to D without flubbing in the middle. Haven't seen this on recent instruments, however.
And Mike - tell us about the Loree!
J.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-08-08 16:57
Perhaps I will, in another thread...
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-09 13:06
The Marigaux arrived today!!
It is in beautiful condition, the dealer says it is a 2003 but looking at Marigaux's serial numbers it is approximately 2001. No cracks and looks as though it has hardly been played. Even the original reed case is still inside. The woodgrain is gorgeous. I will be trialling this instrument over the next week. It plays like butter and I love the absolute control I have over low note dynamics.
Mike, you were right, my forked F is barely distinguishable from standard F.
So of course I have been busy playing through my band parts and marking in my L for left. Having said that, we are playing Vaughan-Williams English Folk Song Suite (with the beautiful 2nd mvt oboe solo), and for those that know the work, there isn't too much but forked F happening in the 6/8 section of the 1st mvt! F minor is a great key on flute, but truly horrible on oboe.
I have been enjoying reading this forum as a reference, there is an amazing amount of knowledge and experience out there.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-09 13:18
In the 2nd movement of the Vaughan-Williams, make sure YOU get to play the solo and the solo cornet player shuts the **** up!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-10 07:35
My partner is the conductor. I think I'm safe this time!!
I played Armenian Dances in a band a few weeks ago and the 1st cornet played ALL of my solo cues! I was not a happy camper...my ego was not satisfied. :P
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