 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-07-26 16:48
Hi,
I just experienced a week of reed making - with the result of 8 "soggy reeds"
The reeds just don't vibrate well. Same batches of cane.
Reeds made in the spring work just fine!
All attempts of create better vibrations and projections has failed.
Have any of you experienced a similar situation?
First time for me!
The only environmental difference is that the work room is air conditioned. It has a constant humidity of 45-50%. The temperature stays between 78 and 82 degrees.
I did though increase the gouge to .60 from .58. Although, it hard for me to believe this could be the cause of the problem. The reeds are also tied 1 millimeter longer on the staple.
The scrape of the reed is the same.
One more thing - I used a knife rather than a razor blade to shape the cane.
Opinions?
Mark
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-07-26 17:39
I dunno if I will be much help from the reed-making aspect, Mark, since I use reeds that Drew makes for me. But I will tell you that the past week or so, I have had a lot of trouble with the reeds seeming "overwet" after normal soaking and just a little bit of playing. Interesting that you should mention this.
I am attributing this to the enormously high humidity and heat we have been experiencing here in North Carolina. Even though I have used the instrument and reeds only in climate-controlled environments, it is still humid enough that I am perspiring lots more than usual as I play, so I have to think it IS more humid than usual (it is definitely hotter!), and that would affect the reeds, too.
I have dealt with this by just not soaking the reeds much at all -- really, only 30 sec. to one minute. They need hardly any soaking, and then they play fine.
I went through reed trauma here this past winter, too, when it was 'way colder and drier than usual. Picky little buggers, I'm afraid.
Susan
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-07-26 19:06
Try making the top three wraps of thread looser. You can actually do this to a completed reed, in the following manner:
1. coat the thread with nail-varnish, and allow to dry well.
2. using a narrow roll of saran-wrap/cling-film, wrap the reed-blades firmly with at least 20 turns of film.
3. slice through the crossover thread so that it unravels at the top. Let the top 4 or five turns unravel, and cut them off.
4. using only medium tension, rewrap the reed in your normal manner, crossover and wrap down onto the top of the original wrapping.
5. wrap a bit further and tie off.
6. Remove the saran wrap carefully - et voila!
You will be amazed how this will free up the vibrations in your reed.
And anyway - what do you have to lose?
J.
Post Edited (2010-07-26 19:08)
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-07-26 19:21
There were countless episodes of inexplicable reed misbehavior in my years of reed-making. Weather and humidity are, as you acknowledge, precipitating factors. But I do think that thickening your gouge and changing the amount of cane you tie on the staple could very well be relevant factors here.
Unless you have changed your reed shape, the distance of the cane on the staple should not vary. (My teacher always had me set the cane so that the sides would visibly close three turns from the top of the staple. I know there are variations on that maxim, and also it depends upon the thickness of the thread you use.) When your cane is tied to the wrong place on the staple, you will not have optimal vibration.
When you use a thicker gouge, the amount of the reed which is unscraped will vibrate less and/or inhibit vibrations in the scraped area more than before, and the added thickness will absorb additional moisture. If you want to thicken your gauge, you can try a narrower shape to compensate somewhat for the dead weight of the thicker, unscraped areas.
Also, try just dipping the reed in water and letting it sit for @ 30 seconds to prevent oversoaking in a humid environment.
Good luck,
Elizabeth
Post Edited (2010-07-26 21:36)
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Author: bread
Date: 2010-07-27 02:36
Since you said it's the same batch of cane it might just be the cane with weather.
Also maybe since you shaped with a knife it didn't get as close. I've never shaped with a knife so I'm not sure about it but it's possible it wasn't as accurate as a razor blade.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-07-28 05:42
Hi Mark,
I'm afraid that one factor you mentioned -- AIR CONDITIONING -- is a trial for me and my reed-making. I lived in the Middle East and found to my dismay that reeds I made at home (no AC) would get very resistant to vibration in the air-conditioned concert hall. This may have affected the instrument as well as the reed.
As to seasonal changes, you mentioned several factors. I live in too dry a climate to be of any help to you here. I'm just thinking that the humidity+air-condition+change in gouge+change in tool might, all added together, contribute to the problem.
And then again, maybe everything will come right again in a month or two.
Here's hoping!!
GoodWinds
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-08-04 23:39
Update,
Here's a conundrum:
I went back and gouged cane with a wider cane diameter. And The reed I just made vibrates just fine.
The reed opening is good too.
I think the very narrow cane did not sit well in the gouger bed and thus was not gouged properly. The problem reeds used cane that was 10 mm or less. The cane I just used is 10.5 - 10.75.
One more thing - I adjusted the gouger depth to a thinner gouge - which I used before the problems - .57 rather than .59/.60.
I use a single blade gouger.
Comments???? Observations?
