 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2010-07-24 12:38
I have been doing this for over 5 years now. I have a Fox 333. And ever since I got good enough at it to be able to compensate for pitch with embouchure, I have struggled with my G2 note--it's invariably just a bit flat, and I always have to compensate for it. It's the only note on the whole instrument that does that (other than the normal tendency to flatness of the lower register).
So my question is, is there something about the oboe's construction that's doing this? Or is there some kind of peculiarity in my facial muscles or something, that means that every time G2 rolls around, the note falls into the black hole and comes out flat?
It's finally starting to bug me, because I feel like I ought to be past all that by this point, and it's only this one note. It's flat both to my ear and to my Korg tuner, so I'm not just having a Senior Moment here. I can get it up to pitch, but my point is, I shouldn't have to. All the other notes on the scale don't give me any problems, so why this one?
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-07-24 12:48
It is probably a combination of your instrument (the bore and/or the relevant toneholes) and your reed. There were a few oboes I had (Loree) early in my career on which I had a similar problem and instability on that G. I had no such problem when I moved to Laubin and to Marigaux. And my reeds changed in incrementa, indistinguishably morphingl ways as I made that move, so I cannot isolate the particulars of the attributes of the reeds. Then when I played my Loree top joint on my Marigaux, no G problem. (Possibly my resolution of the G problem also was related to my greater maturity as a player as well.)
I suggest you borrow an oboe or two of different makes than your Fox (and maybe avoid the Loree as well for purposes of this test) and try the G with your current reeds. And similarly, see if you can borrow a reed from a friend who has no such G problem and play it on your Fox.
Elizabeth
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2010-07-24 13:04
It probably isn't the reed because I use reeds from a variety of reedmakers, and it's the same with all of them. It has been an ongoing issue "ever since".
Unfortunately I don't know any other oboists who would have an oboe I could borrow. But that's a good idea.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-07-24 14:37
I had the same thing with my Yamaha 821 and found some Lorees also have saggy Gs - the Fox is based on Loree so may have inherited this 'characteristic' (the Yamaha 821 was a mixture of everything and also had this).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-07-24 14:48
The "G" on my Covey is gorgeous, but the "F" is problematic. I think it's just a trade off. Some notes are going to be better than others, depending on the engineering choices the designer makes.
susan
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-07-24 18:26
Have you tried playing octaves on the Gs and As, without changing your embouchure? Sometime clipping the tiniest possible bit off the tip of the reed clears up the problem of flat octaves on these notes . A slightly too long tip is frequently the culprit, perhaps worse on some oboes than others??? Lois Barton
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-07-24 20:01
How is the G is relation to the entire scale? Does it stick out sharp alone? Or maybe the A is flat etc .... and makes the G sound sharp in relation to it.
Make sure the reed crows C and then play the A (440) to ensure it is in tune (without embouchure adjustments) and other notes ..... -
The culprit may be the G or the other notes.
In any event you can have the oboe tuned and correct the problems.
Mark
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-07-24 20:12
How flat is lower register G? If that's also under, you can have the tonehole enlarged to bring the pitch up (the G tonehole is under the RH1 fingerplate).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Old Oboe
Date: 2010-07-24 21:33
I too have this problem. One teacher I had suggested that I raise my eyebrows when playing G2 to help get it up!
Linda
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-07-24 21:45
And then you have to relax for the A. I found this hard work with my Yamaha until I bought my Howarth S5 and didn't have to worry about it after that. I sold my Yamaha to a Loree player back in 1999 and she's still playing it to this day.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2010-07-25 19:47
Sahl Spano said he often saw this problem on older Lorees but I don't have it on my Loree oboes.
This problem is on both of my English horns(plus Ab) and is fixed only with fingering changes as bocals don't cause this kind of problem. It is also present on my great Bulgheroni oboe d'amore, also fixed by fingering changes. Reed changes don't seem to help.
The reason for this kind of instability or intonation problem is because the unused bottom half of the oboe has a low-Q resonance(due to holes being open) that affects the resonance of the top half to G2. It can increase the amplitude of the G2 if the resonances are the same or it can pull off the frequency of the G2 if the top and bottom resonances are slightly different.
Try the oboe with the bell removed and see what happens.
Note that it does not occur with G1 which follows from the above discussion.
One can speculate that certain instruments avoid this situation by having different bores or hole sizes, placing the lower half resonance at a different frequency. Good luck with this!
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2010-07-25 20:30
Maybe the RH1 finger plate is not opening enough - worth a try before embarking on enlarging the tone hole.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-07-25 20:54
Does a lot of water collect between your 1st and 2nd joints? If there is a sizable gap there it can affect the G tuning. Check there is nothing preventing the two joints from closing completely (e.g., gunge at the base of the top-joint tenon).
And I second the suggestion to check the height of your RH index finger key - it may have been adjusted down to make the con-bar connection more direct.
J.
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2010-07-26 13:21
Thanks for all the great input. I feel much better now that folks are taking it seriously; for the longest time I was afraid it was just "me".
Since it's a plastic oboe, I don't think that getting it retuned is going to be a solution, it's probably something intrinsic in the design.
I will take all suggestions under advisement. Thanks again for the input.
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