 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-07-01 08:15
I am being scolded CONSTANTLY about my timing (both by piano AND oboe instructors). Any suggestions on how to IMPROVE??? I think all along I have been more interested in getting the right NOTE rather than the right TIMING. Man did the oboe teacher "light into" me on Tuesday night! I sure don't like being scolded! They both told me to try NOT to use a metronome on a consistent basis as I might get "addicted" to it.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-07-01 15:33
By timing do you mean rhythm, or do you mean rushing/slowing down?
If you're having difficulty, I'd suggest using Robert Starer's Rhythmic Training book. Nearly every music major has to use it at some point of their undergraduate career, and it can help subdividing and such to prevent rushing and improve rhythmic counting.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-07-01 16:15
That's the first time I've ever heard of any teacher advising against using the metronome.
This is precisely what the metronome is used for--to develop one's internal sense of where the beat is.
All I can say is that if I were your teacher, I would be telling you to use the metronome every time you practice, because it will solve your problem. (And you will not get addicted to it.)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-07-01 16:31
Hi Paula --
My husband has struggled with his (lack of) timing sense for years. He has had problems keeping a steady beat, as well as with rendering rhythmic values correctly. This was a severe and chronic problem which has kept him from enjoying his instrument, and especially from playing well with others.
He finally has found a teacher who has a method for addressing this problem, and he has become *miraculously* better at everything after only a few weeks.
As I understand it, what this teacher is doing is having him take just ONE bar -- a problematic bar -- of a piece, and slowing it way, way, way down (yes, using a metronome). When teacher finds the speed at which hubby can play the bar correctly, he moves the metronome up a tick, until he can play correctly there. And then another tick, and so on. All this is still only on ONE bar.
That almost sounds like voodoo to me, but I can attest that this technique WORKS like nothing else he has ever tried (and believe me, both he and I have tried!). He is playing with much greater accuracy and confidence than I would have ever thought possible.
Susan
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-07-01 19:08
Teaching the "rhythmically challenged" can be very difficult and I understand because I share that problem . For years as a kid I never truly grasped exactly what happened between beats until a teacher made me write out the subdivisions : 1 ee and uh, two ee and uh , etc in 4/4 time if you have sixteenths. Simpler is just l and, two and, three and, four and if its only eigth notes Then it is often still too difficult to coordinate blowing , fingering, lips etc. Next step is to make the student sing the notes , or verbalize them in simple syllables lah-lah- lah etc if they are too shy to sing. Then they can concentrate on the rhythm and not worry about fingering, breath etc. If they can't say/sing it correctly they certainly can't coordinate everything to play it on the oboe.
Exercises all on the same note also simplify the process.
Playing it for the student rarely helps because they just copy by ear and do not understand or apply the rhythmic pattern in a new piece.
I also make them pencil in a vertical slash through each note for each beat-----this visually reinforces where they hear the metronome click . In dotted quarters they can visually see the vertical "fencepost" where the metronome clicks while they are holding the dotted note more than a single beat. L Barton
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-07-01 19:31
I agree. I have NEVER heard of anyone becoming addicted to use of the metronome. Everybody I know, whether they use it a lot or a little, want to do nothing more than TURN THAT ANNOYING THING OFF.
Often, when people have a "natural" skill, they guard it jealously against the notion that the same skill can be methodically learned.* Perhaps your teacher has a "natural" sense of rhythm, never needed to use a metronome, and just can't imagine that it would be useful.
(*I was great at taking SAT tests in high school without practice, and I hated the idea that other people could improve their scores through practice. I preferred to believe that SAT exams just measured inherent intelligence, and that I was smarter than everyone else.)
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-07-01 19:36
I DEFINITELY agree with Jaysne!
Every single teacher I had from high-school to Conservatoire de Montreal to McGill University has stressed the usefulness of the metronome - and it didn't matter if it was the contemporary crowd or the ancient music purists either!
You don't get addicted to it: you learn to relax and build autonmic reflexes thanks to it. With timing, the more you think about it, the harder you try, the worse it gets. It has to become an instinct. You have to determine if your trouble is constancy of the tempo (speeding and/or slowing), if it's rhythm (the math between the beats) or togetherness.
I've always had a bit of a problem with togetherness: this was useful as a conductor, but murder as a performer. I'm always a hair before the beat. I've found that both physical stress and eagerness get in the way. In my case - it might be very different for you - its all about getting to feel comfortable socially with my group and fully relaxed in the body. That is, a good routine of streatching after aerobic-type exercising reduces tension in the muscles and I "jump the gun" a little less.
But, sheez, use the metronome! In fact, you might want to do some extra simple spoon-tapping with the metronome and figure out for yourself what your reflexes are doing.
Good luck!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-07-02 06:14
An interesting metronome exercise (yes, I'm a metronome fan, too):
Once you are comfortable with singing/playing on the beat, with the gnome, start the subdivisions yourself. If the gnome is beating [quarter-notes|crotchets] you should play [eighth-notes|quavers].
Next stage is to play in perfect syncopation to the gnome, that is, [quarter-notes|crotchets] exactly off the beat - this can be very hard, at first!
You will be surprised, nay, amazed at how fast your sense of rhythm will improve as you do this simple exercise.
Once you get the idea, you can do this exercise ANYWHERE there is a steady beat to work against - listening to music, traveling on the train - just settle into the rhythm and start ticking the off-beats, in your head.
Good luck!
J.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-02 07:18
I got one very unorthodix way to improve timing. I had the same problem when I was a kid, starting out.