Mark
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-08-05 00:45
All this talk about making reeds lately has me wondering, HOW do you learn to make your own reeds? At $13 each for a cheap beginner's reed, I am wondering if it would be worth it for me to learn? What is required (in terms of equipment and materials)? Thank You. You guys have been VERY helpful to me without you even knowing it! Oh and my timing problem that I had earlier this summer is being resolved quickly and in fact, it is helping with my piano lessons too! Amazing how one can cross-over!
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-08-05 02:43
It is wonderful you want to learn how to make reeds.
Beware - it is a costly endeavor - you will need to buy some basic equipment - knife(s), staples, thread, folded and shaped cane etc...........
Then there are hours of work and trial and error ...........................
You need to be compulsive, obsessive, committed and little bit nuts!
If you are motivated and not easily frustrated - then go for it.
In the long run the more control you have over your reeds the easier it is to perform well.
Be warned - I have been making reeds for more than 30 years - and I am still learning - and adjusting - different oboes - different skill level, different awareness of intonation, and more demands on my playing as I have progressed in my abilities .....
Good luck,
Mark
PS: Always in search of the "perfect reed". Does it exist? Or is it a fairytale?
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-08-05 10:42
Here's the most important piece of advice I can give you -
find a teacher.
while there are excellent resources on the web and in books, there is nothing as good as working with a good reed-maker and learning from him/her, one on one. You get instant feedback about what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong, and you don't develop bad habits. Long-term there can be no doubt - lessons are cheaper than the cane you will throw away.
There are oboe equipment suppliers who sell "beginners kits" that contain all you need to get started.
There is an excellent e-book by Joseph Schalita on the web, and another excellent book by David Webber and Ferald Capps that is back on the market (IMHO the best book there is, for the Philadelphia scrape).
Loads of excellent advice including troubleshooting on Martin Schuring's pages.
But get a teacher.
J.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-08-05 16:03
As I have mentioned before, I am a confirmed reed BUYER. I have had enough lessons to learn how to tie, and to scrape, and have actually made a couple of reeds that worked. But since I started the oboe at a late age (59, I think it was . . .), I made the decision to concentrate on playing rather than reed-making.
However, I want to second the endorsement of the Joseph Shalita e-book as a reliable source for advice about reed-making and adjusting. Even though you may end up buying reeds, as I do, you will still need to learn how to tweak them. Shalita's chapter on adjusting has the clearest and most effective advice I've ever seen about that subject.
Susan
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-05 22:23
Shalita's book is ok for a basic guide to making and adjusting the reed. That is about it. All the fine tuning in the end is done by a lot of trial and error. It helps to keep good notes and by process of elimination determine what works best for you, in terms of sound, pitch, response etc.
His adjustment chapter at least guides you where to scrape, but then you ask, how much to scrape, how come the places he tells to scrape doesnt quite do what he says ? You will need a helluva lots of patience, trashing quite a bunch or reeds to get it right.
Then he has these "crow" sound files, which is great, if they work ! Till today, I couldnt get the sound files to work and he has NOT replied his e-mails to help with the issue.
Like ohsuzan has said, maybe is best to concentrate on playing unless you are willing to invest the time and the money on making reeds.
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Author: Gerry L
Date: 2010-08-06 03:42
FYI, I found Linda Walsh's DVD to be very useful -- http://www.oboereedmaking.com/page0.php.
By useful I mean that by following her instructions the first reed I (ever) made not only produced a sound -- which was the first big excitement -- but it was actually quite good! I would have settled for "not terrible", but was pleasantly surprised. I have purchased a few reeds since then, but have found that I now prefer my own, despite the fact that I am still a beginner at it.
Ms. Walsh is from Australia -- you can tell by her lovely Aussie accent -- so the DVD is primarily about making short scrape reeds.
Gerry
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2010-09-04 14:36
You mentioned that you tied the reed on longer. I think this could be part of the problem. I don't know what shape you use. I've use the Gilbert -1N with great success for years. I tie my reeds on at 73 cm.
I also don't know what kind of tube you use either. Tubes make a huge difference. I love the Sierra tubes made by Mark Chudnow. I think they have a velvety sound which I love. I can also recommend the Stevens tubes, which are less pricey than the Sierra tubes. I haven't used Loree tubes in years. I just didn't have much success with them.
Another thing is that you can't sit down and start and finish a reed all on the same day. Less is best. I start reeds, and after playing a few scales, I put them in the case until the next day. I have an order in my reed case, and know which ones are the least broken in. You should play on them a little each day, and not doing major surgery on them.
Also, you must make sure your knife is sharp. Trying to scrape a reed with a dull knife is a disaster in the making.
Hope this helps. I make and sell reeds, and consequently, make many reeds. This works very well for me.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-09-04 15:46
Hi,
I think the problem is twofold:
first - the cane is very stringy and fibrous and soft. (I sent the cane back).
secondly - I experimented with very narrow diameter cane 10mm or less. I don't think the cane gouged probably. Too narrow for the bed of the gouger.
The reeds I now started have a good gut and crow. I am using different cane with a wider diameter.
Mark
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