Get a pair of drumsticks or any good solid sticks to drum. Play along with some rock music, steady rock and drum along with the drummer....you'd be surprised how fast you improve after a few sessions with your favorite rock group.
Even with the metronome, I still had trouble with timing then, but everyone is right, the metronome is the defacto tool to use for timing. Tapping feet is another bad habit. Teachers will scream if they catch you tapping away !
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-07-02 08:49
Thanks to all! I will ask her in 2 weeks why she seems to have such an aversion to the metronome. I don't really LIKE it as it seems to be an ANNOYING "CLICK...CLICK...CLICK", but I know it serves a purpose. Oh, as to the tapping feet, my band instructor in high school HATED to see tapping feet. One particular class period, I suppose he was in a BAD MOOD or just having a bad day, but he TAPED a girl's tapping foot to the floor so she would stop being so obvious about it! She stopped so I guess it worked. I didn't see her tap her feet any more for the rest of that year and the next.
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Author: ceri
Date: 2010-07-02 19:41
I'm not sure that foot tapping is always bad.
My teacher plays professionally and I have never seen him tap his foot in a professional context.
Last year I took along to my lesson the Mathias oboe concerto. It turned out that he had never seen or heard the piece before and preceeded to sight-read it. He did so tapping his foot very loudly. When I commented on this afterwards, he said it was a way of maintaining a stable pulse in a piece with tricky rhythms and he did so frequently when working on a new piece at home.
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Author: geminioboe
Date: 2010-07-02 23:46
Here's a little alternative to the tapping foot you can try:
Try keeping time with your big toe. I have been playing clarinet/saxophone professionally for 25 years and I have always done this. It must be pretty subtle, because nobody has ever said anything about it. (And I have played with some pain in the neck musicians. They WOULD HAVE said something at one point or another)
Give it a try. As long as you do not wear open toed shoes to your lessons, your instructor will never know.
I can't figure out the opposition to the metronome. When I played in a cruise line orchestra, we used a "click track" for the main shows. We wore headphones and part of the music was on tape and the rest was provided by the orchestra. We constantly got a metronome beat through the headphones.
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Author: joepie
Date: 2010-07-03 10:48
The sound of the metronome gets to my nerves sometimes as well - not always.
I bought a tactile metronome, that has a small vibrating clip, so you can feel it ticking rather than hearing it. It feels much like a cell phone .
Supposedly it helps you internalize the rhythm more easily than an audible metronome and I do like it a lot.
Joepie
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-07-03 11:52
Joepie....That sounds like an EXCELLENT alternative! Where did you buy such a device? Was it at your local music store OR did you order it on-line? Thank You very much for your help! Paula
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Author: joepie
Date: 2010-07-03 12:23
I got it online from Germany, as I live in the Netherlands. I remember it didn't come cheap, but fortunately I forgot the price. It will probably be a lot cheaper for you as it's made in the US. It is made by Peterson and my model is the Body Beat.
You can find info on http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=132. The manual can be downloaded somewhere on the page, so you can check if it meets your requirements.
You can actually hear it vibrate quite well when you're not playing your instrument, but no so much when you're playing. Sometimes I wear it when surfing the internet, just to get a better feeling for rhythms and it worked out very well for me while studying and my rhythm improved while not using it during class.
The metronome works like forever on a 9 volt battery. It does feel a bit plasticy, especially the battery cover, but I never felt I would break it.
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-07-03 19:08
This pulsing metronome is intriguing---and I believe it will work. I have often noticed that when a student is having trouble following the usual clicking sound of a metronome, I gently tap their shoulder, and they very quickly get the rhythm . According to the ad for the "Body Beat" a tactile impulse is perceived differently by the brain and more quickly internalized. I priced them on-line at several locations and they seem to run about $99, which is a bit high for many students. LBarton
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-03 22:56
Peterson Body beat is an excellent device. Used to have double sided tape and stuck it at the back of a Jackson reverse dinky electric guitar and have everyone sync to the same beat with multiple Petersons, and we never went off beat. If you go down to your local "Guitar Center", you can actually negotiate a bit from the $99 list price, usually about 10%....at least it covers the sales tax.
Rock musicians are terrible at timing, that is why we always need a good drummer....even the drummer can sometimes drum off beat when he is over enthusiastic with a song..... so the Peterson is a great back up and works especially when playing paid gigs !
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-07-04 01:53
THANK YOU!!!! That looks like EXACTLY the answer to my problem! I will check it out at Stu's Music next week.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-04 02:01
In MD, Guitar Centers are available at:
http://gc.guitarcenter.com/locations/cities.cfm?state=Maryland
Low price guarantee.
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Author: joepie
Date: 2010-07-04 11:15
Hi LBarton,
You can easily add another 30-50% to the price if it is to be shipped to Europe, as VAT will be added again plus a cruel import tax. That does make the price a little steep.
Evenso, my consideration was that I pay this price many times over every year on tuition fees, but it allows me to work on a very important skill. Fortunately it worked out fine, and it was well worth the price. As is the tuition .
A while ago I considered to buy another metronome. This one is more visual, it works with lights and it shows things like rests! Check it out on www.rhythmsource.com. This metronome is quite a bit more expensive than the Body Beat, but you can fully program it I believe. I can imagine it helps out when studying a particularly difficult passage, but it probably is way over the top.
Have any of you heard of this metronome before?
Price will always be an important consideration, but I do love music.
Post Edited (2010-07-04 13:34)
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